Speargun questions...comparisons.

[SinglerM]

Hi,

I just moved to Guam and have only recently joined this forum. I've searched through and have read many postings on this site.....Thanks.
After reading and looking at various manufacturers websites, I have some more questions I'd like to post here.
I plan to mainly free dive around reefs and shallower areas to start out. The visibility is very good here. I'm 6 ft. tall, if that even matters at all when deciding how long of a gun to get. I'd like to stay around $250-$300 for a spear gun. Here are a few I'm considering:

*Cressi Geronimo Pro, $300 plus shipping from hawaii (not available locally)
*Picasso Pacific,110cm $240 available locally.
*Rob Allen, Tuna 1200, $300. Local.
*Rob Allen, Caranx 1200, $300. Local.

The general concensus here seems to be, stick with a 100cm gun to start. The shop in Hawaii recommended over the phone to get the Cressi Geronimo Pro 115, due to having good visibility and me being 6 ft.
The Shop here recommends a 120cm gun.
I definately don't want to get too big of a gun to start. I plan to mostly use this gun in shallower water, also.
The Rob Allen gun that are in the store are 1200 or bigger sizes. No 110cm or 100cm sizes are currently in stock.
The Picasso Pacific models are available in shorter lengths, But it looks to me that the Rob Allen guns are a much better quality. I want to get the right size, though.
A question about the Rob Allen guns...They don't have a loading pad on the back like I've seen on other brands of guns, what is the reason for not having the pad? Does it creat a problem for Rob Allen gun owners?
What are the differences between the Picasso models, some have red labels on the barrel, some have green. They appear very similar but there are price differences. Are Picasso guns considered good? Or should I get a 1200 Rob Allen? If I get a Rob Allen, should I get the Tuna 1200 or the Caranx 1200. The difference between these guns is the shaft diameters and bands. What would you recommend between the two.
I'd like to support the local shop, but if I can get a better gun by choosing the Cressi Geronimo Pro 115, then I'll order it from Hawaii.
I'd really appreciate any advice or recommendations.
Thank you,
Mitch

 

[SinglerM]

I wanted to add a couple of more questions. Sorry about replying to my own thread.
What are things to consider when choosing between a single 20mm band, 7mm shaft(Rob Allen, Tuna) versus a double 16mm band with a 7.5mm shaft(Rob Allen Caranx)

Doubles or singles?

Thanks,
Mitch

 

[Mr. X]

Deja vuThere are several similar threads, some quite recent. Check out the railgun chart at Sumora.com it provides a good guide to choosing the length of speargun required vs. visibility & terrain. The size of fish targeted can also be a factor. Find out what your local spearos use.

For RA you'll need a good loading pad but I wouldn't let that put you off. A thick flip-flop sole can be used but RA also make an inexpensive strap-on pad that is supposed to be good. I have a 90cm Sparid, that comes with 6.6mm shaft & single 16mm - perfectly fine for the UK. I have a 20mm band on it now, the only difference I have noticed is that it is much harder to load! So:
Sparid (1x16mm & 6.6mm shaft),
Caranx (1x20mm & 7mm shaft),
Tuna (1x16mm & 7.5mm shaft)

Ref.: Rob Allen railguns
16mm rubbers are easier to load, one rubber is faster to load than 2, 2 rubbers is the most powerful set-up (of those shown) & you don't have to use both. 20mm rubber is heavier & bulkier than 16mm. 2 rubbers will be heavier & create more drag than one.

I wouldn't worry about those details too much - getting the right length is probably more important. You can always add/swap rubbers & buy a new shaft (the RA spears are reasonably priced). Although you could also buy a new barrel & spear!

The SA spearos use similar length guns to those that you are considering (often in the 110-140cm range) and can probably offer advice on what to start with in your area. Miles uses a 115cm Rabitech Apex with soft 20mm rubber & 7mm spear for much of his inshore spearing. I think the RA Caranx 120cm would be a very cool gun but would not be my idea of an ideal starter gun.

Looking through old threads, I just came across this which might also be of interest (Miles thoughts on choosing spear diameter).

 

[SinglerM]

Thanks for the reply Mr. X,

I've read through some of the applicable threads you mentioned. I'll look over the shaft diameter thread you linked as well. It seems that the 1200 caranx with it's 7mm shaft and 20mm band would be the appropriate choice for me. Considering the 50+ft. visibility I have here, the 120cm would be the ticket. As you pointed out, I don't know how suitable it would be for a beginner. This is my main concern, I may give it a go anyway. What remains, is to decide between the Cressi geronimo Pro 115 or the RA Caranx 1200. I have read too many positive things about Rob Allen guns to ignore, so that is what I'll buy. I haven't found much on the Geronimo Pro.

As I understand it up to this point, the Tuna (2 X 16mm bands; 7.5 shaft) is more suited to offshore, and bigger fish. The Caranx (20mm band; 7mm shaft) is more suited to inshore, and smaller fish. It seems that there is a bit of overlap between these two models.

I'm leaning towards the Caranx and buying either a slightly longer band at the time I purchase it, to allow for easier loading. Or buying a 16mm band, and using that until I develop the proper technique and then switch back to the 20mm band.

The point of confusion comes in......I could also buy the tuna and just remove one of the bands, for the smaller sized fish. Possibly buy a 7mm shaft to better match the single 16mm band.
Am I correct in thinking that the Tuna and the Caranx are identical except for the band/shaft configurations? I read in another post that the Tuna had a stainless steel line release, and the Caranx did not. Other that that, are they the same?

What concerns should I be aware of if I decide to get the 1200 length, being a beginner?

Thanks for taking the time to reply, and thanks for the shaft diameter link. The other items you mentioned, I have read over. Those are some impressive fish Miles shot. The simplicity of a single 20mm band appeals to me, being a beginner. Judging by the pictures of Miles' fish, that type of setup would be more than adequate for me. Just concerned that it might be too much gun for a new guy. Off for more reading.

Regards,
Mitch

 

[Marwan]

Mitch, both rob allens are identical i believe, its just different configurations on shaf and bands, even if one has a ss trigger, dont worry abou it...i would definitely go for the rob allen, i deally a 100 length, but that doesnt seem to be an option , probably for good reason there..do you know what kind of fish is typically hunted in shore...?
get the caranx and later you could play with different configurations, i beliee a 7.5 spear will be too much for inshore...

 

[Coral Sniper]

I think the 120cm gun could be a little big for starting out.

I would go for the picasso in a 100cm, I have used that gun and it is tough.
If you are wondering about the mech I have had no probs with it.

I dive in clear water like yourself but I dont think it is allways necessary to match your gun to the visibility especially if you are new.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[beamjoel]

either way, the RA is a great gun, I have three 80, 100 and 120cm all the TUNA version. If you are up close in the reef/rocky area you can only load one of the 16mm bands then load both for full power.


I would go for the 100cm TUNA and if your spearfishing progression takes you on to larger game and longer shots you can always order just the barrel to increase your length to the 120cm or even longer if you so choose.

The 100cm will get you use to loading with no loading butt on the gun. I personally have no problems with the 120cm.

I am sure you will make the right choice with all the information you can pull off this site.


good luck
Joel

 

[Mr. X]

Thanks for the reply Mr. X,
...
What concerns should I be aware of if I decide to get the 1200 length, being a beginner?
...

I was hoping Miles or one of the SA spearos might discover this thread (what do they start with in SA?). I suggest you use DeeperBlue's private mail facility to "PM" him.

Marwan is right, the main RA models just vary in bands & spear diameters -- I like that.

 

[SinglerM]

Thanks for all of the responses. The deciding factor is whether or not 120cm is too big. If so, I'll go smaller. I'll PM Miles and ask for some advice on what they do in his neck of the wooks.

Thanks again.
Mitch

 

[SinglerM]

I'll take another look at the Picasso 100cm. They have it in stock at the shop here.

Thank you.
Mitch

I would go for the picasso in a 100cm, I have used that gun and it is tough.
If you are wondering about the mech I have had no probs with it.

I dive in clear water like yourself but I dont think it is allways necessary to match your gun to the visibility especially if you are new.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[Marwan]

also talk to the dive shops, there might be good reason why they only stock 120cm guns..i.e. its probably baseed on the fish/conditions where they hunt..

 

[cww180]

I'm in Okinawa and I've heard the waters are similar, I would definitely get the 120cm there is a learning curve but you will be glad you have once you get used to loading it, you could always get two 9/16 rubbers and a 6.6 shaft to start for ease of loading but its really not that bad. I use 2 5/8ths bands and a 7mm for inshore reef hunting and this allows me to unband if I have to shoot directly in the rocks or in a hole. Just my opinion.

 

[miles]

Hiya

The best source of advice would be your dive-shop. Since they've recommended a 120cm length gun, you can be assured that it is the most versatile type length used in your area.

Lets make this clear from the start. You WILL battle to load your gun. Whether it is a 100cm or a 120cm gun, you WILL struggle!! Its 90% technique. Get the dive-shop to show you how to properly load the gun.

There are ways of 'cheating' though!! Get a 120cm gun, with a single 20mm band and a 7mm spear. Thats a good all-round combination, which offers quick loading and good power. How-ever, get them to fit extra long bands to the gun. This way, your gun will be under-powered, but it'll facilitate easy loading. After you've mastered loading the gun, simply take your gun back to the dive-shop and have the bands made shorter. Alternatively, you could even do it yourself. Very simple really!!

The thing i hated most when i started out was having a gun that was too difficult to load. When i eventually got it loaded, i was too afraid to shoot smaller sized fish, as it meant that i'd have to load it again!!roflrofl You need the gun to be easy to load, so that you can start perfecting your aim. Getting a 100cm gun, when everyone else is using 120's will only cause you frustration. You'll find fish constantly out of range and will pretty soon become despondent. It's also an unneccessary expense, becuase when you've mastered loading the gun, you'll then have to upgrade to a longer, more suitable gun!!

Remember, we ALL battled to load our first guns!! I battled to load a 90cm gun, when i started. My wife is now able to load my 115cm guns with ease!!

Some other general tips: guns load easier INSIDE the water. Use gloves, they make a big difference. New bands are generally very tight. They lose some of their tightness after a few weeks. Just keep on practicing!!

Regards
miles

ps. post some pic's of the large fish you'll be shooting!!

 

[Mr. X]

Excellent! Thanks Miles.

 

[SinglerM]

Thanks Miles,

That's what I'll do then, a 120cm caranx. I'll get some longer bands at the time I purchase it.

cww180, I'm glad to hear that you agree on the length as well. That was the main factor I was really unsure on.

Thanks to everyone that offered advise, it really helped clear up some confusion for me and make a $300 decision much easier and informed.

I really appreciate it.

Take care,
Mitch

 

[SinglerM]

Thanks for all of the responses. I've been spending alot of time reading through the posts here. The shop sold the 120 Caranx that they had in stock, so I got a 130 caranx:inlove. In an email from Rob Allen at the Dive Factory, he mentioned that he uses a 130 as his all around gun in the clear waters he dives in.
Loading is manageable, but it'll take some time before it comes naturally. The consensus in Guam is that 120 and bigger guns are the way to go. It's great to be able to ask questions on this forum and get some additional guideance on what to choose. I wanted to get it right the first time, considering the cost of the gun.
I hope to post some pictures soon, once I work through the learning curve of spearfishing and freediving.

Thanks again.
Mitch.

 

[tbgsub]

I live In Saipan, just 40+ miles north of Guam, I started out with a Pole spear as my first attempt and catching fish, then two months later I got the gun I ordered from Subprof, an Omer Cobra 100cm Circolare, with dual 18mm bands and 6mm bolt. It shoots fast and far for 100cm and you have the option to single band it with still excellent range and speed!

you will most likely start of reef fish, and evolve to deeper larger pelagic fish.

a Good starter is 100-120 untill you are comfortable taking long shots, then bump up to 125-130 for larger fish.

it seems that a 100-125 speargun with a dual band option, not breakaway, but rigged to a float line and float is near optimal.

I tried a breakaway that seems to get hung up in the coral easier than I would have liked starting out, till I developed the calmness to shoot and gather the fish and bolt in the same dive, which saves tons of time and effort in the long run.

I have since lost the Cobra gun to high current over the breakaway setup, and have gotten a Riffe 120 Euro Gun, which had great results over accuracy in Hawaiian Skindiver in their shootout test section about seven months back. I can say the Riffe Euro shoots almost identically as the Omer Cobra except the Cobra was easier to load and had less trigger pressure needed to release the bolt. but I like the toggle safety better on the Riffe than the track switch on the Cobra.

Still miss the cobra though, it was a beautiful gun!

best of luck in Guam waters,

look me up if you want to take a trip to Saipan (where fishing is challenging because there isn't alot of fish near the reef), or more appropriately (ROTA where fishing is GREAT every where!!!)

 

[blaiz]

I shoot with a riffe 110 euro series. I love it, its got great range, not too long which makes for great reef and hole diving, and still has the power and range to take down some bigger palagics.

I might be making a broad assumption here but I have heard that guam waters are fairly similar to hawaiian waters. You might look into getting a reel for your gun. I have found that when targeting certain species of fish that a float line hanging above your head tends to push them further away (e.g. Mu or large eye emperor, Uku or Green jobfish) I will usually anchor my float a few meters away from where I want to drop.

 

[tbgsub]

I have been thinking of adding a 10ft clear nylon leader with a small float in the middle for shallower areas to prevent hanging up on coral, that fish wont see me connected to. I cut and drilled holes in tea spoons and attached them to my line to add some flash and hopefully detract from the simple line, but it may be scaring the fish a little.

Many of the local fishermen in Saipan and Guam use reels, but there are occasional Giant Trevally stories where anything over 30lbs swimms off with all your gear!! I know I will at least have a chance with a float and 75ft Riffe Bungie floatline, I just need a better float system than an Omer Atoll that could easily collapse like a sack after 30ft if it got pulled under.

It is tricky setting up a system that is adaptable to reef and blue water species all the time, Im still experimenting, but I think a double banded long reef gun with three wraps of line attached to a float line and bouy is getting there.

for competition a Euro reef gun 110 or longer with one 18-20mm band is the ticket with a reel holding 100ft of line just in case for sure!

 

[blaiz]

tbgsub,

Is your omer float inflatable? if so you could always fill it with expanda foam. Though that takes away the advantages of having an inflatable float