Snorkel In or Out?

[DeepThought]

The MAIN reason for NOT spitting your snorkel is that SHOULD you black out, which normally happens close to the surface, you will still be able to breathe. Very few spearo's have dive buddies watching them 100% of the time.

But that will work only if you black out on the surface or after you exhaled enough air to clear the snorkel (shallower than 1 meter). The SWB range is much greater. And a few other things can be f---ed up with that - your body might not even try to breath is it'll think it is still submerged, snorkel can still have some water inside, waves can fill it, you can go up with your face upwards and so on.
Ofcourse, to each his own 2 cents.

 

[Alison]

Now this is just my opinion so keep your hair on rofl
As this is supposed to be in the context of spearfishing, I believe that the sensible spearo shouldnt risk blackout in the first place; as has been pointed out very few spearo's have the undivided attention of their buddy unlike freedivers and as such they shouldnt push it that far, so the blackout issue should be only academic and the big question is, do the bubbles scare the fish
As I said, just my opinion but hell is any fish worth your life?

 

[octopus]

...so keep your hair on...

That is not as easy as said for man of my age.

Now, let's assume you are monofinning on the surface, with your hands in front on the float, in the pool, having (front) snorkel in your mouth, holding your breath. And you blackout. What happens next? Can you recover on your own?

 

[miles]

Hiya

As this is supposed to be in the context of spearfishing, I believe that the sensible spearo shouldnt risk blackout in the first place; as has been pointed out very few spearo's have the undivided attention of their buddy unlike freedivers and as such they shouldnt push it that far, so the blackout issue should be only academic and the big question is, do the bubbles scare the fish

Thats true, but i can recall quite a few times when a large fish stays jusssssst out of range and you get so engrossed with that fish that you tend to overstay your welcome at the bottom!! Pretty easy to get yourself into some major hassles!!

Regards
miles

 

[guide1]

Now this is just my opinion so keep your hair on
As this is supposed to be in the context of spearfishing, I believe that the sensible spearo shouldnt risk blackout in the first place; as has been pointed out very few spearo's have the undivided attention of their buddy unlike freedivers and as such they shouldnt push it that far, so the blackout issue should be only academic and the big question is, do the bubbles scare the fish
As I said, just my opinion but hell is any fish worth your life?

yep its very silly really as its only fish(im afraid im guilty aswell), but theres been times when the fish has tangled me or when ive knocked myself on the head with rocks on the way up. but again just my 2cents people should do what there comfortable with.

 

[Alison]

Yeah yeah! I know, or you could get gripped by a giant clam with a rubber fetish

 

[guide1]

lol yeah or a crocadile (just heard on the news a guy was taken up north diving) *insert australian accent* Crikey!, or even that damn squid!! theres been a few times ive been at 3000' and had one look me over, and please dont get me started about those damn mermaids.

 

[naiad]

Now, let's assume you are monofinning on the surface, with your hands in front on the float, in the pool, having (front) snorkel in your mouth, holding your breath. And you blackout. What happens next? Can you recover on your own?

I guess it should be possible, but it doesn't sound like a great idea. If you are going to push the limits, you need a responsible buddy.

Lucia

 

[Groupermadness]

Hiya



Thats true, but i can recall quite a few times when a large fish stays jusssssst out of range and you get so engrossed with that fish that you tend to overstay your welcome at the bottom!! Pretty easy to get yourself into some major hassles!!

Regards
miles

Never a true'er word spoken in Jest, its happened many a time and will hapen again , that is what living is all about , trying to end it in the most dramatic way possable.

 

[octopus]

@Lucia

I am gratefull for the advice, but that is only hypothetical situation in order to clarify the potential positive side of having the sornkel in.

 

[John A]

Been free diving since a kid (1969??) and to this day I always keep my snorkel in my mouth. In 1975 my scuba instructor taught me the displacement method to clear and I have used it since. I also use a (vintage) Farallon snorkel with larger "bites" that I find extremely comfortable. I have tried taking it out, but hate it flopping around on the way up (or down for that matter)

John

 

[Alison]

that is what living is all about , trying to end it in the most dramatic way possable.

Are you serious!!
Life is the most precious gift we have and when the time comes that you think you're going to loose it you'll hang on kicking and screaming! Trust me I know!

 

[Soul Deep]

A general concern from people on this thread so far seems to be the bubbles argument, I have never come across that being an issue when I have submerged, in fact the sounds of bubbles on descent (very limited from my snorkel) and rocks clicking etc seem only to help attract Mullet, Mackerel, Bass, Pollock and Wrasse!

People seem to have varied views on why it is safer to take a snorkel out. The argument for a BO and mouthway being open to the elements is a convincing one, but I still stand to be pursuaded that after 20 years of Skin Diving I am going to suddenely suffer this problem without I push my limits in an attemp to improve (I keep this for freediving).

John A in all your time skin diving have you ever suffered a BO or do you ever push yourself to "dangerous" limits while spearing?

Groupermaddness and Alison, something to be said for both your views. Life is precious, and there just isn't enough minutes in an hour ... enough years in our lives, but while respecting that, living life to the edge and experiencing the rawness of reality makes you feel more alive, and I wouldn't trade back my near misses for anything

So anyway, back to the debate, and it seem that most of you do infact remove your snorkel at some point in the dive. I am going to try this next time I am spearin to see if I can get used to it. In the meantime I would still love to hear an argument that convinces me it is actually "risk%" dangerous while working within personal limits...

 

[Fondueset]

I'll reiterate - havingthe snork out just makes me feel calmer. I found this out way before I heard any of the technical stuff. It's interesting.

(I used the displacement method also - still do with my Omer zoom snork If i've not dumped it- but my impulse II - which I use alot in rough water - just doesn't care )

I'm going to experiment with having the toungue against the roof of the mouth and not - that is a point in pranayama and qigong. I wonder if Eric F has any observations.

 

[John A]

....John A in all your time skin diving have you ever suffered a BO or do you ever push yourself to "dangerous" limits while spearing?...

No BO, although there have been those times I have been VERY HAPPY to reach the surface. As to "pushing the limits" I tend to be very conservative when spearfishing, I push harder when just having fun. But don't get me wrong, I am not stating that my way is safer, just for me more comfortable.

John

 

[Bill]

Let me add my 2 cents worth. In the 40s snorkels were an expensive toy we couldn't afford. Then came better snorkels and the Farallons. You put a custom fitted mouthpiece in and didn't move it for hours. Someone decided that bubbles scared fish (in practice it works the other way just as often), so we learned to inhale the air on the way down. If you had to hold your nose, it was easier to spit out the snorkel, but after the Skin Diver article (early 70s?) we plugged back in on the way up and started an early exhale to allow a quicker inhale. Since it was close to the surface you had to 'practice' it all the time or you wouldn't remember on the dives that you were pushing. This, combined with undoing your weight belt on deep dives, saved some lives. It's hard to deny the facts when you wake up on the surface with no weight and no memory after half way up.
The free diving courses all teach spitting the snorkel and I think they are right, but for Hawaiin spear fishing, with so much lead that you barely float with full lungs, I'm not so sure. A long time ago we were taught to limit the lead to allow positive buoyancy at FRC. Still seems like a good idea. When hunting in shallow water, don't fill your lungs.
Diving the 'ropes' makes it simple. Ventilation on your back, snorkel clipped to the float, less weight, trained safety at 15 to 20 meters and starting the exhale early (how early would be a great topic for discussion). If you can hit the surface, fill your lungs and hold the air for even a few seconds, you will be 'awake' in 15-20 seconds. Forget the weight belt, everybody does.
Aloha
Bill

 

[cdavis]

In or out?? Depends on what I'm doing. Line diving or deep sight seeing, I usually spit it out on the way up. I've been convinced of the safety arguments. Spearfishing, my Farallon stays in my mouth, period. Snorkel out means I'll lose sight of the fish every time when I go to put it back in.

I've never BOed and haven't had a samba in at least 30 years (that I remember), credit lousy CO2 tolerence. However, I've seen two BOs, one spearfishing. It does adjust your attitude.

Connor

 

[Murat]

or you can take it out and hold in your hand

 

[Soul Deep]

Thanxs Bill... Cool, the history of Snorkel in one paragraph

One question regarding that paragraph R.E. undoing your weight belt on a deep dive, didn't that become costly I guess you mean that you undo the clip and then hold onto it, so if you BO you naturally let go and float up? If so I like that idea, will get into the habit of that if deep or pushing myself.

Apart from the mentioned displacement method I haven’t thought about when to start breathing out on my ascent while using a snorkel. In freediving I have had two different views so far. CIPA in Nice appears to favour total exhale in the last inches before exit so that on reaching the surface the first action is to breathe in fresh air (apparently helps towards preventing BO). The UK AIDA trainer I know prefers exhale once surfaced then a breath (easier to watch people for safety reasons I guess).

 

[naiad]

In freediving I think most people exhale on the surface. Sometimes I have seen freedivers exhaling in the water even for static. This is scary to watch, but it must work well for them. Not sure about the safety aspect though...

Lucia