Surface blackouts and the freediver recovery vest

[HooSlayer]

< yea, hoping someone chimes in. I could see it taking longer than 15 sec to experience a surface black out then sink. Not like anything can be done about it if there is no buddy there to save you.

spent an hour or so reading the manual and watching all the videos last night. Hoping to get this vest in the water this weekend and get comfortable using it.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I think you'll find it very comfortable. I forget I have it on. In fact on one of my first trips using it we dove a spot and then moved to another one. After the guy on the bow dropped the anchor I came out of the cabin and said "where's my FRV?" And my buddy said "you're wearing it."

A suggestion that has nothing to do with life saving but may save you a little money- before you screw in a CO2 cylinder, make sure the device is cocked so that the firing pin is retracted. Otherwise you'll get a big surprise when it inflates in your hands. I doubt that I'm the only one who learned this the hard way.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

And one other tip- its not easy to get all the gas out after an inflation. I put it in a bucket of water and try to let it out through the oral inflation tube. You can pull the cord to open the pressure relief valve, but if it's under water you'll be letting water into the bladder. So I just hold the oral inflation tube out of the water and try to work all the bubbles around to it. If you suck the last bit out of the tube, it doesn't hurt you but it stings inhaling that CO2.

 

[Mr. X]

Did you see this ad on Deeperblue.com? https://www.provitatec.com/

 

[Diving Gecko]

Did you see this ad on Deeperblue.com? https://www.provitatec.com/

Good to have another option if Terry's are no longer available and no patents of his are being violated.
The Swiss offering looks a tad less streamlined but it's hard to tell from pics.

 

[cdavis]

Thanks MrX, I was looking for that.

They need to advertise more. I glimpsed the ad just as I was switching screens, then could not find it again.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Thanks MrX, I was looking for that.

They need to advertise more. I glimpsed the ad just as I was switching screens, then could not find it again.

I agree - and I think they need to get some vests out as testers to the community. I am sure they are clever Swiss engineers but Terry is a name in the sport and was already a super respected guy when he started making the FRVs. The Swiss don't have that going for them, so they need other people in the sport vouching for them and the vest to get started. I think this and other FRV threads have shown that spearos are a conservative bunch when it comes to this type of gear. So, I really think they need to get some respected spearos into this vest asap.

That said, seems on their Facebook like they only launched the product a month ago (after some years of development).

I have the FRV and has a ton of admiration for Terry's work, so I hope the Swiss solution is different enough that there is no conflict because I think we can all agree that we need a product like this to be available. I was always hoping that if Terry stopped selling it to our segment that a big dive gear company would take it over but the company lawyers are probably scared of the "life saving" part of the product.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I'm glad to see this new version out there and I hope it can be a success, but I wouldn't bet on it. With all the name recognition Terry Maas has, he couldn't make a profit. A friend recently told me that Terry sold only something over 600 vests of all the versions over all those years. Divers who are perfectly willing to pay over $1000 for a speargun aren't willing to pay $950 for a vest. I believe that a lot of divers just don't think its "cool" to wear a thing like that. I recommended it to all my friends and on every forum I could. A lot of my friends said something like "yeah, I really should get one" but then never did. A couple of them have said that they are sorry that they missed their chance now that Terry is out of business, but its safe to say that.

Terry's announcement said that he would no longer be selling them "to the public." Reading between the lines, I think that may mean that he is still selling the military version to Special Ops forces. A couple of years ago he told me that those sales were the majority of the business. I know he invested a fortune in development of the vest, and I hope he will be able to break even.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Yeah, the military connection is real. His website says something about now working with two big companies for the military version and a surfers version.

For the Swiss vest, we will see. In this age of the internet and “influencers” (I dislike most of that industry...) it might work for the new vest. Good, genuinely skilled influencers aren’t shills like most of them these days and I can think of 3-5 spearos with very big followings on their YouTube channels.

Let’s see. In the end, you may, sadly, be right.

Oh, the 600 number is probably right. My order number was somewhere in the 500s and that was just two years ago or so.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mr. X]

I'd be happy to wear such a device, provided it isn't bulky. Price and availability will be critical for widespread adoption.

For spearos, it might make sense to include pockets for weights, so it can replace the weightvest.

 

[Philip-sens07]

You are quite right. We launched the sens07vest this year, after several years of development.
Terry is an icon in the scene and he has our full admiration for what he has done and achieved, including FRV.
Honestly, we don’t have his large experience, but we share the same passion to make diving more secure.
Our approach is to offer a powerful rescue device which can be programmed by a smartphone.

The purpose of the sens07vest and the FRV are similar, but the construction is quite different.
Our aim was to reduce the complexity (and thus the risk of errors and incorrect operation) as far as possible..
Just press the self-check button and put it on. No installation or battery change needed.

We believe that simple operation and a lower price is an important factor, but we are aware that the price is still too high for most divers… We hope to be able to improve that point in some years…

@Diving Gecko: We are always interested to get in contact with divers ready to spread the message. Can you send me the link of the mentioned 3-5 spearos? I would very much appreciate that. It's quite hard to find good spearos in the Swiss mountain lakes...
@Mr. X: sens07vest isn't bulky ;-) You want to try ?

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I'd be happy to wear such a device, provided it isn't bulky. Price and availability will be critical for widespread adoption.

If you would be wiling to wear one, I’m curious why you didn’t buy the FRV.
was it too expensive, too bulky, or what? I owned every version since the first one that used a compressed air bottle. They got less bulky and cheaper with every version. With my restricted range of motion in my shoulders it’s a bit of a PIA to put it on, but I have trouble putting on a suit jacket too. Once it’s on I leave it on all day, even moving between spots in the boat, and I don’t even notice that I have it on.

 

[Diving Gecko]

You are quite right. We launched the sens07vest this year, after several years of development.
Terry is an icon in the scene and he has our full admiration for what he has done and achieved, including FRV.
Honestly, we don’t have his large experience, but we share the same passion to make diving more secure.
Our approach is to offer a powerful rescue device which can be programmed by a smartphone.

The purpose of the sens07vest and the FRV are similar, but the construction is quite different.
Our aim was to reduce the complexity (and thus the risk of errors and incorrect operation) as far as possible..
Just press the self-check button and put it on. No installation or battery change needed.

We believe that simple operation and a lower price is an important factor, but we are aware that the price is still too high for most divers… We hope to be able to improve that point in some years…

@Diving Gecko: We are always interested to get in contact with divers ready to spread the message. Can you send me the link of the mentioned 3-5 spearos? I would very much appreciate that. It's quite hard to find good spearos in the Swiss mountain lakes...
@Mr. X: sens07vest isn't bulky ;-) You want to try ?

Off the top of my head for right now from YouTube; Daniel Mann, Ryan Myers, aquatic rehab, the Greek guy... “Spearfishing Life”(?)

Also, I messaged you on Facebook about a far Asia connection;-)


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[Mr. X]

@Bill McIntyre Yes cost, bulk, complexity and availability. I could probably order one from the USA but then the high initial costs shoot up as shipping, 20% VAT, possibly import tax and cost of tax collection are added. Plus spares, repairs, etc.

@Philip-sens07 Thanks for the offer How much are they? Are they available now?

In addition to the above youtubers (yes, definitely Daniel Man, my fav youtuber, in England/Australia/globe trotter & Ryan Myers in Hawaii/Florida USA), I would also suggest joepk in Devon, England. How about Rob Allen in Africa too?

 

[Bill McIntyre]

@Philip-sensoo7

I read through your ad and have one question about this statement

"A manual version of the sens07vest permits safety divers to bring a free diver quickly to the surface in the event of an emergency."

That implies that only a special version of the vest can be inflated manually. Does that mean that the standard version cannot?

I ask because I've always considered that the ability to inflate the FRV manually was important, especially as I age. At 81 my hamstrings and calves just seem to cramp more often. If I get a bad hamstring cramp at depth, I don't want to wait for a time limit to activate the vest. I want to be able to inflate in manually. If I have cut a big fish out of the kelp and am struggling to get it to the surface, I might want to use the vest to help.

Please clarify.

I like the "always on" feature. Recently I dove without remembering to turn my FRV on. And programming from my iPhone also sounds attractive. Does the CO2 cartridge remain in the vest? Removing it from my FRV and rinsing the activator is always a chore but it would corrode if left in. How does this work? How big is the cartridge? How much lift does it provide at various depths?

Are these vests available for purchase now? What is the price? I have a couple of friends who claim to be sorry that they missed the FRV, and they might be interested.

 

[Philip-sens07]

Hy Bill

Thank you guys for all the interesting information. Very much appreciated !!!!
I will follow up on all these contacts in the next days...


The sens07vest has always a manual handle to trigger inflation by pulling the handle.
There is a diving organisation interested to have a "manual version" only in order to support the security divers on competitions. This means without any electronic, just the red handle. Sorry, I should be more clear on the web page. Will correct that later.
The manual version is about half of the price of the automatic one. It is not on the store yet, but we will make the manual version available in some weeks.

The CO2 cylinder remains in the vest. However, you should rinse the cylinders after dive to avoid corrosion, but they don't need to be de-installed for cleaning.

Concerning different CO2 cylinders and uplift. We provide 60gr and 95gr cylinders.
Please check: https://www.provitatec.com/specifications
There you find a graphic showing how much uplift you get in different depths for the two cylinders.
There is also a video showing the uplift starting from 40 meter depth until surfacing.

PS: You don't need to purchase the CO2 cylinder from us, you can also purchase them in the US (LeLand Gas for example).
The vest is available for about 790$ (TAX not included . Delivery time about 2 weeks).

Thanks for the feedback

Philip

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Thanks for your reply. I’ve forwarded all this to a friend and he’s interested.

One more question. Can you disable the function that requires you to push a button to notify the vest that you are awake and in control after surfacing?
I know I should use that function but I also know that when I reached the surface after shooting a big fish and was trying to keep it from tying up in the kelp, I would forget to push that button and I’d end up with an inflated vest. Terry Mass told me that he doesn’t even use it.

 

[dave.heinrich3]

As mentioned above, if you can get some backing or endorsement from prominent spearfishermen/freedivers I would likely place an order. Keep us posted!

 

[Philip-sens07]

Yes, you can disable that feature.

 

[Philip-sens07]

We are working on some good endorsement