Swimming ability of freedivers

[sickbugs]

before replying to this thread, i went down to the bay and swam a few laps (i figure the bay is about 130 meters long, from the jetty to the south cliff) and i realised that my freestyle isnt nearly as good as it once was, id never consider myself competition material (not fast enough) but i used to be able to swim easily for 25-30 mins, freestyle, now, after about 10 mins, my arms and shoulders feel very uncomfortable. because i do a lot of dynamic no-fin, my breaststroke is still as good as allways, i did about 10 laps of that until i got bored, then came home.

i guess the freediving is a bit to blame for this, also i havnt surfed much lately, so im not really using my shoulders in the water.. will have to fix this problem

 

[naiad]

I can do a longer dynamic than I can comfortably freestyle I'd say.

Me too.

Here is a cool joke: In Canada, at a certain level of swimming instruction you must tread water for 5 minutes with CHIN ABOVE THE WATER. When taking this test, just do this:
- Breathe up on the edge of the pool
- Pack to the max
- Jump in the water
- Hold the breath for 5 minutes

Because of the huge volume from packing, your chin stays above the surface of the water even without doing anything! You pass the test without knowing how to tread water!!

That's a lot of packing! rofl
I must try that, I am very buoyant anyway. That is one of the reasons why my swimming ability is not much of a problem. It takes only minimal effort for me to keep my face out of the water.

Now then, maybe I should give freestyle another try...I get tired very fast in that too, but I think I've identified the problem. My kicks are not relaxed enough, way too much effort there

Same with me. I have tried kicking in a more relaxed way, but then my legs sink.

 

[Sergiu]

I see the triathon guys at the local pool going on and on for one hour, in freestyle "mode" and I go "damn, i suck, i get tired after 200m". Then i realised it the pace that counts a lot, endurance pace it's needed for long distances and a style that is friendlier so i started doing breaststroke for 10min or 400m at the time...I tried once to go for 30min or 1km whichever comes first and stopped mid way - it's a total bore!

Now i try to trick myself to do some endurance swimming with different exercises the best is the "pyramid" in which i do 50s (meters) breathing every 7,9,11 and 13 strokes plus a full lenght of the pull on breath hold. Then back, to 11, 9, 7 and ... it works, keeps me busy . That's with freestyle but i started receintly with breaststroke as well and it works at least for the moment.

serge

 

[Bill McIntyre]

If "swimming" means freestyle, I've never been any good at it, but I don't think that has much to do with freediving, and I don't agree with those who said that a diver should be good at it as a basic survival skill. If you were left by the boat 10 miles offshore, do you really think that freestyle is what you should be doing with your energy?

I think I could stay afloat all day, but I wouldn't be doing the freestyle.

When I went though U.S. Navy Scuba School in the early 1960s, we had class races at distances of 500, 1000, and 1500 yards in a side loch of Pearl Harbor with no fins, and then later with fins. Since this was military training and we wouldn't want to be splashing around alerting the enemy to our presence, we were only allowed to use the breast stroke and side or back stroke with underwater recovery during the swims without fins. I won every won of them, but they were not at all concerned with ability to swim freestyle. If you were to make me swim freestyle, everyone would run off and leave me.

 

[jimqpublic]

Bill-

True- If you're 10 miles offshore having a good wetsuit and a signal mirror (shiny knife?) are far more important. But what about if you're shore diving on a reef 1 mile offshore. A change in tide sets up a strong current and afternoon wind creates chop that you can barely make headway against. Then you lose your fins.

In this case being a strong swimmer in choppy water would be a good idea. I have a buddy who had just this scenario (except he didn't lose his fins) off a small South Pacific island made it back only because he's a strong swimmer. What had taken him an hour to swim out took over three hours back, and it was well after dark when he got there. Since water there was warm he wasn't wearing a wetsuit and only had 5 pounds on a weight belt, which he ditched. He was exhausted, cold, and cramping when he finally hit the shore. Dumb decisions of course (dive solo, don't tell anyone, don't check tides & currents, start back with only two hours daylight...)


Since most of my diving will be shore dives I'll get plenty of practice surface swimming. Since there are lots of boats out there I'm going to put a dive flag on a Boogie Board which will add to the safety factor if I drift too far.

 

[Morg]

I see the triathon guys at the local pool going on and on for one hour, in freestyle "mode" and I go "damn, i suck, i get tired after 200m". Then i realised it the pace that counts a lot, endurance pace it's needed for long distances and a style that is friendlier so i started doing breaststroke for 10min or 400m at the time...I tried once to go for 30min or 1km whichever comes first and stopped mid way - it's a total bore!

Now i try to trick myself to do some endurance swimming with different exercises the best is the "pyramid" in which i do 50s (meters) breathing every 7,9,11 and 13 strokes plus a full lenght of the pull on breath hold. Then back, to 11, 9, 7 and ... it works, keeps me busy . That's with freestyle but i started receintly with breaststroke as well and it works at least for the moment.

serge

I found the same results. I stumbled upon a training method somewhere on the net and found a pretty good strenght training method that I worked a few times.

It went something like this.

200 Meters - Warm Up
25 Meters - %90 - %100 Effort
Rest 15 Seconds
25 Meters - %90 - %100 Effort
Rest 15 Seconds

It went like that for about 6 or 8 reps. It was somewhat difficult. My arms were sore at the end which is good .

I also agree with many people here swimming laps in a pool for 30-60 minutes is very boring . I would much rather set off in the open water and swim around a small island or something rofl. (I really plan on doing this in 4-5 weeks )

 

[laminar]

If any of you want to improve your swimming, the best book for that is Total Immersion by Terry Laughlin. I wrote a review of it on Deeperblue many moons ago. Do a search for it and I'm sure you'll find a thread with comments.

Pete

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Jim,

Your buddy made it back "because he is a strong swimmer" but you said he didn't lose his fins. Did he do the crawl while using his fins? Would he have made it if he had lost his fins and been swimming freestyle? I'm guessing that the answer is "no" to both questions.

I'm a pretty strong swimmer with fins too- I didn't lose the race at any of those distances when using fins. Of course at 67 my legs are not as strong as they were then, in spite of the cycling, running, and weight work with which I try to stave off the inevitable, but I think I'm still above average, and I think that is far more important to a freediver than freestyle ability.

And while I guess anything is possible, how likely is it that a diver will lose his fins and be facing a long swim? Going through the surf is the most likely way to lose fins, and then a long swim is not the problem.

Its true that you will be getting plenty of practice surface swimming on your shore dives, but it will be practice waving fins. I doubt you will be doing any freestyle while carrying a speargun.

I can't recall knowing of a single instance in which any of my diving friends have done any freestyle, but I can sure recall examples of having to swim strongly with fins. I recall a time when a sudden strong wind came down a canyon at Catalina and my anchor dragged, letting my boat head off toward the mainland. It may not have been the wise thing to do, but I decided to try to chase it down. I swam just as hard as I could with those fins without cramping, and finally caught the boat about a mile and a half off the island. I didn't do any freestyle, and I have serious doubts that anyone but an Olympic caliber swimmer would have caught that boat swimming freestyle in that choppy water.

I guess it would be nice to be a great freestyle swimmer, but I think it will be much more useful for a diver to work on being a strong fin swimmer.

 

[Oldsarge]

I'm with SThompson. If I exhale, I can stand on the bottom of the pool. With a lungfull, I float with only the top of my balding head above water. Shoot, when wearing diveskins, I ride lower in the water than gonetobaja does with 10lbs of lead! My parents were desperate for me to learn to swim and I finally sort of did, though there were enough bad moments in swimming class to make me phobic around water for years afterwards. Overcoming that phobia was one reason that I took up this crazy pasttime and even today, my wife would have a panic attack if she thought I was out there in the ocean without my wetsuit/pfd. I'd never have made the old San Diego Bottom Scratchers when all they had was goggles, trunks, fins and handspears. Thank Heaven for neoprene!

 

[Cliff Etzel]

I personally like the idea of both fin swimming and standard swimming - especially here in the PacNW where the water can be quite chilly the majority of the year. I think it provides a total body workout. I personally do find swimming somewhat boring per se', but it is a chance to calm my mind down, get some water time in, and in many instances, it provides mental space for problem solving and creative solutions. Adcd to thatr yoga and it does tend to be a mental vacation so to speak.

I would hate to swim lap after lap for 1000 meters, hence I break up the pool time with dynamic apnea with fins (typically 600-800yrds) and cardio breast stroke without fins (Typically 400 yrds). As anyone with precious little time, I prefer to keep a level of fitness that isn't competition level, but provides for me what I want in my fitness level and for freediving as a whole.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Maybe I should clarify. I don't think anyone should be out there diving without being totally comfortable and confident in the water. I just don't think you need to be a good freestyle swimmer.

 

[knoodelhed]

Maybe I should clarify. I don't think anyone should be out there diving without being totally comfortable and confident in the water. I just don't think you need to be a good freestyle swimmer.

Yeah, what he said. I'm a "round" person who doesn't swim as nicely or as quickly as a "flat" one, but I swim well enough to pass any common general safety standard (e.g., the swimming merit badge). And even better in salt water or a wetsuit.

 

[naiad]

My parents were desperate for me to learn to swim and I finally sort of did, though there were enough bad moments in swimming class to make me phobic around water for years afterwards.

Ah, swimming lessons... The memories... rofl

When I was about 6 I had a few swimming lessons. Many methods were tried without success. I held onto kickboards, but my face just wouldn't stay out of the water. Then there was the fishing rod thing....

Then I discovered that if I fill my lungs with water, I lose any buoyancy that I might have had, so this isn't a good idea, no matter how desperate the situation. (This took me a while to work out, at the time I was quite ready to repeat the experience.)

More about my swimming lesson saga...
[ame="http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?p=590165#post590165"]Scuba vs Freedive breathing patterns. can i do both?[/ame]

 

[JPPLAY]

I think all freedivers and spearos should be competent swimmers. That means being able to swim freestyle not just breastroke and have some endurance. You will gain more confidence in yourself when in the water. Anything can happen when you are diving so you should prepare yourself the best you can. You could be on your dive line clipped to it and a boat catches it and drags you for several kms. You could be diving a new area when the current pulls you out to sea. Get caught in a rip current and lose your fins. Having to breastroke in a fast rip current when you could freestyle and get out sooner or not at all doesn't make sense to me.
You don't need to be a competitive swimmer to freedive or spearfish but you should be a good swimmer never average or below average. Remember you are investing in your own safety.

 

[Cliff Etzel]

Maybe I should clarify. I don't think anyone should be out there diving without being totally comfortable and confident in the water. I just don't think you need to be a good freestyle swimmer.

I agree completely on that Bill - I believe one should be able to either side stroke and/or breast stroke with confidence. Those two strokes offer the best efficiency in my opinion.

Unfortunately, my right shoulder cuff has been giving me problems lately and I cant do a crawl stroke without a fair amount of pain - but the breast and side strokes allow me to be efficient in the water and still maintain my cardio fitness. A crawl stroke in my opinion is for competitive swimming - it isn't efficient in terms of energy over a longer period of time. It also does not allow you to see where you are going unless you stop. An efficient breast or side stroke can give a swimmer needed momentary rest intervals while continuing forward as needed. I am more efficient with a breast stroke than crawl - but then again, I have a fairly stocky physique - one that isn't conducive to the crawl stroke...

 

[Jon]

For all those people who have commented on how 'boring" swimming laps is, I have a suggestion- an underwater MP3 player!

I, try, to get in an hour a day, 5 days a week, of swimming in the local pool. I used to run and then swim a quick 30 minutes, but since I bought one of these things I can easily get through a 90 minute workout without boredom. I have recently switched to a 60 minute workout so I still have time to get my kids in swimming with me for the last 30.

If you look online you can find close-out pricing on them. I bought my housing for $50 and it has been worth every penny. :inlove

I used to swim without fins, but the YMCA lets me use whatever fins I want, including my monofins, so I end up swimming all of my workouts in some type of fin or another. I can swim without them, but with them is just so much more FUN- and we all know that the more enjoyment you get out of exercise the more often you will do it.

Another thing that makes a BIG difference, for me at least, is having a bottle of gatorade on the poolside to sip off of every other song- which is how I base my workouts. I swim oneway for one song and switch drills for the next- with a momentary break everyother song for a slug from my water bottle. Doing this helps me stay hydrated and by having something inside my bottle, besides water, keeps me from getting super hungry while I swim.

One thing that I do find "Freestyle" swimming helpful for is free Immersion. You use similar muscle groups and you can do breath hold freestyle in any pool- no matter if they let you use fins or not.

BTW: I screwed up my shoulder this past winter skiing, and then playing underwater hockey the next night without giving it any time to rest. It kept me away from freestyle for a couple of weeks, but i've built it back up since then. Breast stroke is still so painfull i can't do more than a lap or two that way- as compared to a couple of miles in freestyle. I guess I should actually see a doctor one of these days. :crutch

I have worked out with the local Master's swim team in the past. I can swim the distance without any trouble, but I certainly am NOT the fastest guy there. By swimming with them I learned about a lot of the techniques covered in the Total Immersion swim program- which is an excellent book and also has some great videos that go along with it. One of the key things they did was help me with my hand entry into the water- which has since saved a lot of wear and tear on my shoulder.

Jon

 

[trux]

Swimming crawl is actually much less tiring than breast stroke, when you learn it properly. When I have to do longer distances in water, I prefer crawl over breast stroke. And if I am not mistaken, marathon, triathlon, iron-man and Channel swimmers mostly swim crawl too. They would not do it, if it was more exhausting.

Swimming crawl is purely about the technique, not at all about strength, endurance or physical fitness. People who cannot swim crawl or do it just poorly, have problems because they did not learn the technique. And mostly it is the breathing that makes them troubles - they did not learn to keep the head in a streamline position and turning it just slightly in the right moment to take a breath. Once you learn the breathing, even if your overall crawl swimming technique is still miserable, you will enjoy it much more and be able to swim miles with it easier than with breast stroke.

 

[fcallagy]

I agree with Trux, I used to have ok front crawl technique and did the 1500 m swim for part of a triathlon but after that I decided to do go the whol hog and do all in a sprint triathlon. I used to swim breathing on one side and then started to try on both I slowed down at first but am a lot better now. i usually try to swim 1500m plus 3 times a week no fins allowed in pool. its nearly all front crawl maybe 250m of breast stroke to warm down with some dolphin kicks thrown in.
I reckon I would be a good swimmer in comparison to most in the pool but an average to slow amongst serious swimmers. Umberto in his books talks a lot about aquacity feeling at home in water and I think swimming helps it but so does any activity in water. I think most freedivers would be able to look after themselves even if they lost a fin or fins due to this.
Jon like the sound of the mp3 player would be good but if the pool is busy enough I don,t get bored as try to catch up on pepole in front and then see how long before I can catch and pass them again. It definatly helps if you have some one to train with though.

 

[JPPLAY]

It also does not allow you to see where you are going unless you stop. QUOTE]

You could use heads up crawl if you need to see a point above water.

 

[land shark]

I Freestyle 3 to 7 mi per week and yes it helps. I agree with Umberto's aquicity practice. Even playing UW hockey with Jon's group has improved my abilities. The More you swim the better. Hell I feel like going out and blowing some bubbles.