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Stephane Mifsud 8'24': SAD NEWS

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Eric Fattah,
Thank you for the explanation of your feelings on objective verses subjective judging. I’m not in totally agreement, but I now see that you’re past position is not contradictive to this one.

To all,
One think I believe we all need to keep in mind is the AIDA is made up of several volunteer individuals who put effort and time into the organization and sport. No one board member or official speaks for all the views of the people in the organization. Unjust criticism destroys moral in a volunteer organization. If it continues the good people will decide it’s not worth the emotion drain and leave. Then the organization is only left with hardheaded folks who could care less what others think.

My opinion is we need to follow the democratic channels and address our opinions to our own AIDA national organizations officers to make effect change.
Jody
 
As I am rarely on forums, I did not know, that there was a discussion about the Mifsud Attempt here on DeeperBlue too.
After receiving several private mails informing and requesting to answer here, I send here the mail with delay, which I send on Satturday (20.3.) night to several other lists.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hello,
when I opened my computer tonight I was surprised about the quantity of mails I received since yesterday.
Reading them, I was even more surprised,... and finishing my reading, even angry.
So here my answer, as small resume and not too diplomatic...

To Eric Fattah:
As already several times in the past you spread again "news" without having any knowledge about it.
I told you already last year, at another case, stop this unserious behavior.
You try to discredit AIDA International and my person with false insults.
Probably you can impress some newcomers (innocent athletes) with your comments and false ideas but for sure not the huge group of insiders and people who spend a lot of time working for AIDA and the development of freediving.
If you really want to support freediving, then stay far away from all AIDA activities!!!


To Fred Buyle:
You insult me??
YOU are the master of discrediting AIDA.!
You have been the mainjudge there, major responsibility on you!
Why did you not immediatly tell Stephane about the missing okay sign???
(At least after checking the video)
Why do you lie on everybody about the video where it is clearly to see that Stephane does not give the OK sign because the zoom on his face is after the 20 seconds
(see concerning regulations 3.12)
People like you are the reason why judges are not empowered for the final decision on location and why we have a lot of unneccessary troubles.

The video insults are also concerning JF Julian, the french camerman, who did film everything correct, but now many people could think he is guilty for a bad video.
(of course JF does not have any clue about the regulations but his work is fine)

To all the others which jumped on this "train" to have opportunity
to complain against AIDA:
A you really so blind that you think AIDA would not give the "benefit of doubt" if it would not 100% clear that the OK sign was not given?

To them who stayed calm and constructiv:
Thanks a lot for keeping a "cool head"

The facts part:
After Stephane Mifsud's attempt I did not receive the videotape.
Of course I urged this tape by the judges.
First internal rumors started about a not given OK sign.
Further requests brought up that the tape was lost/stolen and Fred was not sure to remember about the OK sign and he told us
>on the video we can't tell he doesn't gives the ok signal<
More requests started and finally last Thursday evening I received a copy of the tape to be able to finish the work on this attempt.
On the tape you can see Stephane as he stands up after the exit, immediatly taking off his mask his arms hanging down on the side, nearly not moving.
The camera angle is that you can see everything.
Clearly no OK sign within the first 20 seconds.
After 21 seconds the camera zooms on his face.
The Board was also informed and agreed that this attempt cannot be valid.
Very sad situation but who thinks really we should take away the record fom another athlete which followed all rules?


Hope this explains everything but this will also be my only answer/explantion mail to this topic.
Especially I will not loose any more of my leasure time answering incompetent insults
because instead I prefer to continue my work on the AIDA ***Freediver education video. (* and ** are already finished and accessable for all AIDA Trainers soon)

Good night
Dieter Baumann

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Of course in the meantime we have some new facts.
The video of Mifsud is already posted (see the concerning announcement from Jorg Jansen)
and everybody can see the truth about the OK sign.
AIDA has a current set of rules which are to be followed by each athlete who wants to have his performance officially registered.
And to keep this rules for everybody the same, is the only way of serious and correct work, and this is the way of work as AIDA does.

Best regards
Dieter Baumann
 
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I agree that the video shows no such sign of an OK signal and that under the current AIDA rules this specifically concludes a failure of the performance. I think there were a handful of people who responded harshly under the assumption that the OK was given, due to misinformation. This is their mistake and hopefully, if they did not give any constructive feedback but instead only backlashed, they will have the decency to appologize.

More importantly, is that there was numerous posts through these discussions here and on AIDA Athletes list, that went far beyond the discussion of the OK being given or not. So I think it is unfair to not recognize the value of these discussions and the REAL points that were made and are still valid. Most of the lengthy posts attempt to address concerns with Stephane's record, that are still valid without the OK sign. The reality of whether he gave the OK sign, I would say, was the least important part of these discussions.

I think it is not appropriate to state that somebody, who released "news" that is incorrect or not complete, is automatically wrong for doing such. It appears that there have been decisions made in the past by representives of AIDA that have gone against general opinion/understanding without any release of information to explain or educate regarding the circumstances. People would then learn from this and lower their expectations of where information can/will be received from. AIDA is in a position to not present the public with ALL information, so they have to understand that they WILL be scrutinized and forced to be accountable, just in case they are not. So, gathering information from other resources and presenting it, is still valid, if not only to ensure information is exposed freely by AIDA and any tier organization. I do not think, with the few recent questionable situations, that it is wrong for people to be concerned and question the approach of a governing body!?

Under wrong assumptions and misinformation, discussion can still procede confidently, thoroughly, fairly, and constructively. That does not mean it will always be constructive for one entity (ie. AIDA) but it has the potential to be constructive for everybody. Off the top of my head I feel the following were all constructive concepts brought out through these discussions:

1. Can the current rule be overruled as a precedent and apply it to the record that brought this to the foreground in such a demanding way?

2. Is AIDA responsible to the public in exposing ALL workings and approaches to the community interests?

3. Can AIDA recognize the seemingly hypocritic nature of certain rules. Objective but subjective.

4. Should AIDA be able to enforce such rigid rules while the general process of ratifying a record is so loose and unstable.

5. What is the reality of how AIDA's current philosophy towards the rules, is the only means of achieving a truly recognized international sport.

6. What mechanism is in place in AIDA, to recognize and resolve inconsistencies in their own regulations/rules/approaches/organization?

7. Is AIDA willing to recognize that they are not professional politicians (is anybody?) therefore holding rigidly to certain political stances, while the community cries for something else would not be wise?

8. Would the community refuse to participate in non-AIDA events and if not, what stops another organization from replacing AIDA? This question would seem to imply AIDA should be on the edge of change at all times, ready for communal change, to discourage the need for such circumstances.

9. Is it possible for the current AIDA organization to support a lack of input and change to professional experience in the community? If there are x number of professional freedivers out there, how many actually get to influence the approach of AIDA?

Now, if that came out of this discussion, how can somebody focus on bashing one person (namely Eric Fattah) for introducing the questionable circumstances that preceded the push to explore these concepts? If he further did not add constructive concepts, and instead insisted on encouraging others to mindlessly pull down the walls, then of course I will be the first to say he is out of line. But to imply he is the enemy of AIDA and wants to bring it down, is a FALSE statement. Is it so hard to recognize that when a person really wants change they will try to find ways of encouraging that change? If we all took the same approach then we might all chose the method that fails. We can not beforehand know what approach will be the one to succeed. So his is "harsh" maybe. Others are diplomatic. Others are silent. But it is ignorance and lack of personal consideration, that would imply he is destructive. Are those, who would suggest this, SO CONFIDENT that the current approaches are pure and infallible? If not, then recognize that some people want to keep that in the community's mind, to ensure that as we all calm down from this incident or that, we don't just "let it go", forgotten on the ocean waves. It is too easy to call the "upstart" evil (reference: history; see historical military governments' first approach to quelling a rebellion). Please think beyond this.

Beyond that, this discussion had many in the community thinking, expressing, and wanting to make a difference. Please recognize this was all for a reason. Prepare for change.

Sincerely,

Tyler Zetterstrom
 
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I would like people to re-read my original post concerning the Mifsud issue. At no point did I say that an okay sign was given. I said that the judges on site MAY have seen an okay sign (since Fred said he didn't remember).

My original post contained none of my own information. Immediately after the initial decision by AIDA, Mifsud forwarded me his response, along with Dieter Baumann's official e-mail, and the cameraman's testimony. I also had received a message from Fred Buyle and Pierre Frolla on the issue. Given that I did not yet have permission to cut-and-paste those words verbatim, all I did was summarize them in a paragraph. There was no new information, or interpretation.

It was, and is, an issue which the whole community needed to be involved in, so I decided to post it.

I will continue to fight to make freediving a safe, fair and spectator friendly sport. I don't care which organization ends up doing the job. I continue to hope that AIDA will survive and do the job, but with the current democratic model, it seems highly unlikely. That doesn't stop me from fighting for the rights of innocent athletes. I am so used to being sworn and cursed at by AIDA board members that it doesn't affect me anymore.

As I have stated in previous posts, I still think that the greatest of all problems is an issue in the safety department. Safety protocols for training dives should be equivalent to safety protocols for official dives. Currently AIDA has elaborate safety protocols for official dives, but for training dives, the only protocol is that a lanyard must be used. The athlete is allowed to dive to 100m+ with no safety divers or counterbalance, or anything, just a lanyard. Currently the FREE rules require equivalent safety measures on training dives and official dives. This is just one example where I think there is room for improvement.

The other obvious areas are objectivity of judging the recovery, and the power of on-site judges to make a final decision.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 
Tyler,

Well said about Eric, it is unfortunate that through all of this there have been a number of incidents of people "playing the player rather than the ball" ie attacking people rather than attacking arguments. Generally I find that those that resort to attacking people generally do it because it is their style or because their argument is weak, neither should be acceptable to us.

I don't always agree with Eric but hope that anytime I disagree with him it is respectful and confined to the discussion being presented. I try to approach it this way out of respect to him as an individual and aware of the huge contribution he has made to the freediving community and to me directly though this forum. What disturbs me almost as much as the way the AIDA processes have failed Stephane is the way a number of people in official positions have responded by attacking people. One notable case is that which you raised on the attack on Eric. I think we should all make it clear that this type of behaviour is not acceptable to us. Eric, with or without our support I'm sure will always be Eric, but I think he deserves and has earned our support and I'm hopeful that the silent bystanders will join me in voicing their support for him at this time.

We need to remember also that along with records and official organisations the public’s judgement of OUR sport will be strongly influenced by their views on how the athletes and officials conduct themselves. In the interests of our sport I for one wouldn't want a lot of the behaviours that surfaced through this issue put to a "media test". We are better than this!
 
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In the interests of our sport I for one wouldn't want a lot of the behaviours that surfaced through this issue put to a "media test". We are better than this!

(ADR a very clear visioned post worthy of mention, but you got me laughing at the end, so this is all I have to comment on! :eek: )

HAHA :D I can see it now...

"In other news today... freediving... a sport so extreme, where humans descend to crushing depths and return on a single breath of air, and further upon returning, feel an overpowering compulsion to expel copious amounts of stagnant air through email forums!

One such athelete, going by the alias tylerz, burst out the following vehemence, taking the forums by literary storm...

"I down so deep, you can tell me nothing, I deeper damn you, change your harmony to disharmonic vibrations or else... sky fall down upon you head..."

We believe we understood his point up to there, but shortly after it all fell beyond our technical understanding of the sport... Well back to you Jill!
 
Dieter Baumann To Eric Fattah: As already several times in the past you spread again "news" without having any knowledge about it.

Spreading news without having knowledge about it....

This is one of the many problems with AIDA: the news-flow. It seems it needs people like fattah and the many others posting on db and other forums, bombing AIDA with mails etc. IN ORDER TO GET THE NEWS !
Before that, the only information I got from AIDA was the two words "NOT VALID" next to Mifsuds record on the Website. Thats all, thats it. Imagine: you have a democratic institution you got lots of members, your main goal is to make records valid worldwide. Then there is this amazing world record. You say: "Not Valid". Don't you think people want to know why ??

AIDA is not perfect ( i.e. one of the top guys there made an national "record" 4 years BEFORE AIDA was founded and started to set up rules, the "record" still exists.....)
But with worldwide and democratic discussions like happening here, we might have a chance to make it better.

my two cents

WISR

P.s. WR or not. Mifsuds dive was amazing !
 
more than 30 years have gone by since the first serious record freedives of Stefano Makula, Enzo Maiorca, Jacques Mayol... but things haven't changed much when it comes to record-business: rivalry and enviousness are in the air. accusations are beeing made in public and top level athletes and coaches are turning away from an organization they once helped to develop.

the 'sad news' title of this thread led into a documentation about 'sad circumstances of personal distrust'...
todays freediving community has acquit itself from the macho rivalry of the early days. why can't the exponents in the record and competition business do the same? why is it so hard?

a deep-drawn sigh and deep regards to the community
pat
 
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