Static problems HELP PLEASE!!!

[Gletwyn Rubidge]

To cope with high CO2, low O2 and lactic acid.

Check out the Switching to anaerobic process thread - Eric mentioned when starting ascent (more effort) during blood shift & vasoconstriction when legs are O2 deficient .

More at Methods of Freediver Training | Natalia Molchanova - free diving world champion items #3 & 4

 

[aharon solomons]

Why would you want to raise your anaerobic threshold for freediving?

I am extremely curious about your question Dave I am sure you know the obvious answers to this question
. it increases your tolerance to lactic acid-carbonic acid co2
. It recruits and trains different muscles
. Vastly improves both aerobic and anaerobic condition
etc. etc.
the comments previous to yours astonish me " is it possible to increase anaerobic capacity? answer vastly.
We have been using a program of full lung Hill repeats on a very steep slope , a system developed over 10 years that has proved very effective in combination with 50 mt and eventually 100mt dynamic short interval
repeats, this combined with a program of REST the subject most neglected in training has increased performance at depth dramatically all other factors being equal.
Now as I am sure mine is not an original point of view your question coming from a person of your experience appears to challenge this idea please elaborate I am curious.

 

[Mullins]

Anaerobic threshold is a measure of aerobic performance. It has nothing to do with your capacity to do anaerobic work, tolerate lactic acid etc. It is the point at which aerobic respiration cannot provide enough energy to maintain an exercise intensity; the proportion of energy supplied by anaerobic respiration rises and lactic acid begins to accumulate.

An elite endurance athlete has a very high AT, but this wouldn't necessarily make them a good freediver. Personally I think it's quite good to have an aerobic base so that you can recover from apnea exercise better, both between reps and between sessions. But it's kind of a peripheral thing and doesn't contribute to apnea performance directly.

If you do want to raise your AT, you need to do long aerobic sessions at just below AT intensity - not apnea sprints.

 

[aharon solomons]

Quite right slipped up on that one, terminology , I am in Israel using only Hebrew and got off on the wrong track, thoroughly understand both your
question and your explanation. Actually completely agree with you, too much aerobic work seems to build a dependance on a continuous supply of O2

 

[Gletwyn Rubidge]

Mullins,
Thank-you for that last comment - I was wrongly using the words anaerobic threshhold instead of anaerobic capacity. It makes sense that you queried the logic of increasing AT for freediving.

My mission with sprints is to increase aerobic capacity.

Since doing the sprints (on exhale) I have become a lot more comfortable on full exhale statics (dry) - I previously battled to reach 2 min but can now pretty comfortably exceed 2 min and have reached 2 min 40 sec.
During these dry exhale holds I experience very mild contractions and a large drop in heart rate - at around 2 min it drops to 30 BPM from an initial 50 bpm.

 

[ktreloar]

hey guys,

though i would throw in a training update, things have been going good in all areas but statics... apnea walks and dynamics have increased from rough 85m swims to easy 100m. (with bifins haha dont own a mono) not sure what the go is with statics just seem to be struggling to find a way to get the most out of my holds, starting to think that i might have to switch to no warm up with statics as well. Havent tried any yet because i thought they would be horribly uncomfortable. Shouldnt be to bad looking at it i suppose first breathe hold contractions come after 3mins. At the moment im doing 02 tables starting at 2.45min going up 20 seconds each time until 5mins with 2min. Any thoughts guys as to what i should do?

cheers

Kyle Treloar

 

[wjohnson100]

Personally, I would add empty lung holds to your workout in some fashion. But don't do them without doing some full lung holds too as this may have negative effects on your total lung capacity. Bottom line is you gotta keep stretching the lungs, rib cage, and diaphragm with full breath holds. The empty lung holds will help you, I think, even if you are still doing warm up holds. I wouldn't worry particularly about whether you are doing warmup holds or not. Your body will learn over time to accommodate breath holds. The hold I would be concerned with is your first warmup hold. You might notice over time that you are easily able to do longer and longer first warmup holds. At some point your first warmup hold will be so long that it is almost pointless to do warmup holds at all. Right now my first warmup hold is about 4:00-4:30, for example. If my first warmup hold gets up to 5:00-5:30, there would be no point in doing warmup holds. Just take that first one out as far as you want. Anyway, I think of it more as a development process than as a decision about warmup/no warmup. Eventually your body will make the decision for you. At least that is my take on it. But, whadoIknow? LOL

 

[ktreloar]

hey guys just chucking up another training update, um inhales statics seem to be struggling strangely though frc feels better, even after this period of time on inhale. just a question for those static gurus, im finding it really hard to relax during the static when the first urge followed by the first contraction come on. my body feels like it tenses up and body starts shuddering its the worst feeling ever aye. I have 3.30-4.00 mins of nice hold then the last 5.00mins feels like im tense and this horrid shuddering wont stop along with contractions. This happens on all inhale breatholds regardless how i breather hyperventilation has almost no effect besides making me dizzy at the start haha. just thought i would throw it up in the air because atm this is the only thing that is holding me back in static, i start tensing and shuddering contractions are horrid.

cheers guys.

ktreloar

oh well if all else fails back to frc diving

 

[wjohnson100]

Just curious, when does this extremely uncomfortable feeling start, how long are these inhale statics, when did you start getting contractions on your FRC statics and how long were they? How do FRC contractions compare with the feelings you are getting during inhale statics?

 

[Kars]

Hi Kyle,

Though I'm not a static guru, considering my one time 7' a mediocre achievement, I think your bodies reactions are mostly a product of programming.

It would be interesting to see you perform a few statics, empty, frc, full with a O2 and HR monitor recording. Complemented with your comments.

As for training a low O2, I find the Herbert Nitch Crasy table, an effective way of training. With a capeable buddy, start with empty lungs, when you need to breath inhale just a mouthfil and continue your breathhold until your lungs are full after all the breathholds and microinhales. This way one has a lot of quality training time dealing with low O2.

Finding your way around the nasty tension feeling associated with full lung diving might be my frog flow excercise. Where waterpressure relieves the tension, and the jumping provides a nice way to tension and relax the bodies muscles, the grace of waterflow over the body proving the mental massage.

Maybe it's wise to take off the watch and perform sub max full lungs rec dives, learning to keep relaxation as you take a slow double inhale, equaling a full inhale.

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

 

[ktreloar]

hey wjohnson,

when i do inhale statics im comfortable for at least the first 3.30mins to 4.00mins then after then it quite literally goes to s**t. So you could say this uncomfortable faze starts at 4.00 and builds really quickely by the time 5.00mins comes round im shuddering and the contractions are buckling. This is regardless of breathe up as well. i think working an active job then trying to do static might be a bad idea. Come to think of it 2 years ago i had the same problem so switched to frc diving and everything got better, longest FRC static was just over 4.30 and could have gone longer as well. Contractions come on nice and light and build no ugly feeling and at times i can make them lighter. Just seems that on inhale they are rough as hell. So FRC feels 100% better, i almost hate doing inhale statics atm just because they are so rough lol

Hi Kars,

interesting thoughts about your frog flow, in the ocean my inhale dives where im comfortable 10-20m 4min dives are possible if i have enough rest during the week, frc dives max out at around 3mins although have done 3.30min dives to 12m lol but yeah the pressure from the ocean makes things nicer.

cheers guys

ktreloar

 

[wjohnson100]

KTR, two techniques I want you to try next time you're in the water doing full breath statics. During the hold, when you get to the point where the discomfort starts, push air from your upper to your lower lung area. You should feel your belly inflate with the pressure as you do it. Push, then when the discomfort fades, release. At first use light pressure, and as the discomfort intensifies, use more pressure. Continue this as long as you can. You should see a reduction in the discomfort level. Another technique you can use is to pull up your rib cage using your intercostal muscles. Same thing, pull up, hold till the discomfort fades, then release. You can use this one in place of the other technique or whenever you feel the need. Using one or both of these techniques, you should see a drastic reduction in discomfort. When you get to the point that neither of these techniques work you can go straight away into normal contractions and then continue as usual. Once you are in contractions, focus on holding the contractions low in your belly and keeping the tension and other bad effects centered there and avoiding tension anywhere else. Good luck.

Regards,

Walt

 

[ktreloar]

wjohnson100

hey mate though i would let you know how im going, two weeks ago did some dry tables on the weekend and managed a really comfortable 5.30 min static like it was really easy statics started at like 4.15 and were really light and recovery was like one hook breathe. hmm kinda wish i kept going on that hold because my statics after a physical day of work are really crappy, contractions still come at the same time but are really intense when they do. i really think it has something to do with the mental and physical stress of the day. When i do statics im just really buggered and have no will power. Could you suggest any other static training that i could do after a working day that leave me feeling negative?

cheers mate

Ktreloar

 

[wjohnson100]

Only thing I can suggest is to try to do your training on weekends when you are rested and in better frame of mind. Overtraining saps your will power and it is hard to do great statics when the tank is empty. I know if I don't get a good night's sleep, I am lousy at statics.

 

[aharon solomons]

Always train statics first thing in the morning when the brain has the propensity to continue the alpha -theta -delta sleep patterns and the subconscious has had a good crap during the REM sleep phase .At the end of the day the subconscious is constipated with accumulated stresses ,so relaxation is very difficult.
there is an excellent breathing exercise that can be done at the end of the day that builds an incredible tolerance to CO2 ,slows the whole metabolism , and improves your static and postpones contractions The good news is it involves no breath hold and can be done 1 hr after a light meal ,the bad news is to be effective it must be done every day.

 

[wjohnson100]

Wow, what a tease, Aharon. Breathing exercise - do tell.

 

[aharon solomons]

if you are interested give me your email

 

[wjohnson100]

wjohnson100@hotmail.com

 

[ktreloar]

hi aharon,

jeez that exercise down sounds good, my email is shredisnotdead001@hotmail.com. cheers mate

ktreloar

 

[Kars]

F_Blofeld (at) Hotmail.com

Thanks Aharon!