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Spearfishing video!!!

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http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/16/fish.empathy.ap/index.html

PETA campaigns against eating fish

Tuesday, November 16, 2004 Posted: 5:33 PM EST (2233 GMT)

NEW YORK (AP) -- Touting tofu chowder and vegetarian sushi as alternatives, animal-rights activists have launched a novel campaign arguing that fish -- contrary to stereotype -- are intelligent, sensitive animals no more deserving of being eaten than a pet dog or cat.

Called the Fish Empathy Project, the campaign reflects a strategy shift by People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals as it challenges a diet component widely viewed as nutritious and uncontroversial.

"No one would ever put a hook through a dog's or cat's mouth," said Bruce Friedrich, PETA's director of vegan outreach. "Once people start to understand that fish, although they come in different packaging, are just as intelligent, they'll stop eating them."

The campaign is in its infancy and will face broad skepticism. Major groups such as the American Heart Association recommend fish as part of a healthy diet; some academics say it is wrong to portray the intelligence and pain sensitivity of fish as comparable to mammals.

"Fish are very complex organisms that do all sorts of fascinating things," said University of Wyoming neuroscientist James Rose. "But to suggest they know they what's happening to them and worry about it, that's just not the case."

PETA, headquartered in Norfolk, Virginia, has campaigned for years against sport fishing, challenging claims by Rose and others that fish caught by anglers do not feel pain. PETA also has joined other critics in decrying the high levels of mercury or other toxins in many fish and the pollution discharged by many fish farms.

The Empathy Project is a departure in two respects -- attempting to depict the standard practices of commercial fishing as cruel and seeking to convince consumers that there are ethical reasons for not eating fish.

"Fish are so misunderstood because they're so far removed from our daily lives," said Karin Robertson, 24, the Empathy Project manager and daughter of an Indiana fisheries biologist. "They're such interesting, fascinating individuals, yet they're so incredibly abused."

The project was inspired by several recent scientific studies -- widely reported in Britain but little-noticed in the United States -- detailing facets of fish intelligence.

Oxford University researcher Theresa Burt de Perera, for example, reported that the blind Mexican cave fish is able to interpret water pressure changes to construct a detailed mental map of its surroundings.

"Most people dismiss fish as dimwitted pea-brains. ... Yet this is a great fallacy," wrote University of Edinburgh biologist Culum Brown in the June edition of New Scientist. "In many areas, such as memory, their cognitive powers match or exceed those of 'higher' vertebrates, including non-human primates."

Chris Glass of the Manomet Center for Conservation Sciences in Massachusetts led another recent study, showing how North Sea haddock developed abilities to avoid trawlers' nets.

"There's no doubt that fish of all shapes and forms are capable of learning fairly complex tasks," Glass said. "They can learn from their environment and experience."

Yet Glass declined to endorse the don't-eat-fish appeals.

"We don't want to be caught between warring factions," he said. "We're interested in helping the fisheries industry do a responsible job."

To press their argument, PETA activists plan demonstrations starting next month at selected seafood restaurants nationwide. PETA also will urge changes in commercial fishing practices, for example proposing that trawler crews stun fish before cutting them up.

Friedrich questioned why there is popular support for sparing marine mammals -- dolphins and porpoises -- yet minimal concern for species like tuna, "whose suffering would warrant felony animal cruelty charges if they were mammals."

Fish-welfare rules would be a new realm for U.S. commercial fishermen. The National Fisheries Institute, which represents them, has pledged to help sustain fish stocks but its members have never faced cruelty regulations regarding their catch.

"It's irresponsible to discourage people from eating fish at a time when doctors and dietitians advise eating it twice a week," said institute president John Connelly. "If anything, we should be eating more fish."

Friedrich acknowledges the difficulty of changing long-held customs, but thinks his project is worthwhile. "We'd rather go too far than not far enough," he said.

READ THAT LAST STATEMENT AGAIN! They no longer care to stradle the middle. They have gone off the deep end.
 
I think PETA should target commercial fisheries that rape the seas, instead of recreational fishers. im all up for conservation but substituting tofu and vegetarian sushi for the real deal is just WRONG :duh , not to mention nothing beats a nice juicy steak :p
 
Mike,

I also agree with you. Like fuzz said there is a time for freedive and scuba. I also thought scuba hunting is not unethical when you talked about the depth and the size of the fishes, environmental conditions too...

But after all that talk when i saw that video, i just dissapoint, glad its not all like this and this guy is only a beginner....I just expected something more hardcore :) ;)

side note: I know the catching the small mullet is challenging enough, can you say that the guy whats doing in the video is challanging too..I have no doubt that there is no law override there or unethical behaveiour...
 
Greek , French , American people kill fish for food and enjoyment. I do it for enjoyment first and for food , second. It's my nature to hunt.
The thing that matters is the way you do it. Every one must find the limit.
A deep-sea bomb explosion is a good way to catch fish for food and maybe for enjoyment. Is it before or after the limit?

Happy times to everyone of you , especially the American guys
 
how can you compare a bomb to a selective harvest? Where is there any relation in this analogy? A spearfisherman selects his target and squeezes the trigger, a bomb destroys everything.

Come back to this topic if you have anything worthwhile to say...

Murat, we have mullet here and I can imagine the little buggers would be very hard to shoot. Thats why I never had said anything about their size. I know its a different world over there and I havent the faintest clue about it so I trust in people like you to inform me.
 
I have to agree with you Rig. I have to admire both Med Spearos and American spearos. Med Spearos have to have such a degree of marksmanship to hit those fish. and american spearos deal with such huge fish, and honestly i would shit my pants if i was down at 300+ feet and along came a huge cobia. and those garfish: spooky!
Kudos to both! can we move along now and get back to our usual posting pics of fish with stories?
 
Hmm.... their homepage looks like some MTV/E! site now.
I must admit it has been quite a few years since I've read anything about them. The impression I got from that research I mentioned that was done by scientists and accepted by PETA is no longer.

I guess they are all blind mindwashed vegan combat-hippies now. :hmm
 
Hey Guys Great Video

I was also dumbfounded by the amount and calmness of fish out there. Noticed how the guy avoided shooting amberjacks although they were all over the place. Was a situation I think where a freediving spearo could do alot more damage than a scuba diver- so restraint and observing bag limits are the only ethics to go by.

Rig dont be surprised by someone from Greece drawing parallels between scuba spearing and "bombs". Greek waters were indeed raped for 2-3 decades changing the underwater scene dramatically in a way that prompted many spearos to give up the hobby for lack of fish. When you are spearing for 5 hrs without having pulled the trigger in a place where there should be fish, you look for someone to blame. Contributors to this (as far as non-professional fishing goes) were the dynamite throwers (bombs), the night spearos, and (in the eyes of the lawmaker) spearos on scuba, but most importantly....the lack of a bag limit until the early 90's and very poor policing by the coastal authorities. Today we are allowed a 5kg total of various fish + 1 fish over 5kg per 24 hr period. On a personal level I have seen dropoff areas completely stripped of their groupers by scuba divers and just to be the devils advocate id say that scuba hunting can be more devastating on cave dwelling fish than freedive spearing. On the other hand ive met guys on scuba content with spearing a 3kg grouper from 52m and come to think of it all those bubbles scare the dentex away...
 
Ntrik,

We have all those idots here as well, plus some of them know using chemicals to harvest litle fishes from the shore. They are stupid enough to eat or sell those fishes...Some of them even apply electric shock to the water with generator to paralyse fishes around.....Some spero friend told me that he even feel those electric shocks when he was swimming nearby..If i see one of them, i will let his ass to taste my spear then i will give him electric shock myself...
 
A spearfisherman has many ways to catch fishes.
1. With tis hands (yes , with his hands)
2. With spearfun using his breath
3. With speargun using H2O tanks
4. With chemicals that bring fishew to the surface (common practice nowadays)
5. ....

The way you choose is your personal limit. Always must be a limit.
There is a good way to catch octapus using chlorine , common practice in Greece. that's illegal and amoral for spearfisthing community. Like fishing with H2O tanks. You must give fish fish a change. It is like "stealing a church" , this is a common logo in Greece and it means that something is easy. The fish population is die down.
The fact that H2O tanks fishing is legal in US is not the point. Death penalty is legal to US , but not to other countries.
Afganistan had a low that adulterous women must die with pelting in common view , even the women have been raped. If you been in a scenic like this what wound you do. I don't think that you would pelt the woman. It is out of your limit , I think.

Spearfishing with tanks is out of MY LIMIT , here in Greece or even in US.
I believe it must be illegal in US. Spearfishing community must be against this. This is my opinion
 
Kpk

Spare us the ecological pseudomorality. At the end of the day the fish still gets a spear through its body be it a freediver or scuba hunter that pulls the trigger. If they both observe the quota there is no reason why one should feel worse than the other. So drop it. Most countries allow scuba hunting while some forbid spearfishing altogether. Lawmakers in Greece dont know their ass from a hole in the ground and never did. The reasoning behind the scuba hunting ban was based on three considerations:

1) The Safety Issue. Where it is assumed that a scuba diver must direct all ones attention to observing instrument readings, deco stops etc. and that spearfishing would be to dangerous a distraction.

2) Protection of Underwater Antiquities. By far the most important consideration. Greece's ocean bottom is litteraly covered with various artifacts, and because of a boom in antiquity smuggling at that time, lawmakers sought to regulate access to these underwater sites. It is no accident that even plain scuba diving today is restricted to the maximum to designated areas.

3) Conservation of Marine Life. This demonstrates one of the measures taken against leisure fishing activities as a method for conservation. Along with the scuba hunting ban, came the ban on night spearing, a total ban on spearing for the month of May for fish breeding reasons, and ban of the use of a torch by any spearo even during daylight. Trouble is professional fishermen suffered no similar restrictions at the time and were having a field day what with 15000m nets and extensive inshore trawling. If you need to point your finger at anyone point it at them.

If you still insist in being entrenched in your "morality" consider that if you are using a flashlight during the day to locate fish in caves (which you probably are), under Greek standards, you are every bit as illegal and immoral as any scuba hunter in Greece. Remember this my friend and do not be so quick to accuse next time.

Nikos
 
Ntrik said:
If you still insist in being entrenched in your "morality" consider that if you are using a flashlight during the day to locate fish in caves (which you probably are), under Greek standards, you are every bit as illegal and immoral as any scuba hunter in Greece. Remember this my friend and do not be so quick to accuse next time.

Nikos

Try to shoot 15 kg grouper in the cave with flashlight at 30+ meters, i assure you its not as easy as you think. We lost some friends here while they were trying to get the grouper form the cave...

Next time think twice before you comment on a situation that you don't have slightest clue about it. :vangry :rcard :ban
 
Kpk

Yes I am Greek and studying in England at the moment.

Murat

You misunderstood me. Am not commenting on degree of difficulty or even whether it is right or wrong. My comment was to Kpk that you cannot support the correctness of Greek law regarding a ban on scuba hunting and at the same time violate it by using a flashlight. In case you missed it i point out that use of flashlight is forbidden in Greece by spearos same as scuba hunting. Have pulled a few hard groupers out of their caves also Murat sometimes its a no win situation. Sorry about your friends.
 
sorry Ntrik my fault :duh Those topics may go to unwanted directions sometimes. Really, those are not constructive discussions and they already had been discussed so many times before...
 
Nikos
1. I don't fish using lights in caves
2. I don't speak about laws. I speak about morality. Every one has his morality. Mine stops in one breath.
3. "Allo vourtses kai allo poutses , re megale"
"Brush is one thing and penis is another..." This is common logo in Greece , means that someone mess different things. If you want to spear using tanks , do it. Let the "Safety Issue" , the "Protection of Underwater Antiquities" and "the rotection of marine" out of this.
Try this : www.greekdivers.com/forum
This is the greek spearfishing portal. Get in an d make a topic like this :
"Hi my name is Nikos and I like to spear with tank". Then post here the answers.
4. Take care of your self there in foreign lands

By the way how is the spearfishing in England;
 
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