Spearing: Boat, RIB, Dory, Dinghy, Dive Kayak?

[miles]

Hiya

Alluminuim boats are relatively new here in South Africa. Extemely light boats, which therefor require small motor or motors, making it conderably cheaper to purchase and maintain. Should you danage it, all you need to do is some welding to fix it!! Look at makes like Quintrex. Hugely popular in Australia.

C-Ski 440. It looks like the ideal inshore spearing boat!! Some negatives which MIGHT not be applicable to you:
Many people buy boats for multipurposes. Some want to be able to take the family out on trips as well as use it for fishing/diving/water ski-ing, etc. The C-ski has very low sides, which makes for easy access into the water and easier access back into the boat, but is dangerous for family trips with small kids.
It'll have a limited space, so possibly a max of 4 spearo's per trip.
If you start doing trips which require you to cover large distances, you'll probably want a second motor. Then the fun begins, becuase now you'll start looking for a larger boat, as you'll need to carry more fuel, as well as the larger boat will handle inclemet weather better!!

But for what you're looking for, it seems IDEAL!!!

Regards
miles

 

[Mr. X]

Hiya

Alluminuim boats are relatively new here in South Africa. Extemely light boats, which therefor require small motor or motors, making it conderably cheaper to purchase and maintain. Should you danage it, all you need to do is some welding to fix it!! Look at makes like Quintrex. Hugely popular in Australia.

C-Ski 440. It looks like the ideal inshore spearing boat!! Some negatives which MIGHT not be applicable to you:
Many people buy boats for multipurposes. Some want to be able to take the family out on trips as well as use it for fishing/diving/water ski-ing, etc. The C-ski has very low sides, which makes for easy access into the water and easier access back into the boat, but is dangerous for family trips with small kids.
It'll have a limited space, so possibly a max of 4 spearo's per trip.
If you start doing trips which require you to cover large distances, you'll probably want a second motor. Then the fun begins, because now you'll start looking for a larger boat, as you'll need to carry more fuel, as well as the larger boat will handle inclemet weather better!!

But for what you're looking for, it seems IDEAL!!!

Regards
miles

Oh, I see what you mean -- it is smaller than I thought & the sitting space quite high relative to the the low sides. Quite a precarious ride I would imagine -- but fine from 2, maybe 3 spearos in wetsuits. Small size is a plus for towing. The carry capacity is about right too...1/2/3 spearos...maybe 4 at a push?? Do they have buoyancy built in so they float even if water logged?? The console looks neat -- presumably don't have those on spearo boats though...would prob. take up too much room (& cost more!)?

How much is an engine, typically, compared to a boat (quarter/half the price?).

I like the sound of the aluminium boats. They have a lot of aluminium stuff in the US that you just don't see here: caravans, boats, canoes, etc.. I like the material, I have aluminium bikes, climbing gear, speargun. It's not perfect (relatively soft, harder to weld than steel, can burn, can corrode, expensive vs. steel) but it's very good (v.light, resistant to corrosion especially when anodized, fairly strong, cheap vs. Titanium). Not sure what the implications of a lightening strike would be though -- do they happen at sea? (They say climbing gear can start behaving oddly in thunder storms...presumably due to induced currently).

 

[Fondueset]

I've posted this elsewhere but thats my malibu2 - I have seatbacks for it. It is extremely stable. One summer I anchored it about 80 meters out and the kids used it like a small raft.

 

[blumon]

My 2 cents...when you're on a budget you should think in terms of what it's going to cost to KEEP/OWN the vessel. I advise most people thinking of buying their first boat that ownership of any motorized craft will cost 10-15% of the value of that craft PER YEAR. This, I feel, encourages some reality to the decision making process. Few people NEED a boat, but we all WANT boats and there is nothing more frustrating than owning a boat that you can't afford to use.

B-O-A-T= Break Out Another Thousand!
OR
Broke Or About To!

Apart from my professional involvement, I have owned numerous boats over the years and know a lot of people involved with these wayward ladies - the most satisfaction that I have had has been my present 22ft'er. I got her as a fixer-upper and now, 5 years later, a little at a time she is almost perfect. I kept everything very basic and made sure all the work was done right...details, details, details! BTW, I have had constant use of my investment thru'out the process...not always comfortable but it got me out there. Treated her like a Lady and she responds beautifully every time!
B

 

[miles]

Hiya

Pic#1 - my old 15.5' (4.7m) Gemini Semi Rigid. Originally fitted with a single 40hp motor. After doing longer trips a second 40hp motor was fitted. I'm a lazy spearo, so i left the console with steering wheel on. Besides, my wife doesn't know how to steer a boat with a tiller arm (and i'm also useless!!), so the steering wheel option was left at a cost of storage space being lost. Pretty soon the boat became too small.
Originally, the single 40hp motor pushed the boat plus 3 spearo's with all their kit easily. Four spearo's on board and the 40hp motor was a tad bit underpowered!! All of us were large guys weighing well over 100kg's each!! With 2x40hp motors she literally flew!!

Pic#2 - my 15' (4.5m) fibreglass cat with 2x50hp motors, in full battle dress!! That boat was actually overpowered, and would've ran just as well with 2x30hp motors. LOADS more space than my semi rigid, even though it was a slighly smaller boat. Plenty of storage space and loads more fish carrying space. Ran well with 4 spearo's and i've even had 8 people on a joy ride with aboslutely no problems!! The sides were also low enough for easy access, but not so low as to constitute a danger of falling overboard.

Pic#3 - my 21' (6.5m) Semi Rigid Hysucat with 2x50hp 4stroke motors. Simply put: THE best boat i've ever owned. Light enough to be propelled by twin 50hp motors. Comfortably carries 6 spearo's with all their kit with no problem. The hysucat hydrofoil system works a treat!! 4 spearo's and over 500kg's of fish and we still came home doing in excess of 30knts!! Supremely sea-worthy coupled with a soft ride. Only downsides are : hates too much weight in the nose (which isn't bad as everyone sits at the back!!) and its a WET boat, just like the previous two!! I've speared up to 40nm from land with this boat and have had many waves BREAK over the boat in inclement weather, BUT not once have i felt unsafe in her!!!

Pic#4 - one of my older boats, "SPARTACUS". A 24' (7.3m) Cape Craft (fibreglass monohull) with 2x115hp yamaha 2strokes. This used to be my tuna fishing boat before i started spearfishing. Sadly, she was sold and chopped up and is now a commercial handline boat.

Pic#5 - my old commercial fishing boat, "MA BAKER". A 18' (5.5m) monohull powered by 2x85hp Yamaha's. We fished 6 guys with handlines and put to sea a minimum of 5 times a week, regardless of weather. VERY wet and BUMPY boat!! I'm sure that boat must've banged me at least a couple of cm's shorter!! Greatest catch was 2.2ton on fish (2200kgs/4850lbs) plus a crew of 4 and the boat carried it beautifully!! These boats are designed to carry a load. Put 500-1000kg's of weight on her and she runs like a dream!! We even used to put 50kg bags of sand in her so that she wouldn't bang that much!!She was also sadly sold and now stands neglected in a fishermans yard. Its a real pity as she's probably been less than 20 times to sea over the past 3 years.....

 

[miles]

Some idea's of what our conditions are like!!

Things can go from a flat calm sea to a scary waves breaking over your boat in less than 30minutes!! Thats why everything must be in working order.

Then you get those that live further north of Cape Town, who don't have harbours, so they launch straight off the beach. Sometimes in nasty stuff!! My friends who do surf launch's maintain that there are two skipper, those that have flipped their boats and those that WILL STILL flip their boats during surf launching!!

The powers that be has declared, that your boat must have two motors if you're going to sea further than 1nm. This has now changed, and you're allowed up to 5nm off shore on a single engined boat, IF you have a VHF radio onboard. Anything over 5nm and twin outboard motors are required. The rule is normally to fit two outboard of identical make and power. The reasoning behind this is that if you damage one motor or have motor problems, you can limp home on one motor. Or, if you hit a log or reef, and both motors are damaged, you might still be able to get ONE fixed by using parts of the other motor. for boats launching through the surf, it is recommended that the boat should be able to plane on one engine, should the other engine fail. Just some info. on our regulations!!

Regards
miles

 

[omega3]

Some Great pics there Miles.
What is happening in the first and last of the four above which look almost explosive???
And the second Kalk bay one.....did those two on the breakwater survive????

Jim

 

[dave]

How much is an engine, typically, compared to a boat (quarter/half the price?).

Engine is normally in the same ball park as the boat, but there are huge variations in engine prices between makes, eg in the UK a you can get a new Tohatsu 40 for about £1900, but a Yamaha would be near £3000. A bare 4.5m rib is somewhere around £4500, plus at least another £1000 for steering console etc,plus trailer, plus electrics.
The C Ski will be around £3500.Regarding buoyancy it has 4 sealed compartments, each filled with foam filled bottles, so it is pretty much unsinkable, without the waterlogging issues you get with foam filled dories. A C- Ski 440 was recently run over by a 20m trawler in SA, it just floated straight back up to the surface with only minor damage to the outboard!
In the UK there are no laws about boat equipment, training or marking, one of the things that leads to so many dickheads in speedboats or on Jetskis at popular beaches in the summer.
If you are not used to handling and launching boats, get some training. It is not exactly rocket science, but knowing how your boat works is useful. A couple of seasons ago I went to help a brand new shiny Selvia which had broken down. The skipper was just grinding on the starter and couldn't understand why it wouldn't go. He got quite embaressed when i pointed out the fuel line was not connected:head
Launching is another thing which takes a bit of thought and practise. One of my pet peeves is weekend warriors who turn up and park their trailer in the middle of the slip while they get the boat ready, put on wetsuits etc, blocking the slip for everyone else. Watching people cock up launching is always funny, I've lost count of the number of posh cars that I have seen parked in the sea due to launching mistakes (BMWs are always my favourites!)
cheers
dave
www.spearo.co.uk

 

[miles]

Hiya

One of my pet peeves is weekend warriors who turn up and park their trailer in the middle of the slip while they get the boat ready, put on wetsuits etc, blocking the slip for everyone else

One of my favourite ways of killing time is to spend a Saturday, especially a HOT day at the lauching ramp!! Its better than going to see a stand-up comedy show!! EVEN more so during holiday season when you get LOADS of in-experienced boaters!!

Omega3, pic#1 is water breaking over Bellows Rock, which is a short distance from Cape Point. A favourite haunt of many of Cape Towns spearo's. The fourth picture is a 28' boat passing us in a bumpy sea. Unfortunately, pictures can't really show how bad a sea looks.

The KalkBay picture: BOTH they guys on the wall got washed off!! They were holiday makers who didn't heed the warnings of the locals. Fortunately, they escaped unscathed, with only their ego in tatters!!

Regards
miles

 

[Mr. X]

...Launching is another thing which takes a bit of thought and practise. One of my pet peeves is weekend warriors who turn up and park their trailer in the middle of the slip while they get the boat ready, put on wetsuits etc, blocking the slip for everyone else. Watching people cock up launching is always funny, I've lost count of the number of posh cars that I have seen parked in the sea due to launching mistakes (BMWs are always my favourites!)
cheers
dave
www.spearo.co.uk

rofl...there is something about BMWs isn't there.

I should not laugh too much, I would be making all those horrible cock-ups without some hands-on or training.

6,500 GBP ...pity we didn't have some big Tuna to help offset costs! I'd hate to sink that much, metaphorically & literally, or have to abandon it. Those C-Ski 440s do seem pretty sweeet.

I think my friend got his dory, inc. trailer & engine about 1200-1600?...he just missed one for 900.


Miles, re. those pictures - holy sh*t!

re. the Semi Rigid Hysucat, seems like a particularly cool boat. Why did you get rid of it if you were so pleased with it. Hydro-foil seems pretty fancy...were you tempted to try it again?

Those SA boating rules speak volumes. Sounds like somebody put a lot of thought & experience into them.

Fondueset, nice yak. Do you take your float when you go in the kayak?

 

[land shark]

miles
The Bass Federation up here educates folks that if your in the launch more than 30 seconds your doing somthing wrong. Its funny,now you see kids eagerly waiting to get out with their dads timing them.

 

[SurfnSpear]

Hey Mr. X....I just saw the Hobie Mirage system http://www.hobie-kayak.com/ this weekend at the London Boat show and it might be a nice idea for you. You have twin engines...your arms and you legs.rofl

 

[Mr. X]

Hey Mr. X....I just saw the Hobie Mirage system http://www.hobie-kayak.com/ this weekend at the London Boat show and it might be a nice idea for you. You have twin engines...your arms and you legs.rofl

Interesting...looks a bit gimmicky but it makes sense, your biggest muscles are in your legs. I am quite a keen cyclist -- so it would be good harness some of that power.

The thing that caught my eye more (apart from the mandatory young blonde in the front of the tandem) was the sail kit. I saw a program in the US where there are organised sea kayak trips (it looked like the Carribean) where they use sail equipped kayaks. The sail is just a supplementary power source, used when the opportunity presents itself. There are some other interesting ideas out there on the internet: one guy out in Hawaii fitted an outrigger & sail to his sit-on kayak .

It is looking highly likely that I will get some kind of Kayak this year (and will have to work on the boat for next year). What do I need?

- Kayak, I'm pretty much set on Cobra Tandem or Ocean Kayak Malibu 2 (or similar)

- what about paddles...anything special needed?

- the dive-kayak site seems mainly aimed at scuba diver & recommend hatches. Are hatches worthwhile for spearing (e.g. one big one for mask, etc?)? I thought I read somewhere that you might be better off without hatches, because if they get waterlogged it can sink (surely they have some sealed buoyancy-- either foam or chambers?).

- any suggestions for roof-racks? There is a manufacturers rack available for my car but I read somewhere that Thule & Yakima have some interchangeable parts -- which seems like it might be a better bet (specially if I change car). What about those inexpensive foam & strap systems?

- any extras recommended? (Carry handles, side lines, which back rests)

[I sometimes get the feeling I am walking in Fonduesets footsteps!]

 

[Huan]

Mr X
I have an OK scupper pro and I find it great , fast and good carrying capacity.
regarding hatches I think that a hatch is always handy as a secure place to stow gear that won't allow stuff to dissappear if you capsize.
regarding Paddles I have a bog standard Prijon paddle and it seems fine remember it's the person on the end that makes the real difference.
Racks AFAIK Yakima aren't sold here in europe I am open to correction but I think that Thule make the best racks.
Stay away from the soft pads they aren't designed for the weight of a kayak and aren't secure plus your roof will suffer.
Get a small grapple type anchor and a reasonable amount of 6-8mm rope Nylon is good because it sinks and is strong but polypropylene is cheap and works well.
Make a winder to allow the rope to be stored easily on board .
Fix an attachment to your paddle that is secure, you really don't want your paddle to disappear while you are dealing with a fish.

 

[dave]

Fix an attachment to your paddle that is secure, you really don't want your paddle to disappear while you are dealing with a fish.

I would make sure everything is attached securely,as particularly when you are learning it is more a matter of when you will capsize rather than if!

Rergarding kayaks, i looked at the Malibu 2, but found it a bit of a pig to paddle compared to the scupper pro, or perception freedom which I eventually bought
cheers
dave
www.spearo.co.uk
www.c-ski.co.uk

 

[seaman]

Ooh...http://www.panga.com/...that's nice. (Are you sure it's not 14ft?). That looks expensive ... or are these US-style low prices (or less)? I want one! (Fight it:martial it's just that fancy American marketing creating a desire for unnecessary things...oh its no good:inlove rofl). Hooh..check out this one: Panga Boat - PANGA MARINE - Panga Boats Love those sun canopies (not exactly essential equipment here, sigh ...lucky we have global warming to look forward too(sic)).

Actually is 11,7, and the one that i own is not as fancy as the ones depicted in the link you posted, is made locally by artesanal craftmanship, and are sea worthy indeed!! same as kayaks and cats, the traditional designs prove a 100% in real sea conditions ... give a panga a try, so grab one when you can ..

 

[Fondueset]

I can vouch for the malibu2 being extremely durable and stable. Two adults are no problem - or one and two kids. (there are three seats). For a rack I use a couple of those round foam thingies kids play with in the water - a couple nylon straps and a rope attaching the bow to the bumper - to keep in down. The straps just run through the doorframes before you close them.

Alternately I throw it in the back of a small pickup and secure with bungies.

 

[Fish Tale]

On the question of Kayak as dive platform- Here's a web site that has lots of great articles on different aspects of Kayak Diving.

Link: http://www.topkayaker.net/Articles/FishDive/Dive.htm

Another kayak that is IMO suitable for kayak diving is the Ocean Kayak Sidekick. Mrs Fish and I each own one. We like the boat a lot. We fish and dive off Gulf of Mexico beaches from ours. We have short distances to paddle to get to our dive spots. Our farthest dive site is one mile from the launch site. Most of our dive spots are 200 yds to a half mile from the public access point. The sidekick is not fast or quiet. It doesn't track well compared to some boats, which IMO makes it real easy to surf back onto the beach without broaching. Loaded down we cruise at about 3.8 MPH on a calm day. The Sidekick was designed to carry an adult + a small child or dog on the front deck. It's extreemely stable because it's secondary displacement has been pushed farther forward and aft than other boats it's length (12'-4" OAL). Being 32 inches wide also helps with stability. The stability makes it easy to sit sideways in sloppy water or even turn around completely backwards to work on gear. The extra stability is nice when you're tired after a dive. The extra displacement up front and an upturned bow allow for gear/ fish storage on deck without worry of the bow pearling while paddling into chop. The boat is a high and dry ride compared to most SOT yaks. The tank well is deep and has ample room for an aluminum 80 mounted in a weight integrated BC. It comes equiped with tank well bungies, two seats, center hatch with molded in bucket, cary handles, and three paddle keeper bungies along the gunwales which do a great job of securing spearguns against the hull. The front deck area is recessed about 3 inches below the gunwales and we've replaced the child seat with bungee coverage for the entire front deck. I also added a 6 inch hatch in the front deck to allow some access into the space under the front deck. Here in Florida the retail on a Sidekick is about $560. but you can often get em cheaper by purchasing last years model or buying a lightly used demo boat. Take one for a test paddle before you decide to buy one.

 

[Mr. X]

Fondueset, I hadn't thought of using all 3 seat (single + double positions) at the same time. That would be v. handy if you had a couple of small kids to deal with.

Thanks Fish Tale, the Side Kick is definitely a kayak I would consider. Actually it would probably be ideal at the moment...although a full 2-seater might be a better bet longer term. They are not common in the UK though, & as they are imported from the USA, like most sit-on Kayaks they are still quite pricey here. I am keeping my eyes open -- & trying to keep an open mind on models/make to made the job a little easier. I live not too far from the UK importer of Cobra products ...unfortunately a new Cobra is the most expensive option (by far) - although possibly the best match for myneeds too (Tandem - high carry capacity, relatively short length, good stability, relatively light for a 2 seater).

 

[Mr. X]

Hi guys
Hope you don't mind me visiting your thread, my brother (old man Dave) suggested i have a look as you have a similar site to ours. I've also got a message for Mr X if you are still looking for a small boat, check out PORTA BOAT on the web. I've had one for about 5 years (amongst others) defiantly had some fun in that thing! Check it out you will be amazed. anyhow must go Dave's gone night diving so I'm off to take some more pics

Thanks for that foxfish! I hope you don't mind me moving it from the Dorset thread here to the boat thread (feel free to add your thoughts & experiences).

A folding boat (http://www.portabote.com/index.html) neat! I wonder how fast the big one goes with the 9.5Hp motor & 2 or 3 people in it? Presumably these things will sink if water logged(...although they have a picture of a girl rowing one that is almost full of water!)? Do you use a petrol or electric motor? That actually might be a very practical boat for me...the easier it is to transport, the more more often/likely it will be taken & used (I hate buying stuff that doesn't get used).