Specialized guns

[Oldsarge]

Since I now have what I think is a really general gun, suitable for most everything off the California Coast, I an now giving some little thought to more specific types/styles/sizes/etc. Even though I will likely in the next couple of years cut my gun safe down to two rifles and two or three shotguns, I am a little worried about acquiring a whole damned garage-full of spearguns so I am trying to stay a flexible as possible. The day I need a Bluewater cannon is either far off or will never come but I can see real use for a rock-and-cave gun. I would see this as one that can throw a short but heavy spear into grouper/snapper/hogfish and the like at short ranges and without too much worry of seeing the spear bent into expensive uselessness. Any suggestions for either a off-the-shelf or ideas about a custom built? What about rollerguns?

Thanx,

 

[land shark]

 

[Oldsarge]

Oh, hah hah! And it wouldn't be legal in Baja, anyway. Firearms are forbidden. Sheesh!
:rofl :rofl :rofl

 

[spaghetti]

ciao Sarge. I'm not sure I understand (my poor english...) but a rock and cave gun, which at the same time has also the power to pierce big fish in open water, already exists in every italian spearos' gunbag: it's a pneumatic gun with a power regulator switch. Don't believe what some people say: they say airguns are noisy (not so much), hard to load (not for you and me), unaccurate (just try, then talk. And after all, a grouper in a cave is not a sniper's job), need complicated and expensive maintenance (simply not true).
We use it both for groupers in cave and for amberjacks in open water. 50 years , half a century of our spearfishing tradition shows that they are much more better than many people think.
Pneumatic guns are artworks, pneumatics are a heaven sent all-purpose spearing machine!

 

[Oldsarge]

Hmmmmm, any particular brand you recommend?

 

[foxfish]

Hi Sarge you have just got to join the dark side. Have a look at Portinfer post on the Guernsey thread. He managed to shoot the fastest fish we have with a 900 mamba air gun. I own one & can assure you they are amazingly powerful for such a short gun.

 

[Old Man Dave]

Maori Mamba

http://www.maorisub.it/

Dave

 

[spaghetti]

Hmmmmm

rofl Dont' know why, but I would pay real money just to hear the sound of your "Hmmmmmm". rofl
However, what Old Dave and Foxfish say about the Mamba is true: very effective gun, as also Miles stated in his "Dummies Guide".
I'm just not sure that it's the ideal rock-and-cave gun you're asking for: a 90 maybe too long for cave hunting, and a Mamba-propelled shaft too fast too shoot into rocky holes. But this is just my presumption.
No, I was thinking about something more "classic": Sten 100cm or Medisten (the legend!), or otherwise more modern Cyrano or Stealth...
But we all should know a bit more about your requirements..

 

[Old Man Dave]

Yes. The mamba is not really a cave/hole gun but it does demonstrate what a compressed air gun can achieve.

We have a style of fishing that involves looking for fish in holes in the reef. The only 2 target fish species are wrasse and conger eels. Although I no longer do this I have done a lot of this type of fishing in the past. Wrasse grow to about 10lb and conger eels over 100lb. Wrasse are very akin to snapper and grouper although a bit smaller in terms of maximum size they average 5lb. Conger eels are notorious for their strength and tenacity.

I would only ever use a heavy duty compressed air gun for this type of fishing. Length would be 60 to 90 cm and a double barb head on an 8mm shaft would be my choice.

The main advantage of these guns are; high power at short range (loads of "punch"), easy to handle (you can grab the barrel, use 2 hands, fire with the barrel alongside your head - useful when hunting narrow holes), clean lines (only use 1 or 2 wraps of heavy line). rugged construction (band guns are easily damaged on rocks/reefs, etc, etc.

I could go on, but as far as I am concerned you can't beat an air gun for reefing. In your terms Sarge any band gun (even roller guns) should be equated to a rifle but an air gun is like a pistol grip (no stock) shot gun.

Dave .

 

[spaghetti]

Quote Old Man Dave totally. Especially when talking about heavy duty gun: that's the Medisten, the legend.
It's just 70 or 75cm long, but pressurized at 30 atm (or 30bar) with an 8mm shaft it's pure power in smallest handy size. I'm not any champion at all, I'm nobody, but with this gun (my 1993 Medisten) I stoned groupers up to 18kg, pierced dentex in aspetto, overspeeded quick bass in the waves.
It's good for everything, and for us over 35 italian spearos it's THE gun for groupers.
--(while longer ones - Sten 100 or 130 - are still used in the Med for bluewater hunting.

 

[Oldsarge]

. . . any band gun (even roller guns) should be equated to a rifle but an air gun is like a pistol grip (no stock) shot gun.

Dave .

Ah, the achetypal shortrange murderer, the sawed-off shotgun! :martial Unfortunately, I am unable to find anywhere on the net where there is a US dealer for such artillary. Pity, because that sounds very like what I think need. After all, I've got a compressor in the shop so reloading is nooooo problemo! This deserves further investigation, and possibly a discussion with Papa Smurf re: "the Shop".

 

[spaghetti]

Unfortunately, I am unable to find anywhere on the net where there is a US dealer for such artillary. Pity, because that sounds very like what I think need. QUOTE]
Sarge, FIY, the Us West Coast dealer for the Sten airgun series is one of us: DB forum member ZOHARA (Zack). I guess he deals the latest ugraded version of it.
--Then to put an end to my Medisten lyrical poem, I'll finish off by saying that they recently made a poll on a magazine among 101 competitive and ex competitive italian spearos for the period between the 60's and the late 80's. Question was: which gun gave them the greatest satisfactions. The most voted gun was the Medisten, the legend!
PS: I would never suggest you a gun like many others: every had is a brain. But this is a piece of history and, like it or not, it's a real classic

 

[fuzz]

Sarge, pneumatics are illegal to use in Baja.

 

[Oldsarge]

Ah! Thanx for the update. That sort of gives me freedom from choice. :rofl

 

[spaghetti]

Sarge, pneumatics are illegal to use in Baja.

Really? Why?
BTW: I revivalled my old Medisten todayin your honor: conger caught and mullet lost (badly hit in the soft side of his belly: meat broken and fish fled).

Bye Sarge. hope I've not annoyed you too much

 

[Oldsarge]

Baja California is a hellhole of the drug trade and the smugglers are among the nastiest people on Earth. Instead of regular police, then, the Mexican government mobilized the Army and all non-military firearms are illegal including airguns, hence pneumatic spearguns are a no-no. Damn!

 

[spaghetti]

Baja California is a hellhole of the drug trade and the smugglers are among the nastiest people on Earth. Instead of regular police, then, the Mexican government mobilized the Army and all non-military firearms are illegal including airguns, hence pneumatic spearguns are a no-no. Damn!

Jolly Unfortunate! You'll have to do cave hunting with non-specialized guns! rofl rofl rofl rofl :rcard
:head
rofl

 

[jimqpublic]

It's my understanding that all spearguns were banned and Jay Riffe lobbied the government to allow spearing. Since of course his are powered by rubber bands*... you get the rest.

Of course it's probably easier to convince someone that a rubber band powered device is not as threatening as a compressed gas gun.

*Source: Read somewhere on the internet, circa 2006.

 

[Oldsarge]

That's got a kind of dubious internet rumor sound to it. Giving a source would make that statement more believable. Sorry, but us historians have this obsession for footnotes and citing sources.

 

[Mr. X]

Sarge, I'm curious as to what your current all round west coast gun is?

I have also been thinking about a cave/reef/gulley gun. The Foxy Bros. & Gunernsey spearos are a major influence these days, so their enthusiasm for airguns has piqued my interest too. Although, I must admit, I feel a strong affinity for band guns -- just love the simplicity of them (I'm sure archers would understand this).

I have a SeacSub apnea catalog next to me. It features Single & Dual Power Asso pneumatics (the muzzle looks remarkably like the Mambas). They are available in sizes inc. 30cm, 40cm, 55.5cm (the 50), 69cm (the 65) and 79cm (the 75), 90, 115 and 135cm. If they interest you, you might want to look at the DOrset 2006 thread, somebody mentioned using a 50cm Asso.

I am also thinking about something like a 60cm Cressi Commanche, possibly with a trident (Spaghetti recently explained how he uses one as his cave gun in poor viz conditions, rather than the usual pneumatic, so it can become the main gun if viz gets very bad). The fish here in the UK are relatively small & I believe tridents are supposed to be more likely to stun the fish and so reduce tangling. The trident vs. Tahiatian tip is discussed in detail in earlier threads - so I won't do it again here.

I also have an Omer catalog next to me, it features a pneumatic called the Tempest (40/50/70 with or without power regulator) and also the band powered Dragon Cave CM60 (item C602C) & the band powered Excalibur Cave (45/55/65/75) - which both feature trident tips.

Another option: You mention small gun & big spear. The other gun I am considering is a small Rob Allen. Saw a picture of a guy called Pablo with a huge Ling Cod up near Seattle using a 70cm RA railgun with reel (I used to live in the area so it caught my eye [see blottom of page]:

Although 65cm is, I think, currently the smallest size RA advertised, they will still make guns custom lengths to order. I have heard of (and seen pictures of) 50cm Rob Allen guns (see the v. short RA railgun featured on Norcal website's boogey board float project):
http://www.norcalfreedive.com/catalog/tips.php

Rob Allen offer a range of spear diameters (with names like "Stiletto" & "Thunder stick"!) & have I think the knowledge & experience to create a properly balanced gun. Equipped with one or 2x 16mm bulk rubber bands or a single 20mm rubber, depending on your preference. You can opted for a breakaway rig if you are expecting really big fish or a reel if that floats your boat.