Spearfishing - are we under threat?

[artiz]

I think you will find it is "a" not "the" European fisheries commission adviser.
It is not a position with any power, purely PR related, but don't let facts get in the way of a good bit of paranoia rofl

I was looking for constructive thoughts rather than weasel nit-picking from an odd forum stalker! Besides you seem to deliberately miss the point by a mile again! Also PR is exactly what the majority of spearo's in the UK don't have... unless you think current representation from the BSA is suitable PR for the future of spearfishing in the UK?

 

[Yeti]

I think you will find it is "a" not "the" European fisheries commission adviser.
It is not a position with any power, purely PR related, but don't let facts get in the way of a good bit of paranoia rofl

Easy tiger! Takin no sides in this. I'm guessing it is in good humour but he is (in his own way) trying to benefit/inform us all. How its presented may rub you up the wrong way but everyone is entitled to their opinion as am I........there are some valid points to be pondered.

 

[artiz]

Easy tiger! Takin no sides in this. I'm guessing it is in good humour but he is (in his own way) trying to benefit/inform us all. How its presented may rub you up the wrong way but everyone is entitled to their opinion as am I........there are some valid points to be pondered.

You are right of course so probably a good idea for me to say that personally I am not actually opposed to MPA's, which Cousteau Jnr has been brought in to advise on. There is even recent research here to suggest that MPA's may be beneficial to spearfishing. Moreover the point is that we are misrepresented by senior members of a National Association which despite recently announced changes continues to endorse (by proxy) killing fish in the name of sport?
Just doesn't bode well for the future...particularly for my son?

 

[Yeti]

.......count to ten.....go away and think about it before working out on the keyboard.......then post. simples! ....still thinking! these things can't be rushed

 

[foxfish]

I think all forms of fishing are under threat but, mainly from commercial overfishing!
As spear fishermen, we are such a minuscule minority compared to rod fisherman, I really dont see any government really considering us as a threat to the overall fish stocks. not before the rod guys come under attack anyway!
Of course that is just my personal views but at the rate the fish are declining from our oceans there wont be any fish left to ban us from shooting in the next ten years!
I can tell you that over the 40 years I have been harvesting the sea, the realism & factual nature of what we have now, compared to then, is beyond shocking - it is a desperate situation!
Perhaps the guns we use are in more danger of legislation...

 

[grantl]

I read a research paper last year ( cannot recall source) that was examining the existing Scottish fish stocks and the commercial fishing pressure on them.
It was depressing to say the least and the forecast was that stocks would completely crash within the next 30 years but much sooner if harvesting rates were sustained. Technology development is ensuring every last fish will be hoovered up.
Traditionally non commercial species are now being targeted ie. Pout being advertised on TV by a local supermarket as an exotic 'new' species for people that don't know better to buy because their told by the telly to buy it and its cheap.
As Foxfish says we as a group are absolutely inconsequential to any conservation considerations.
Spearos ,I guess, will be lumped in with anglers who will likely have bag limits imposed for many species. Maybe not a bad thing really in my opinion.
I think your point Artiz about a National organisation misrepresenting spearfishing may have validity, however as far as Im concerned Im not represented by any organisation personally.
I also think its highly likely in our nanny state that guns will fall under a licence scheme, possibly more likely with pneumatics as in Ireland. Again maybe not the end of the world for our sport but just a bit more red tape/hassle I would think.

 

[artiz]

I think your point Artiz about a National organisation misrepresenting spearfishing may have validity, however as far as Im concerned Im not represented by any organisation personally.

The big problem for me is that senior/controlling members of the BSA do actually represent us at the highest MPA stakeholder levels whether we like it or not. We have also been through all this before see this thread from 2010, and also the BSA member who represents/represented spearfishing in the South-West's Finding Sanctuary working group.
So as far as the Government, the general public, legislation... everyone basically... is concerned we are all represented by a mass fish murdering national organisation who think they're doing a great job in the name of spearfishing in the UK. (I won't bother mentioning the word 'hypocritical' or laughable either!)
Recipe for future disaster as far as I can see?

 

[headhunter]

The big problem for me is that senior/controlling members of the BSA do actually represent us at the highest MPA stakeholder levels whether we like it or not. We have also been through all this before see this thread from 2010, and also the BSA member who represents/represented spearfishing in the South-West's Finding Sanctuary working group.
So as far as the Government, the general public, legislation... everyone basically... is concerned we are all represented by a mass fish murdering national organisation who think they're doing a great job in the name of spearfishing in the UK. (I won't bother mentioning the word 'hypocritical' or laughable either!)
Recipe for future disaster as far as I can see?

Do you think a spearfisherman using the term "fish murderers" to describe other spearfishermen could be seen as slightly hypocritical?

 

[grantl]

So as far as the Government, the general public, legislation... everyone basically... is concerned we are all represented by a mass fish murdering national organisation

Mmh - perhaps a little emotive there Artiz?

Having looked at the organisations aims and objectives I don't particularly have any issue with them.
They claim to be an organistion that isn't just about competitive fishing and aim to improve the image of spearfishing and promote sustainable hunting. I'm not sure I agree that's possible at all if traditional spearfishing comps are organised ( do they run comps under different, more sustainable, rules now ?)http://www.underwaterfishing.co.uk/
I'm not sure I see a problem tbh ? You obviously have a different opinion ( which is totally fine) as these threads always go from the question of 'Are we under threat' to openly having a go at a constituted organisation about their direction/ focus.

I have absolutely no firsthand knowledge of BSA but have picked up on the negative sentiment from you and others and no doubt there is valid reason for this.

I think Mart suggested inviting Steven Mullineaux to contribute to the debate and I really think this would be interesting to hear first hand what their strategy is and tell us how (if) they have modernised and incorporated sustainable fishing within their organisation?

So, back to the question. Are we under threat - Yes, but not from simply MCAs./ Euro legislation.
Our numbers are so insignificant I don't believe we can change policy but we could have a say if that's what was desired.
Seems to me that the BSA is there already - perhaps it could accommodate a 'social' spearfishing section for those that aren't interested in comps . Their stated aims and objectives aren't a million miles away from those I might sign up to as a regular Spearo? ( that's not to say I would!)

For me personally I don't believe there are enough Spearos around to make a jot of difference to policy or legislation decisions.
Where an organisation may make a valid contribution is in the education of Spearos to encourage safety and knowledge/respect for their quarry, accessible buddy networks etc.
As Foxfish said it would be so easy for a serious accident to really cause a knee jerk reaction and put us under the nose of authorities etc. and perhaps this should really be of more concern than many of those raised already?

 

[Yeti]

anyone going fishing next week? ........... TAXI!

 

[grantl]

Taxi? Aquaquad for me mate

 

[Yeti]

Seriously though....just my thoughts......I think any legal like legislative legislation legislating a true distinction of 'pleasure/recreational' fishing is going to be a major headache for all concerned :head those subjected to it and those trying to police it.

From conversations I have had with 'ill informed' or simply 'not informed' folk, some perceive line fishing and nets as more civilised and I've even heard the word 'humane' (??) I try and keep off my soap box and educate them in a way they might relate to Sometimes works, sometimes it's like knocking on wood but getting angry just poors petrol on the fire they are trying to burn you with in the first place. (I've only once told a screaming mad angry scouse mrs troll that her eyes must be painted on and the likes of her should not be allowed to breed - sorry guilty! yeah I know, but it was only the once and she caught me on a bad day! and she was innnnnnncredibly stupid! :waterwork :mute.)

anyway back on topic...

The mucky business of actually despatching what you want to eat has been sanitised from society to the point I think where some folk view us as somewhere between that survival guy on TV and flippin Gollum!

I'm not one to judge but nets are grim as far as I'm concerned . Just my view. I do however regard line fishing in a similar vein as spearfishing. As we have the choice to be selective on what we shoot , they are simply selective at the point they land and see the fish. As far as I can see from what is being brought to light, at some point we are going to need friends, and in the right places to be even heard.

My thoughts?? as Miss World I would save the dolphins and strive for world peace! ?? sh!t no! wrong thoughts !! sorry! try again.....

If you (me) don't want to have a stand up fight about it, all I can suggest is:

• 
  Keep trying to educate where you can
  Try and keep the peace with other folk who generally just want the same - to be left in peace to just fish
  Try and think about how things you say or photograph (and as good as spread them around the globe) might be perceived by less informed folk
  Make a good impression where you can
  and last of all if you don't want the hassle of going toe to toe with bureaucracy (one 'Z' from the truth) try and help lend a voice to those that do on your behalf, even if it may rub you up the wrong way from time to time.

yours

'bored with too much time on their hands staring down at the sea watching the pretty waves' :hmm

:wave

.......and I ordered bullet points! wheres my bloody bullet points!

 

[artiz]

Good words guys with even a reasoned comment from headmunter at last!
The thing is I did actually join the BSA in December and participated in a discussion with a subcommittee and eventually the decision makers themselves (committee members)... which may turn out to be ongoing but doubtful?
I clearly did/do not represent spearo's from Deeperblue who in the main don't seem to give a toss anyway and I was certainly never going to change any minds of the competition spearo's who actually run the BSA either, so all in all a waste of £15, but at least I put my money where my mouth is.
For me our small number and unique practices could actually be an advantage to MPA's, MCZ's etc, in a monitoring/custodian/gamekeeper capacity working directly with the management/science of these sites which will only become more widespread and larger in size. We can hardly achieve any thing like this whilst our ONLY representative body continues to organise and promote mass pillage of our seas on a regular basis misrepresenting the majority of us at the most influential levels?
I want my 15 year old son to be able to do what I presently do for his family in the future, which is provide free range food responsibly and sustainably taken, dispatched and enjoyed, when and where I like. In return I want to provide invaluable monitoring information like video, photo's, stats, observations etc which could not be obtained from anywhere or anyone else. I also want to be part of actively looking after the underwater coastal environment which most of us already do.
I don't want us to be just 'stakeholder's' because we clearly have the capacity to be so much more. I also think its more than possible to make ourselves integral & invaluable to the whole conservation, sustainability, MPA process and if we collectively got up off our arses we could achieve it with a bit of intelligent representation which is devoid of hypocrisy?
I'm still looking forward to that retirement 'shack' on the coast where I can live out my last years in the abject happiness of self caught support?
Yes of course it's all a bit self-serving, narcissistic, paranoid, emotive, pie in the sky or whatever you want to criticise me for but the alternative is doing nothing and ending up, after progressive stealthy legislation, with the end of spearfishing in the UK within the next 5-10 years?

“By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail.” ― Benjamin Franklin

 

[Mr. X]

...I want my 15 year old son to be able to do what I presently do for his family in the future, which is provide free range food responsibly and sustainably taken, dispatched and enjoyed, when and where I like. ...

Amen to that.

Going back to Foxfish's original question. It occurs to me that I don't currently feel that spearfishing is anymore at threat than any other form of fishing - although commercial overfishing is troubling and could spoil it for everyone, not least themselves. In response to our protests over careless drafting of legislation by the EU a few years ago, they wrote in a specific exemption for recreational spearfishing. At the time I thought that was the sloppier, less desirable way of the two main options for fixing their unintended ban. However, as a side benefit, the EU have effectively considered spearfishing and recognized it as an acceptable/desirable, low impact form of fishing.

Anyway spearfishing is a very "European activity", something shared among many member countries. If the EU were to ban spearfishing, no fish stocks would be saved - and there would be no spearos left to campaign for conservation of fish stocks - but companies, particularly manufacturers in France, Spain, Italy & Greece would suffer. Most of the smaller companies would no doubt fail/close completely.

Of course, 5 years from now, the UK might not longer be in the EU and/or an Independent Scotland might be in the EU...

 

[artiz]

I just wish I shared your confidence Mr X!.. time will tell!

 

[foxfish]

Well at least you can say "I told you so" God forbid!

 

[grantl]

an Independent Scotland might be in the EU...

OMG but sounds like a more frightening & real threat to me than any perceived increased threat to spearfishing !!

 

[artiz]

Well at least you can say "I told you so" God forbid!

For anyone else interested in 'staying ahead of the game' a good place to start is the Marine Policy journal where you can normally only read their abstracts (summaries), however this link allows you to read the actual papers which normally cost £25 each unless you have academic access. Many of the researchers who submit to this journal are funded by the European Fisheries Fund and will therefore have a direct influence on future legislation in Europe and the UK.

 

[Yeti]

an Independent Scotland might be in the EU...

haha!

OMG but sounds like a more frightening & real threat to me than any perceived increased threat to spearfishing !!

hahaha! rofl mate! you gunna be on the soft cheese and frankfurtas before you know it!! and haggis would be hunted to extinction!!

 

[artiz]

Originally Posted by artiz
The big problem for me is that senior/controlling members of the BSA do actually represent us at the highest MPA stakeholder levels whether we like it or not. We have also been through all this before see this thread from 2010, and also the BSA member who represents/represented spearfishing in the South-West's Finding Sanctuary working group.
So as far as the Government, the general public, legislation... everyone basically... is concerned we are all represented by a mass fish murdering national organisation who think they're doing a great job in the name of spearfishing in the UK. (I won't bother mentioning the word 'hypocritical' or laughable either!)
Recipe for future disaster as far as I can see?

Do you think a spearfisherman using the term "fish murderers" to describe other spearfishermen could be seen as slightly hypocritical?

On further reflection headhunter is absolutley right here and I would sincerely like to apologize for this stupid, emotive and ill-conceived comment. It wasn't thought out properly and came from frustration after being part of a BSA sub-committee discussing the future of spearfishing which I childishly felt had not gone my way.
Please accept my sincere apologies to anyone reading this thread and in particular the senior members of the BSA, please also be assured that it will not happen again.

Sincere Regret & Regards