Sporasub fins the same as Mares?

[Sickboy]

Hello all. Still looking for a good pair of fins for scuba and free diving. Pretty much decided on the Mares Quattro Power full-foot fins, when I get an email from DiveInn saying the Sporasub Cruise fins are exactly the same, only cheaper. See here: http://www.scubastore.com/producte.asp?id=18&id_modelo=1256&desde=0

The Cruise certainly looks identical to the Mares Power fins here: http://www.mares.com/en/pinne/plaav4pow_en.html in proportions and all, but I was wondering if there might be a difference in stiffness? I've read that Mares and Sporasub are both made at the same factory (HTM), so theoretically they should be identical?! Anyone know for sure?

To make matters worse, I read about the SPORASUB H.DESSAULT *real* freediving fins in the "Fins for Novice" thread, also at diveinn here: http://www.scubastore.com/producte.asp?id=18&id_modelo=2500&desde=0 which are *cheaper* than the Cruise fins by about $10.

Now I can't decide what to get; I would *love* to get the Dessault fins as they would be more powerful and are cheaper, but they may be too long (and fragile?) when travelling on scuba trips!

The best would be to get both, and actually together they cost just over what a single pair of Mares Power fins cost in some places. Anyone got any suggestions? Is the quality of Sporasub fins up to standard? Should I just get the Cruise for now, and save up for better long-fins like Picasso or Cressi?

Any help would be appreciated! TIA.

Terry

 

[Angus]

change of perspective

Dear Terry, I think you are going about this with the wrong perspective. Saving money is ok but not when it comes to this. You need to buy the fins that you find the most comfortable. So you save 10, 20, 100 bucks only to discover that you aren't comfortable or don't get the performance you wanted. My brother, Octo made this mistake when he bought his 5mm Picasso wetsuit because it was $200 cheaper than the 7mm. Unfortunately he lives on the central coast of California which is cold year round. Now he is going to buy the 7mm because so he can stay in longer. His plan to save money ended up costing him $400 or diving time. Fortunately in this example he can use his 5mm in warmer conditions so in the long run he will be okay. He did the same thing when he first started thinking about freediving and rushed out an bought a monofin. Several weeks later he bought his Picasso Black Teams. I also use Picasso Black Team fins which cost $150 and require me to use booties, another $60 dollars. I love them. I am now planning to buy Picasso's carbon fins next year because of the increased range and depth. They run about $400 dollarsl. But each dive will have 10 more meters - easily because of this. I think that is cheap at the price. Dive with the fins and find out what is comfortable for you and then buy that fin. If you really like a more expensive fin figure other places in you life to save. I always cut back on my beer budget. This is not advice from a rich guy with money to burn. I'm in graduate school and have two children - I have very little money. Diving is at the top of my personal food chain. Hope this helps, Good diving, Angus. (now I have to get back to this paper on Pacinian and Meissner corpuscles - don't l you wish you were me?)

 

[freediver48]

Hi,

Angus is right, saving money up front may quite false, in particular when you think about how long they last. I just tossed a pair of Cressi Rodines after something like 25 years. I loved those fins, and they were major bucks when I bought them, but I got major miles out of them in both fresh and salt water ( Great Lakes, Atlanatic and Pacific coasts). On that note, you might want to try some carbon fins, I like Angus, want to replace my Black Teams with Carbon Blades.

Best wishes,

Doug Morgan,
Lantzville, B.C.

 

[apnea newbie]

Sporasub Dessault

Hi there Sickboy !

I bought a pair of Sporasub H. Dessault with the Black blade which is the hardest one. They are great for freediving, but perhaps a bit to hard to Scuba on. Though i got a friend who Scubadives with the H.Dessault, he has got 2 sets of blades, the black one and a softer one, I dont remember the color. So what he does is that he simply changes the blade depending on if hes gonna freedive or not, and he likes them for scabadiving to.

The fin is 88 Cm long, thats almost a meter, though i dont think they are very fragile, they are plastic fins, so u can scratch punch and bend them very much. At least i did. I live in 2 different towns on weeks and weekends, so my fins travels alot, and nothing has happened to them. Though they get a little bruised on the edges, but what the heck, i bought them for usage so...

I dont know, but i think that fins made out of carbon are like more fragile. And a new pair of baldes for the H.Dessault only costs like 20 $ so one can afford if they break. Thats a bit different from buying a pair of Carbon blades for like 120$ just for the blades.

I recommend the sporasub H dessult, but i havent tried Cressi or Picasso, but u know that im satisfied with them and have friends that both scuba and freedive with em.

U can buy them at www.diveinn.com I did and they are cheap and fast.

hope I could help / Apnea Newbie.

 

[Sickboy]

Thanks a lot for the feedback everyone.

Angus & Freediver48: I understand you shouldn't skimp on cost when it comes to freediving equipment. It's just that I was not intending to buy a proper long-fin yet as most of my freediving here in Hong Kong is limited to 10m. That's why I thought the Mares Power/Sporasub Cruise fins would be ideal for my conditions. It was just the fact that I saw the H.Dessault fins for the same as the Cruise fins that I was really tempted to get them, just for the hell of it.

I think what I'll do is get the Cruise fins for now, which should be better than my current old Mares and still practical to take on Scuba trips, and then get some decent long-fins later, maybe when I go on the freediving course in Thailand.

Out of interest, does anyone use freediving fins for scuba diving regularly? I've heard that many people prefer them, and I've seen divemasters and instructors using them. Are they pretty much as manouverable as regular scuba fins? I'm not talking about for caving or deep wreck penetration, but can you still scull and frog kick with them?

Thanks again for your help.

Terry

 

[Angus]

Only 10m

Terry, 10m is plenty of depth for a long fin. In winter I train in the pool, which is only 1.8m deep in my longfins. The thing with long fins is that you can overpower them. So the more load you are pushing (drag and mass contribute to load pressures) the more inertia you have to overcome. If you over torque the fin the water flows off the fin in the wrong direction and spills off the sides which gives little or no forward thrust. In other words you lose thrust energy which is directly proportional to the amount of water you push in the opposite direction you want to travel. The stiffer the fin the harder it is to overpower but the more stress you put on your ankles and knees which is one of the reasons that some people suggest a softer fin for beginners. I think that is bunk. If a person is reasonably fit and does not have any significant joint defects any fin will work. With practice a long fin will work with scuba but you won't have front end acceleration when going from hanging motionless to moving quickly. On the other hand there is still an increased economy of energy expenditure once you are moving so you should use less oxygen which translates to longer dive times regardless of the type of diving you are doing; freediving or scuba. I think some of these boundaries are more the result of tradition and beliefs than of any sound engineering principles. Most of the scuba people I have talked to about aren't aware of longfins or if they are think of them as only good for freediving. Why? The water doesn't change its properties because you strap on a tank. Yes there is more mass and drag so does that mean that only really thin free divers should use long fins and the rest of us pot bellied stallions should not? I am close to foot taller and 50lbs heavier than Octo yet his Black Teams are just as long as mine yet he has trouble keeping up with me even though he has the mass+resistance/thrust advantage. Isn't there a dive shop around that will let you try different fins? I still think you are better off keeping your old Mares and buying a good pair of long fins (one that you like because it is comfortable and works for you) and use the long fins a lot long before you take your freediving class. (You might want to see what Octo has to say about this as he just finished a four day freediving course and only had his long fins for a couple of months.) That way you have your old Mares, which are costing you nothing at this point, to clunk around in, and longfins for real diving. Have you ever used a good longfin? I cannot imagine using a short fin again. Try some - you will love them, Warmly, Angus

 

[freediver48]

Hi,

Here is another highly biased response. Long fins are great for scuba! For sure keep your old fins, but at least give the long fins a shot. I spearfish in 30 ft of water and anytime you can get them submerged they are great. Yes, you can do other strokes with them, better I would suggest than with the new one way fins like the Force fins and Volos. I routinely alternate my strokes between
flutter, frog, side, and dolphin. They are particularly strong in dolphin mode, which is very powerful. Where they are a bit different in scuba mode is the number of strokes per minute. Generally when I'm scuba diving I'm a bit slower than in freedive mode. The first time I used the long fins I was sold, it was like underwater Tai Chi, long smooth strokes. They are worth a try, but as I said I'm highly biased towards them. In the final analysis,
whatever you are most comfortable with are the best fins for you.

Best wishes,

Freediver48

 

[Jon]

In answer to your original question, yes, the cruise and the quatrro power are the same fin.
When I first started to get serious about freediving I bought a pair of avanti-L's. The were the predessesor to the quatrro powers. I sold them in pretty short order to move up to a real freediving fin. My current favorite is the Picasso black line. I have had mine for a few years and use them for everything that I can. I freedive and scuba dive with them. If I could find a pair to fit over my drysuit boots I would use them all of the time.
I actually find a stiffer freediving fin to be a bit better for scuba. You move slower and have more junk to push through the water with scuba; so, the extra force from the freediving blade really helps to move you along.
I strongly suggest that you get the "real deal" freediving fins and not waste your money on the others.
Carbon fins are in my future. I just don't have the cash for them yet. Kirk Krak did a nice write up on them in the latest FREEDIVING magazine.

JON

 

[apnea newbie]

Freediving magazine ?

Hi Jon !

U said u read an article in an freediving magazine...
Do u have a webpage or something for that magazine ? I want to get a freediving magazine on regular basis, but there are none in sweden i think

Cheers / Apnea Newbie

 

[Stephan Whelan]

UK Freediver

Apnea Newbie,

Freediver, based out of the UK and run by Howard Jones and members of the UK Freediving Team can be found at http://www.freediver.co.uk

They are the official AIDA magazine and is published every month or two months, I can't remember.

 

[apnea newbie]

Thx !

Thank you Stephan !

Ill go check it out right away

 

[Erik]

Re: Freediving magazine ?

Originally posted by apnea newbie
Hi Jon !

U said u read an article in an freediving magazine...
Do u have a webpage or something for that magazine ? I want to get a freediving magazine on regular basis, but there are none in sweden i think

Cheers / Apnea Newbie

Hey buddy, I have a subscription to Freediver for a year, and there is some good info that doesn't go on the website in there.
Another good website is www.freediving.at , from Austria. There is some good video, and excellent links.
Cheers, Erik

 

[g_atchley]

OK, regarding freediving fins, now I'm paranoid. I bought a pair of fins 2 years ago that have served me well. They are Tigulio "Grinta" and are my first and only freedive fins. Does anyone know how these compare with what's currently on the market? I've never seen or heard any discussion of them and now I think I'm missing out.

Any input would be geatfully appreciated.

 

[Erik]

Plastic Fins

Hi Greg, I have never used those fins, but I've seen them on a few shopping sites. If you are happy with them, then that's all that matters, especially if they are comfortable. All the plastic fins I've tried feel pretty much the same as far as power and the frequency required, so I can't see how they would not be comparable to any other plastic fin, except maybe durability of the fin or footpocket, depending on the make.
That said, I can't describe to you the difference that a carbon-polymer fin has made for me. I don't like my plastic fins anymore, they are there for backup only, or for the odd friend that wants to try them. My new fins are light and very powerful, but do not require more effort, just a different kind of effort. The rebound of the fin is different, and they really push me along. It took a while to get the feel for them, but it was worth the few days of floundering around.
Cheers,
Erik :^)

 

[g_atchley]

Thanks for the reply, Erik. Really the only thing I wonder about is weight. They do seem a bit heavy and I'm sure they are compared to carbon fiber blades. Right, so they'll do for now. So far they have managed well enough to get me down and back without incident.

Anyway, which ones have you attached to your feet? They sound pretty flash.

 

[Erik]

Flash fins

Hi greg, the fins I have now are the Sporasub Radical, which are carbon encased in a polymer. Carbons damage easily, even snap in half. These are tough because of the polymer, but still have the power of carbon. it's a bit of a compromise, but being a student with limited funds, I have to compromise. Some day I'll get a pair of Em-Technique fins from Greece, but these will do for now. They helped me get a PB of -42 metres last month, and I'm going to try for deeper this weekend.
I bought these fins up here in Canada, but you can get them at Diveinn.com for 111 US$, plus shipping. Most carbon fins are in the 500$US range, so they are a great buy, and they are very good quality....extremely comfortable foot pockets as well.
Cheers,
Erik Y.

 

[Cliff Etzel]

How are the foot pockets?

One of the biggest reasons why I have stuck with the Picasso line of fins is because of the cold molded foot pockets that are on all their fins. I have wide, flat feet and so far I haven't found another pair of fins that fit as well as these do. Also, I find that the energy transfer is the best that I have experienced so far by any manufacturer.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Erik]

Power

Hi Cliff, my Sporasub pockets are great, much better than my Cressi's, plus they will accept other types of blade.
I know that Kirk Krack, Mandy-Rae, and I believe Tanya Streeter all use this footpocket due to it's comfort and interchangeability.
Will Picasso and OMER pockets take other blades, say Em-Technique, C-4, and each others' blades?
Cheers,
Erik Y.

 

[Cliff Etzel]

I'm not sure on the interchangeablility of the different fin blades to the foot pockets.

I have been looking to go with a higher performance fin (I want to Picasso Carbono 21 green), but at over $450.00 U.S. I just can't justify the expense.

I have been seriously looking at the Radicals due the great price from Diveinn (They should be paying all of us a commission for the referrals from this web site! - LOL!)

I may end up getting a pair, even though I have a true love for Picasso's products - We'll see though...

 

[PoseidonSv]

Re: change of perspective

Why is Picasso America OVERPRICING theri sales of Picasso equipment in the USA?

Anti Thrust laws anyone?

Dear Terry, I think you are going about this with the wrong perspective. Saving money is ok but not when it comes to this. You need to buy the fins that you find the most comfortable. So you save 10, 20, 100 bucks only to discover that you aren't comfortable or don't get the performance you wanted. My brother, Octo made this mistake when he bought his 5mm Picasso wetsuit because it was $200 cheaper than the 7mm. Unfortunately he lives on the central coast of California which is cold year round. Now he is going to buy the 7mm because so he can stay in longer. His plan to save money ended up costing him $400 or diving time. Fortunately in this example he can use his 5mm in warmer conditions so in the long run he will be okay. He did the same thing when he first started thinking about freediving and rushed out an bought a monofin. Several weeks later he bought his Picasso Black Teams. I also use Picasso Black Team fins which cost $150 and require me to use booties, another $60 dollars. I love them. I am now planning to buy Picasso's carbon fins next year because of the increased range and depth. They run about $400 dollarsl. But each dive will have 10 more meters - easily because of this. I think that is cheap at the price. Dive with the fins and find out what is comfortable for you and then buy that fin. If you really like a more expensive fin figure other places in you life to save. I always cut back on my beer budget. This is not advice from a rich guy with money to burn. I'm in graduate school and have two children - I have very little money. Diving is at the top of my personal food chain. Hope this helps, Good diving, Angus. (now I have to get back to this paper on Pacinian and Meissner corpuscles - don't l you wish you were me?)