Spearfishing minus apnea. Anybody else?

[Woohoo]

I made the hard decision recently that despite really loving spearfishing and it being my favourite thing to do right now, that I was never going to persue the apnea side of the sport.

Basically I always swim alone and I have a very strong (perhaps irrational) feeling that if I was constantly trying to improve bottom times and depth it would only be a matter of time before I wouldn't make it home. As a 39 year old with a family I've decided that isn't a risk I can justifiably take.

Right now I spend most of my time at the surface and when I do dive down it's to no deeper than 5-7 meters and I return as soon as my normal instinct to breath tells me to. I'm fairly sure this is the way it'll always be.

I was just wondering if there were any others who have enjoyed the sport for long periods of time in a similar manner? Or does literally everybody think that without depth and long bottom times the sport is pointless? I should still be able to catch pretty much everything that everybody else catches shouldn't I? It will just be harder and require more patience.

It doesn't really matter obviously. Just curious to know if I was alone in this approach to spearfishing.

 

[Broseidon]

In the UK, I catch pretty much all my big fish in shallow water - I'm talking like 5 - 6 feet of water. At that depth, fishing from the surface is perfectly possible - I love creeping through shallow weed and being ultra-stealthy - I like doing deep dives from time to time but shallow fishing is my favourite by far as it's safer, really chilled and I can fish all day.

My personal preference is to sit on the bottom for 1.25 to 2 minutes, as I think you see more fish but this is just my preference - very often when the weed is thick or it's too shallow, I shoot from the surface. I used to think it was somehow cheating to shoot from the surface but lets be serious, if you're in the water, having fun and keeping safe, go for it!

With all dangerous hobbies, you need to take the ego out if it - I used to obsess about breath holds and depth, since I chilled out a bit, I enjoy my diving more and catch way more fish.

 

[Woohoo]

Thanks for that. That's exactly what it's about for me, a safe, enjoyable hobby that's great for keeping fit and puts the freshest fish possible on the dinner table. I guess for a lot of people the danger is a big part of the attraction, but at my age I'm simply not wired like that anymore.

I see a lot of videos where divers are on the bottom but the fish are above them, actually nearer the surface than they are the diver, which made me think that depth wasn't as important as I originally thought. Nice to hear you catch big fish in shallower water, that's just what I wanted to hear.

 

[Mr. X]

Hi Woohoo, that is pretty much the same conclusion I came to some years ago. I almost always dive alone - although often have folk on shore. However, I have some good news for you. If you dive a lot you should find things improve naturally & comfortably without pushing things.

Usually the first "drops" in a diving session are pretty rubbish, so I try to get those over with fairly quickly and then I settle back, relax and just get on with spearfishing. During the course of a dive session of several hours (say 1.5-4 hours), you will start to relax, loosen up and your dive times (& depths where appropriate) will tend to improve as things become more automatic/subconcious.

Fine-tuning your weightbelt helps reduce the effort required to dive. It seems a little counter-intuitive but more weight is needed for shallower diving. If you get the weight right, you won't need as much effort to get down & stay down.

The biggest improvement comes, I think, over the course of the season. If you start diving early in the season, most likely you won't see that many fish but it will give you a valuable opportunity to get your kit & processes & procedures sorted out and streamlined. By late August-Nov, your bottom times (& depths) will likely have improved significantly without you really noticing. This happened to me, the only reason I became concious of it was that a stranger on shore had been watching me and commented that I had been down for a long time (I had spotted some big mullet hiding in small clumps of weed as I approach the beach).

If you look after yourself & keep at it, you could have 20 or 30 more years of spearing to look forward to - perhaps more (e.g. the late, great Peter Crawford, 13x British Champion) if you are keen. So keep a positive attitude - "the future's so bright, I gotta wear shades."

 

[Mr. X]

BTW I agree with what Broseidon says but I would add that there is also good spearing to be had below 12 feet - often laying, hidden on the bottom looking up for fish to swim over above you. That tends to get easier later in the season.

 

[Woohoo]

Great insight as always Mr X, cheers.

The thing is with me it's not really an ability issue. I have no interest whatsoever holding my breath for 2/3 minutes plus. Probably never could even if I wanted to. I would only really like to be doing something similar to Broseidon but not even for as long as he does. Just lying on the bottom in shallow water for a minute at a time would be more than enough to keep me happy, and I'd be more than capable of doing it with a little practice. I just still don't feel comfortable doing even that from a risk point of view.

What I need to do is fully understand the risks involved and take it from there. I'm very much a law of averages kind of person and I'm not sure I fully know what those numbers are. For example, I read somewhere that it's impossible to have a shallow water black out if you aren't going deeper than 20 foot. The reason given was "you could never significantly change the partial pressure of O2 in your blood on dives shallower than 20 feet". Now is that true? If it was it would be one less thing to worry about that's for sure.

What level of risk as a probability, would you guess a person with no underlying medical conditions is taking when they stay under at 12 feet for no longer than a minute at a time? If I knew the answer to that, and it wasn't significantly high, perhaps I could push myself a bit further.

 

[J Campbell]

A while back I read some freedive instructors opinion that he could teach any normally healthy adult to hold their breath for 3 minutes - and I myself believe this is reasonable. So, if you are a normally healthy adult, and well rested between each dive, and take a deep breath, and you are just laying on the bottom as you say, then I'd pretty much guarantee that you are safe from blackout.

 

[J Campbell]

Also, after sitting on the bottom for 1 minute, how do you feel, what is the level of your urge to breath? Are you dizzy and seeing stars? - or (more likely) do you feel a slight urge to breath but otherwise feel OK?

 

[Woohoo]

So, if you are a normally healthy adult, and well rested between each dive, and take a deep breath, and you are just laying on the bottom as you say, then I'd pretty much guarantee that you are safe from blackout.

I like the sound of that! I did wonder if my fears were slightly irrational and not backed up by probability. I'm happy to take risks in the same way say a skydiver does. A risk where something could always go wrong but statistically isn't very likely to. It sounds like that's what you think 1 minute bottom times at 12 feet equates to.

Also, after sitting on the bottom for 1 minute, how do you feel, what is the level of your urge to breath? Are you dizzy and seeing stars? - or (more likely) do you feel a slight urge to breath but otherwise feel OK?

Makes perfect sense and what I think Mr X was alluding to as well. If my bottom times get naturally longer without me trying and without me fighting the urge to breathe any more than before, then the risks shouldn't have got any bigger. I guess it's as simple as staying well inside the level of what your body is naturally capable of doing and will do happily. I think most free divers force their bodies to do things that it doesn't really want to do, and that's where the risks come in.

Feel like I've put the risks of what I want to do in to a more accurate perspective thanks to the comments on this thread. Which means next time I dive I'll be a lot more relaxed about spending time under water. Cheers.

 

[foxfish]

I like this conversion, in my case I was swimming in the sea from a very young age, by the age of 11-12 I had my first wet suit & was diving with a hand spear and catching fish.
I have never been a deep diver, perhaps 30-35'. If possible I prefer to hunt where I can see the bottom and that means 10-20' most of the time.
I guess that after 50 years of practice I have quite good stamina & breath hold but, I never really push it while under the water ... I never have!
I do push myself while surface swimming, I have never been a fan of long fins but I can swim for miles with my short stiff fins
However I do wonder that if I had lived in a different part of the world, the Med for instance, would I have been a deep diver?

 

[J Campbell]

Woohoo, have you ever practiced statics, or done tables? If you haven't, they are good way to teach you your limits. For example if you can get 3 minutes then that will teach you that your 1 min lurking on the bottom is pretty safe. Of course always practice with a buddy, or do them dry.

 

[Woohoo]

Woohoo, have you ever practiced statics, or done tables? If you haven't, they are good way to teach you your limits. For example if you can get 3 minutes then that will teach you that your 1 min lurking on the bottom is pretty safe. Of course always practice with a buddy, or do them dry.

I haven't mate. I've heard them mentioned on here countless times but never looked in to it. To be honest though, if it involves some of the full on stuff I've read on here like holding your breath while having painful contractions and the like then I'll probably give it a miss.

It's that more extreme, aggressive side of free diving /spearfishing that would end up killing me I reckon. I'm just going to let my body tell me what it's happy doing and take it from there. Which thanks to the replies on this thread, I now realise is probably quite a bit more than I felt comfortable doing before. I think next time I dive my irrational paranoia about blacking out will be a thing of the past.

 

[cdavis]

Hi Woohoo, good questions.

On BO in less than 20 ft: sorry, its very very possible if you are pushing things, personal experiance. I was doing something stupid in about 10 ft of water and was lucky to get away with stars and tunnel vision. Another few seconds( a few feet deeper) and I'd have been history.

That said, what you suggest, one minute dives without a lot of strenious exercise during them, is pretty safe. It should be pretty much impossible for a reasonably healthy diver, with a reasonable breathup, reasonable effort before and during the dive, to BO in that time. The problem is "reasonable" The exceptions can get you, but the risk is low if you are "reasonable".

As Mr X said, gettting your weighting right so the trip down is very easy but not so heavy that the trip up is a strain, is a large part of the secret of easy, long dives

 

[Peter123]

What a great discussion! I never though about shallow Spearfishing.

Okay, here is my thing. I am a freediver with a chronic sinusitis and I can't dive deep at the moment.However, I was always interested in learning Spearfishing.

When I am Freediving in the Mediterranean sea I don't see any fish Can you give me any advice where to go? I would like to take a course.

 

[J Campbell]

"When I am Freediving in the Mediterranean sea I don't see any fish"
Yep, the planet is fast losing all its fish! Global warming and over-fishing will soon decimate our seas!

 

[Frenzyfinder]

I went spear fishing for my first time yesterday under my dock. Missed my shots on a couple of nice sheepshead... Had schools of mullet just swimming around me.. The viz was pretty poor at that point and I tried making a few shots. I had tons of fun just snorkeling in max 6 feet of water and saw a nice sized blue crab at my neighbors dock and a big snapper swimmer by to check me out.

I do practice dynamic breathe holds on my elliptical machine but until I start diving I'll just keep practicing my aim in shallow waters. Don't let your ego get ahead of you


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[Frenzyfinder]

Oh and I almost took off a finger nail using stainless steel wishbones X.X .. And yes it was because I was rushing my reload on a second band


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[Mr. X]

Oh and I almost took off a finger nail using stainless steel wishbones X.X .. And yes it was because I was rushing my reload on a second band

Easily done and part of the attraction of dyneema wishbones.

wahoo, re. risk probabilites, I don't think any meaningful statistics are available or ever could be available for such a thing. However, if you have particular concerns (e.g. a health condition or a young family dependent on you) you might consider postponing some of your more adventurous activities for a few years: one of my old climbing partners only took up climbing when his daughter started University (he was super-fit for his age though, actually super-fit for any age).

It is possible to spear entirely from the surface. I shot my first bass from the surface and many fish from water that is less than waist-deep, so that I don't need to hold my breath. Some locations are like that and some are not and require diving to some depth - so choose your dive locations accordingly. Some locations offer both.

That said, I currently prefer moderately deep water, so a steep beach into moderately deep water means I can start fishing sooner. However, when I started out, I preferred shallow water around rocks & weed beds (which I still enjoy) and steep beaches into deep water tended to be less productive (it is often harder to see fish below you than above you - but they can see you). I rarely find myself in very deep water and would probably move away from it unless there was some interesting structure nearby, perhaps churning the surface water (e.g. the Manacles) that might suggest fish opportunities closer to the surface.

Another thing to consider is changes in the state of your health & fitness. As you get older, or after a lay off, it is well to ease back into things carefully, rather than assuming you can start off this year where you left off last time you dived, way back when. Also, significant changes of equipment - my new wetsuit has completely changed my buoyancy needs and, if I switch between old & new wetsuits, the needs are different for each. Best to get a simple set up and stick with it, only making one small tweak to it at a time (easily written!).

 

[Woohoo]

re. risk probabilites, I don't think any meaningful statistics are available or ever could be available for such a thing.

No you're right not accurate statistics, way too many variables. Everybody's different. Different levels of fitness, lung capacities, heart rates, breathing patterns etc. But surely there has to be some basic medical/science based facts that can be relied on to give a fairly accurate probability of the risk involved in different levels of free diving on an average, untrained person.

We know what happens to the human body under water, and we know how these effects increase the deeper we go. I'm guessing that at shallow depths the effects of being under water are almost non existent?

I would also think that the affects on an average human body and the risks involved in holding our breath for certain lengths of time, could be fairly accurately predicted by medical professionals. When it comes to trained/training free divers perhaps the variables become too great but for an average joe with no medical conditions, I would have thought they were fairly predictable.

I may just be telling myself exactly what I want to hear, but I think holding your breath in shallow water is barely any diffferent to holding it while on dry land. And I think holding your breath for short periods of time, never going past the point where your body is telling you to breath, is very unlikely to cause you to blackout. Most of us have been swimming since we were kids. All those years in swimming pools, diving under and holding our breaths, swimming from one end to the other, yet none of us ever blacked out.

However, if you have particular concerns (e.g. a health condition or a young family dependent on you) you might consider postponing some of your more adventurous activities for a few years

I would if there were no other alternative but I'm fairly sure I've found the happy medium. By not allowing myself to train in free diving techniques, not swimming at any great depths, not trying to hold my breath for any longer than a normal single breath, I believe I can enjoy spear fishing, keep fit and put fresh fish on the dinner table, without any greater risk to my life than say when I drive down the motorway each day.

Free diving is a wonderful thing, but I've decided the risks aren't worth the rewards for me personally and I don't think it's a prerequisite to enjoying or being successful at spearfishing.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

You've had some good advice, but I'll add my perspective.

Your title is misleading. You aren't spearfishing without apnea, you're just limiting apnea to your comfort zone. There are thousands of us who do the same thing. From what you read in magazines or on web sites, you may lead to believe that everyone makes long deep dives, comes up only after X contractions, etc. but its not so. I've been diving for over 65 years and I've never done tables. I've never felt a contraction. I come up when my body tells me to and I never want to feel that I didn't have a margin of safety when I hit the surface. At age 77, a minute is a good dive for me. Some times I do slightly better, but the last time out my best was 59 seconds. I generally hunt at around 20 feet, but I'll gladly hunt shallower if conditions permit. The last time 0ut I think my deepest dive was about 33 feet.

I dive with young studs who are much better than I am. If my fish wraps in the kelp at 50 feet, I'm not too proud to let them cut it out. I'm not in a competition with them.

Since you seem very much concerned with safety, I suggest that you consider a Freedive Recovery Vest. You can set maximum depth and time limits, and if you exceed either one, it inflates and gives you a ride to the surface. I wear one every time I dive.

http://www.oceanicss.com/Freedivers Recovery Vest FRV.htm

I wish all my dive buddies would wear the vest, but a lot of them think they are immortal. You seem to realize that you are not, so maybe you'll wear a vest.