Static problems HELP PLEASE!!!

[wjohnson100]

With that software you can set up any workout you can imagine and run it totally eliminating the need for a stopwatch. I also encourage you to videotape your holds, as it gives you an indication of whether you come up clean everytime, which should be your goal, none of this BS about holding to light LMC as I have heard people say. No need to do that. Treat every long hold like a competition if that interests you, and come up and do SP everytime. Is good safety discipline even if you are just diving with buddies somewhere to show you are ok somehow when you come up. In competitions it is just formalized and done a certain way every time. ALL of my long holds are videotaped. It also gives you a way to check the time of the hold if you need to.

 

[ktreloar]

hey guys,

i know this is a pretty old post but just thought i would post some training progess... well cant really call it progress since i last posted which was when this post was created i havent made to much improvement. just to refresh, the last month and a half i have converted to full inhale diving and especially statics and dynamics. Before this i only ever did frc training and never inhaled. Static times were easy 4.30min frc first contraction round 3 mins. As well as doing comfortable 3-3.30min dives only limited by pressure at greater depths. now dive times have gone up 4 mins and statics 5mins.

however interestingly two things have happened.

now that i have started inhale statics again contractions come really late, longest time without contractions was 4.45mins with no breath up and one full breathe in and out. What was interesting was that this breath hold i bailed at just after 5min because i felt like i was going to samba. 3 contractions was all i had. This is common in just about all my holds after the first contraction regardless of what time i get them i can only go about 1.00-1.30 with contractions. Its hard to describe what happens, breathe hold feels great i get an urge to breathe then i nice soft contraction then next thing i know the next one is violent as. Not to mention when the contractions come on i feel so drained and weak, with little energy to push through them. These sort of contractions i would expect to have happened it i had of hyperventilated, but with my frc background i restrict breathing.
hmm very strange?!?!?!

the second thing thats interesting is the time that i get contractions on frc is getting longer and longer.. now 3.15 and they come on nice and light. but since im training full inhale i dont push into the holds and use them as a warm up only.

If anyone can offer some advice it would be really appreciated just feel like im getting know where...

Cheers guys

 

[Kars]

just feel like im getting know where...

Says the guy doing 4+ minutes without contractions in comfort...
Says the guy who's contractions in FRC are even backing off...

I'm envious of your ability and progress... Even though I did a 7' once last year...

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

ps thanks for the update, it's always nice to get one and learn what worked and what not.

 

[wjohnson100]

ktreloar,

Sounds like to me your body is reacting from hyperventillation even when you are not hyperventillating. Here is my theory, for what it is worth. When you hyperventillate, you establish a lower CO2 partial pressure in the lungs, which results in a lower blood CO2 concentration, causing all the negative effects of hyperventillation.

Your body learns what you teach it. For a long time you have been teaching it FRC with relatively normal CO2 and O2 levels in the lungs and blood. Your body has learned to react to that. When you all of a sudden introduce a full breath to the equation, CO2 partial pressures initially drop markedly in the lungs, and then in the blood, compared to a FRC hold. You may notice that you feel a bit loopy at the beginning of the hold. The full breath may have the effect of hyperventillating. Your CO2 receptors may have become desensitized by your FRC training, so that the effect of one full breath is amplified somewhat.

The good news here is that this is probably just a short term reaction by your body to the suddenly reduced CO2 levels. If you continue to train full breath for awhile, your CO2 receptors will regain some of their sensitivity, and your holds will probably be more normal for you.

Anyway, this is my bonehead theory, for what it is worth. Good luck.

 

[ktreloar]

hey kars,

thanks mate, made realise im making progress. I would be stoked to get to 7 mins in statics haha atm just have to stick with it and i think one day soon it will click haha well i hope any ways lol. hmm just would like to know what to do to help me with contractions i have tried 02 tables but they arent seeming help. At the moment im trying some apnea weights 2min static then leg curls until i cant go no further. Hopefully by doing this my body will adapt quicker to contractions and low 02.

could you recommend any tables that have helped you mate?

thanks,

ktrelaor

 

[Kars]

Maybe try the O2 crazy table. Relax, exhale everything, breath-hold, when you need to come up, inhale just a bit of air and continue hold until you need another sip. This way you hover around in low SAO2 for a long(er) time than doing one or two single max breath-holds. I think this table will fall nicely in line with your FRC, and provides great and efficient training for the experienced higher level freedivers.

Doing labour sounds like you're turning static into a 'static dynamic'.

Nice thoughts Johnson

Kars

 

[Gletwyn Rubidge]

QUOTE by WJOHNSON100

3. When you first start getting contractions, instead of the contractions, try this exercise - push air from your upper lung into your lower lung. Physically you will see your belly inflate. As the hold progresses, the pushes get more and more frequent, intense, and difficult, just like contractions. When they get too hard you can do normal contractions. I have gone all the way past 7:00 using this method with minimal discomfort and without doing normal contractions.

Tried that last nite - My dry ststic PB jumped by 38 sec from 6:23 to 7:01.
warm-up was 4 statics with abdominal breathing between: hold 2:30, 2 min ab breathing, hold 3:00 (2min abd breathing), hold 4:00 (3 min abd breathing), hold 5:00 (4 min abd breathing plus full breath) hold: 7:01 contractions came late in last hold at about 4 min - then I pushed air to abdomen as quoted above It helped me get past some contractions and weaken them - last 40 sec were rough, last 15 sec very tough - for the first time I felt I could hold to black-out - I had mild sama sensations in last 10 sec but was fresh mentally and physically on the first breath.

I have entered all my training over the last month and a half on twitter and will continue to do so over the next period Twitter

7 min was my winter goal but I will need to revise

Anaerobic training will become my main focus over the next month, diving if weather permits, plus some aerobic running.

 

[wjohnson100]

ktreloar,

Try the exercise Gletwyn quoted above. It might help deal with contractions, or at least make them manageable.

Gletwyn,

Cool, 7 was my goal when I first started training too. Now my goal is 8 (don't tell anyone because it is a secret LOL). We can all dream, I guess.

Far as the abdominal pushes go, I have taken them all the way to 7:18 before, so in a sense, they become your contractions. They have an entirely different feel from normal contractions though. Another thing you can do in combination with that is during the hold when you feel discomfort to pull the ribcage up using the intercostal muscles. Notice that neither of these things is the classic contraction.

 

[Gletwyn Rubidge]

wjohnson100 - yes I will try that intercostal thing - my new goal is also 8 min. I will try extend in a month or 6 weeks.

I have just finished my twice weekly excercise - uphill sprints on exhale - it is about 300 meters pretty steep - I warm up with stretching legs & 1km run, then rest with subnormal andominal breathing for 2 min, full exhale and charge up the hill for 90-120 m at 90-100% effort - after 90 - 120 I am pretty thirsty for air and then breath as required and complete the sprint - it normally decays into a trot about 180-200 from start as that is all I can manage. I then walk back down and take a 2 to 2.5 min rest with slow abdominal breathing and begin spring # 2.
After the 3rd I am thoroughly lactic in the legs and on # 4 I am weaker.

I did better tonight than b4 - preeviously I used some hyperventilation but the switch to slow abdominal breathing seems to have helped - less alkalinity in my blood I guess.

I expect to boost my anaerobic threshhold with this activity along with apnea walks and breathhold strength work for my legs(diving muscles).

 

[cdavis]

Kyle,

Looks like you are doing great, way ahead of me.

Harder contractions on full inhale and much easier ones on FRC is pretty normal, what the theory would predict.

Connor

 

[ktreloar]

Hey Guys just a training update,

did some statics over the week and did an 02 table with first breathold at 2.45min last breathold being 4.45min. (2mins rest) was quite surprised by the last breathold contractions came around 4 mins and were really nice and comfortable. Im finally getting used of the sensations of the dive response kicking in XD. will curious to see how i go next week might ramp the hold times up a bit to see how they go.

Frc still the same round 2.45 to 3.15min on the first hold without contractions just depends on how relaxed i am before the hold..

Cheers for the advice guys really helping,

Cdavis,

hows it going mate? hows the training going?

cheers guys.

 

[aharon solomons]

Gletwyn Rubidge,
please allow me to add my 2 cents worth ,I only dare do this because recently I had a diver ask me a question concerning a newly acquired and permanent heart condition .
There is an element of danger in the way you are doing this exercise,What's wrong with the classical version which is time tested ? Worst case scenario you give yourself a permanent heart condition that will exclude you from all competitive atheletic endevour at best a great quick track to the enemy of all elite freedivers, over training. Please remember "in order to achieve results we need an element of stress ,but stress does not produce results ,adaptation to stress does, too much stress and the result is entropy,collapse,or you hit the wall." finding the golden mean is the art of correct training .
The next thing someone will invent is doing this exercise empty lung in hand stand
with a nose clip ,equalising every 3 paces ,flat out 30 second sprints.
Please guys be responsible for the kind of information you publish with all humility perhaps some discussions are best left to private discussion.

 

[Gletwyn Rubidge]

Your 2 cents worth makes sense - it is a very tough excercise. As with any excercise one should build up on a gradient bit by bit or it could shock the system, heart or rapidly lead to overtraining.
My build-up to the uphill exhale sprints has included 3 months of training including long runs(6-20 km), fast shorter uphill running 3 x 1km, tables, exhale leg strengthening, dry statics, apnea walks - 3-5 sessions per weeks.

 

[aharon solomons]

Gletwyn Rubidge,
I am happy to hear there was a lead up to this exercise still cant see why you think this is superior to the classic version , one last comment our experiments have shown that aerobic exercise for freediving is not always complimentary to anaerobic exercise ,the trouble with aerobic exercise is it teaches the body to rely on a constant supply of o2 a bit contrary to the dictates of breath hold its a question of timing in your program
take care

 

[Gletwyn Rubidge]

aharon solomons,
Aerobic excercise is to speed up my recoveries in spearfishing mainly, or between freedives. Also it is desirable as a break from breathhold activities. In addition, here in South Africa our winter has been very cold for us - aerobic excercise improves my resistance to flu, and lastly, when I have a headche or sinus trouble it is preferable to skipping the statics / BH activities.

Bob Croft did a lot of running back inhis day - he dived well with vastly inferior fins.

On the exhale sprint - I do not believe it to be superior - I am testing it for potential superiority, for me - difficult though as it's hard (impossible) to hold other factors constant. Next season I intend to try a simultaneous multifactor experimental design - after setting up an intended training program and recording results, software (e.g. Design Expert) can be used to model the effect of each factor and detect interactions between factors.

 

[aharon solomons]

sorry about this but you touched a nerve Bob is a very dear friend of mine ,a couple of comments -
He did'nt wear fins for his records .
When training his unit he ran around them blowing cigar smoke in their faces.I am sure you dont want to imitate this .
I do apologise I understand now that my comments are not helpfull in your case .
I dont know if Bevan Durer is still diving but he was a superb minimalist and managed to do 90+mts CWT with a minimum of exercises and without
computer assistance .
Sorry I realise you must be well beyond the 90mt mark and looking much further.
Good luck with your program and let me know how it goes .
Take care
Aharon

 

[ktreloar]

just a quick one guys,

is it possible to increase anaerobic capacity or is there a limit to what you can achieve? just curious because my ability to work anaerobic hasnt improved just my comfort phase before the switch to anaerobic... hmm i know strange question, when i dived frc i could do really long static dives upwards of 3.30mins but if i was to move even after the dive response had kicked in my times would suffer. Im starting to think my previous diving on FRC has screwed my body up a bit... hmm any thoughts guys?

cheers,

Ktreloar

 

[cdavis]

Hi Kyle,

Anaerobic capacity can be improved with training. Not something I know much about, but Efattah has posted quite a bit about it.

FRC definitely makes for physiological changes in the body and how it responds to apnea. Most of that should wear off in 6 months or so, mine sure did, but why would you want it too?

DR never completely shuts off blood flow to the extremities, just reduces it and that reduction varies between divers, training level, amount of movement in the dive, what you ate for breakfast last year and all sorts of other things. You would expect to see shorter times if you start moving., because some of the extra c02 will get back to your core, and 02 levels will inevitably be lower. Also movement, i.e. physical exertion, tends to reduce the intensity of the DR.

My training has been zilch for the last 7 months, see the thread in Freediving stories on the last Bahama trip.

 

[Gletwyn Rubidge]

I believe it is possible - having done sprints, gym, and resistance training on breathhold / exhale - I noticed a big increase in my ability in these anaerobic activities.

Here are two links of interest:

Anaerobic Threshold

Media see 1st FAQ

 

[Mullins]

Why would you want to raise your anaerobic threshold for freediving?