Speargun help

[allhunter]

ok well i want to get a new spear gun and found this one and i really like it and wanted to know what you all think now i want power liability everything and easy to load for a cheap price and this seems like it fits all of the above i will use this on mostly carp and anything else spearable in wisconsin but may go spearing in florida next year and use it there let me know what you think



JBL 38-Special Northwest Speargun 4D38NW with reviews at scuba.com

 

[alexrom1207]

I don't know why so many people start out with JBL. I have a 48" biller. Thought it looked cool at the time, and I've had to make so many adjustments to it over the years to get it to shoot 1/2 as well as my buddy's riffe.
The JBL is even worse (especially in the small sizes).

The slide ring it comes with is incredibly bulky. It makes the spear inaccurate and slows it down. It also makes the gun loud. I have a low profile slide ring on both my shafts for my biller ($10 each for the slide rings and you have to install them by taking off the tip so it's a bit of a project).
Next, the spear they use is way too big (diameter wise). There is no need to have a spear that big on a gun, especially a small gun. It slows down the shot and contributes the an arching effect towards the end of the shot as the spear loses mementum. It also creates more resistance going into the fish.

Which brings me to the next thing wrong with them. The stupid giant tip with the huge metal sheeth at the end that allows the tip to spin freely. This is the worst thing, by far, with these guns. The rockpoint tip is huge, it is heavy, and it really screws up the gun's shot. First, it slows the spear down since it increases drag and since it's heavy. Next it adds weight to the speartip which contrinbutes to the arching effect. Finally, it makes a giant hole in your dinner. hit a fish in the fillet and say goodbye to a good portion of the meat. If you really hit a fish close up and the whole spear and slide ring go through, say goodbye to even more.

I've replaced the spear on my biller with a biller floridian spear (cut off the second flopper since it was pointless), this has the low profile slide ring. I replaced the 9/16th bands with 5/8th bands. I've modified the muzzle a bit to hold the spear better but the gun still performs substandard.

For the same money or less you can get a great aluminum gun. Look at hammerhead or Mako. It will end up costing you more to get a JBL and modify it and it will still not stack up to these other brands. You'll end up replacing it after one season and selling it to some other beginner.

 

[allhunter]

ok thanks for the advice

 

[Mr. X]

Wow, it got perfect reviews from the customers. I wonder if they filter bad reviews out? Mind you, they say ignorance is bliss, when starting out and have nothing to compare it with, if it works, looks good (and it does look pretty James Bond doesn't it) and feels good - that's probably good enough for most.

There is an active bunch of Wisconsin spearos on DeeperBlue.com, suggest you find, read & join some their threads (I'm assuming you are from Appleton Wisconsin - perhaps wrongly - I swam in the river there once) - they'll be able to tell you what works best round there.

I like Alex's advice, short railguns seem to be a popular choice for lakes. I think some of the Canadians use 70cm South African Rob Allen* railguns (v. similar to and predecessor of Mako/Hammerhead) - that would likely be my choice for a trip to WI. But that would likely be too short for Florida, where you might need 100/110+cm barrel. You could go for a compromise size choice (75/80/90cm) but that might ending up not being much good at either place. I normally recommend a cheap small gun and a better longer gun, in your case the shorter gun would likely be used more - so perhaps better to make that the investment and get a cheaper longer gun (perhaps in Florida) if and when you visit.

*Rob Allen gear is imported into the USA by Florida Freedivers I believe. Rabitech, Orcas, Pelaj are other railgun choices. Unrailed spearguns are also worth considering too (the rail doesn't make much/any difference, esp. in smaller sizes). The Italian company Omer , which are distributed in the USA, are perhaps the most innovative specialist spearing company (IMHO) - the new Omer Cayman models or the cheaper but well regarded Omer Excaliber models, for example. In the USA Riffe & Wong are premium products, esp. Wong.

 

[the_duckinator]

I'm not a huge fan of aluminum guns as they are loud underwater (when bumping into rocks/ logs), and aren't as buoyant as wood guns. Make sure you don't get too long of a gun as a lot of spearing in WI happens in poor visibility. It's no fun trying to shoot fish when you can't see your spear tip in front of you. I have a AB Biller 32" and am happy with it so far, though it does punch too big of a hole in smaller fish (bluegills and perch), as alexrom said. It's perfect for carp and suckers though :martial

 

[unirdna]

All solid advice. Axlerom1207 was a bit hard on the JBL's . But, I certainly can't fault him for any of his words - I agree with everything he said.

I live in Madison, and have hunting Wisconsin lakes for almost 10 years. My first gun was a JBL custom. I learned to make it work. But, today, there are much better options for the $$. For the same price as a JBL, you can get a 55-75cm "eurogun" - the best choice for our water, in the 100-200 price range. As mentioned above, you do NOT want a gun with a slide ring (tears up panfish), and you do NOT want a gun longer than 75cm. And make sure your spear is "hawaiian or tahitian" style (flopper). These spears fly though panfish without tearing them up.

IMO, the absolute best gun for our water is a 32" midhandle gun. But, these are not for everyone. Mid handle guns are harder to aim than euros, and are usually 2-4 times the cost. Where midhandle guns shine is their maneuverability. I can literally shoot a crappie behind me with the twist of a wrist. And I frequently pick fish off while upside down on my descent.

Riffe makes a Metal Tech Mid-handle in this size, but I pass on it because I prefer a floating wood gun to sinking aluminum. But, most euroguns are positively buoyant becaus they have barrels filled wth foam. Having a floating gun is very important. Sinkers are fine for SCUBA guys, but freedivers should always opt for a floating gun whenever possible. It is easier on the wrists (aiming), and you'll be less likely to lose it.

Hammerhead - Sporasub - OMER - Aimrite... All better choices than JBL for hunting in Wisconsin. And all in the same price range.

I recommend a 55cm, unless you expect to routinely dive in water with exceptional visability (20 feet or better).

*edit - I should note that I DO think JBL's have a place in the spearfishing arsenal. They are the best gun for point-blank shots into the heads of giant fish that are hole-up in rocks or coral, that need to be pried out after the shot.

 

[allhunter]

ok i will keep this all in mind and look at some of the other brands how do you deal with the ring cuz right now i have a jbl and i noticed the same is there any way to fix it?

 

[alexrom1207]

Axlerom1207 was a bit hard on the JBL's . My first gun was a JBL custom. I learned to make it work. But, today, there are much better options for the $$.

Exactly. A lot of people have had JBLs and the trick is to learn how they shoot and just compensate. You can also modify them with relatively simple changes that drastically improve the performance. They are well built guns, and I completely agree with the statement that they are the perfect gun for large holed up fish (heavy spear, rockpoint tip, short range). But you hit the nail on the head unirdna, there are much better options for the money.

What I can't figure out is why JBLs always seem to be the first gun people stumble upon and buy. Just doing a search on Deeperblue will turn up tons of people looking at a JBL as their first gun. Good marketing I guess, but once you learn enough about different applications for different guns you open up whole new markets. For example, I started out thinking that metal guns were cheap guns and that wood guns were the only ones worth getting. Now I know better, but it took me a while. Deeperblue helped.:inlove

 

[allhunter]

what bands should i get a single 20 or double 16's

 

[Mr. X]

what bands should i get a single 20 or double 16's

I found a single 16mm on my RA 90 more than adequately powerful for the modestly size UK fish (railguns which use bulk rubber are probably more powerful than traditional euroguns with screw-in bands). I switched to 20mm and regret it -- significantly more painful to load, especially when new (I have to use a supplementary loading pad - a flip-flop/thong sole - to avoid bruising my chest & upper abs - I was black & blue after a week of spearing almost everyday w/o the extra pad). My Omer XXVs came equipped with 18mm bands - a reasonable compromise I suppose. I'd like to try 16mm Dessault rubber on them when they need replacing.

You could try a single 16mm band and then add another if you feel the need. Just to complicate things further, the Hawaiians often use 2x14mm bands (we did some rough calcs. & figured 2x14mm should have the same power as 1x20mm)..

 

[Jon]

I had a single 16mm on my 75cm Rob Allen and it was more than strong enough to catch any fish that we have around here.

One thing on the RA in freshwater. It might float once you shoot it, but it is tip heavy in freshwater. I imagine that it balances out better in salt water, but for freshwater I much preferred a mid-handle gun. After diving for 6 hours with my RA my wrist was tired- insert joke here. :blackeye

Pneumatics are pretty nice for carp, as long as you don't get one that's too long. something like a Mares Cyrano 700 would be perfect. They have a lot of power in a small package. Having said that, they do have a slider ring on the shaft and take a bigger chunk out of the panfish that we shoot. This is not an issue with rough fish, but makes a bit of a difference on panfish. I had a Cyrano 970 that I really liked, it was just way too long for the limited vis that we suffer with most of the year.

These days I'm using a Hawaiian sling for everything I shoot. I haven't found a need for anything more powerful than that and really like how fast they can be re-loaded. The big downside is that they require two hands to use, instead of just one hand like a gun, and this is a problem when you've got a bum ankle and need to swim no-fins style- so having at least one free hand is pretty important.

You can also get more than a few fish with a polespear. Slings have more range, but polespears are less like likely to be lost in the weeds.

Jon

 

[unirdna]

What I can't figure out is why JBLs always seem to be the first gun people stumble upon and buy.

They look tough/cool - made of mostly aluminum (including the handle). And JBL's webpage is pretty sexy. And JBL exagerates the range of their guns. Actually they navigate around this argument by declaring the "reach" of the gun, not the range. So, a JBL Custom (31" gun) is said to have a "reach" of 12 feet. Sure, when the shooting line is stretched out, the distance from the muzzle to the speartip is 12 feet. If you put two more wraps of mono on the gun, the "reach" will be 18-20 feet. That doesn't mean the spear will "fly" forever. Kinda of shady, considering the gun's real range is about 3-4 feet (from the muzzle).

Many mainstream speargun manufacturers exagerate the range of their guns. But, I think JBL is one of the worst offenders.

JBL Spearguns

 

[alexrom1207]

Many mainstream speargun manufacturers exagerate the range of their guns. But, I think JBL is one of the worst offenders.

JBL Spearguns

They should have just brought it to the Marianas Trench and shot it straight down. They should hire me, look how smart I am!! Seriously, how impressive would the website look!!!!

JBL spearguns are superior to all others on earth. Even our 19" mini carbine has a 35,798 foot reach!!

 

[alexrom1207]

As a side note, I wonder how far the 19" carbine mini actually shoots!!!! I didn't know they even made band guns that short. The thing must be absolutely useless. Can anyone think of a use?

 

[unirdna]

Ask Jon. He bought a mini Bandito about 5 years ago. It was 18". I actually got a crappie with it from Mendota. And no, I'm not THAT good. It just happened to be the dumbest crappie in Wisconsin. The range on the gun was about 1 foot. And it couldn't even send a spear completely through a panfish at point blank.

Jon sold the gun shortly after that day. And what's worse is he got all his money back and then some on eBay.

 

[alexrom1207]

Just to be fair to JBL it looks like they've been reading some negative reviews and adapting. They still produce most of their guns with all the features I've been criticizing but check out this model. JBL Spearguns I still think you're better off with a different company, but at least they make something closer to what people end up with after they modify the other models.

 

[fleshy]

Generally steer clear of the JBL's unless its a first time gun and you are buying it USED, DIRT CHEAP. The thing about them is that if you can get them used they are just as good as the day they were brand new because they are more durable that all hell, but thats about the only positive thing about them. I hunted successfully for many years with a JBL but it did make me appreciate a good gun even more when I finally upgraded.