• Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:

    • Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
    • Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
    • Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
    • Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
    • All this and much more...

    You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

Tandem Kayak : info please

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

Spinal Tap

New Member
Jul 5, 2004
107
11
0
If it's between the scupper pro and the cobra expedition, then I vote for the scupper pro. Teh expedition is faster (probably much faster) but it's also probably much more unstable. While I can understand your desire for speed, you will also have to consider capacity and deck layout for all your gear. The Scupper pro has a big hatch up front for pretty much everything including your gun. More important that what it can carry inside is the fact that you'll have to put some gear on when you finally reach your dive site. Many divers will only wear the wetsuit bottom when paddling out because the wetsuit top will be too much of a constraint to paddling. You won't have your weightbelt on either (probably about 9kg based on your weight). Putting on a wetsuit top on a very narrow kayak possibly in seas with a little swell could be disastrous. Try it on a log in a parking lot or something, you'll ge the idea quickly.

Whatever paddle you get, make sure it's long enough for your height. You'll sit higher than a shorter person and would need a longer paddle. The kayak shops should have a guideline.

Another thing to consider is a rescue pack of locator smoke, flares, whistle for paddling in your waters. Actually it's a good idea for any waters.

good luck
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. X

portinfer

Aquatic shopper...
Jul 3, 2003
1,327
407
173
Cheers for the info - I use between 12pounds(5.4kg ) to 16pounds(7kg ) with my 5mm. Getting a 3mm so will use even less....

Can you fit a 100cm gun inside ?
It is a 100cm Totemsub Pelagos - think the shaft is 140cm.

Does anyone take a float/bouy out with them aswell ?
Or do you set a flag on the kayak ?

I was thinking that diving an area with a bouy while staying relatively near the kayak might be better than trying to use the kayak as a bouy attached to you?

Do you need to let the marine authorities know that you will be diving form a kayak so they dont 'rescue' you when Joe Public reports a drifting kayak ?!

Cheers
Ed
 

Spinal Tap

New Member
Jul 5, 2004
107
11
0
damnit all to hell. I wrote a lengthy reply and it's all lost.

So you'll only get the abridged version...

1. 100cm should be no problem. You may have to take the shaft out. I have friends who put Alexander bluewater guns in their scupper pros.

2. I use both. The bouy/float is good for fighting fish and some visibility by boaters.
Kayak flag helps you locate your kayak because you and the kayak are very low in the water. Any swell at all and you could have trouble finding it...waiting for the top of the swell and you can be looking in the wrong direction.

3. Try both and see what works for you. If your diving dictates covering a lot of water, then having the kayak tethered to your gun isn't a bad idea, but if your hunting is concentrated in one area, then anchoring the yak and staying close and untethered might work better.

4. Not in CA but not a bad idea to file your travel/dive plans with them for your first few times. Especially if you're out by yourself and/or if the area is remote or little travelled.
 

Pablo

Breather... so far!
Mar 9, 2004
347
69
0
Spinal Tap said:
While I can understand your desire for speed, you will also have to consider capacity and deck layout for all your gear. The Scupper pro has a big hatch up front for pretty much everything including your gun. More important that what it can carry inside is the fact that you'll have to put some gear on when you finally reach your dive site. Many divers will only wear the wetsuit bottom when paddling out because the wetsuit top will be too much of a constraint to paddling. You won't have your weightbelt on either (probably about 9kg based on your weight). Putting on a wetsuit top on a very narrow kayak possibly in seas with a little swell could be disastrous.

Is what I do (in pretty ruff weather sometimes) and I'm find: feet over the side and boy under the knees if needed!

I prefer to keep the gear on the deck: gun, float line, float on the front, neoprene fins on the back. The fish goes inside only if the weather is good. My point is that I don't like to open the hatches out at sea... one bad wave or a lost hatch and you are in trouble... deep trouble!!!

Hatches on the explorer are pretty big (but not enough to get my 130... 100 is OK), and you have two of them (plus a day hatch). But the scupper is probably cheaper boat that will do 95% of what you want.

The explorer is a long way more stable than people expect looking at the width... and this is because is not a conventional SOT. In fact you are sitting under the water line, and relay on the ventury system to empty the cockpit. The scupper holes are blocked with some thin SS plates, and is up to you to drill them if you want, but the valve does a good job! this is why unlike other SOT you get secondary stability and end up to be a boat relatively easy to esquimo-roll (using the knee straps). Because is so low on the water the boat is less sensible to the wind than any other sea kayak I've try... and a wet drive!!!
Somehow it's an extreme boat that you can not buy with out try it, or be confident on your skills.

Flag and boy are needed... a good rig for blue water is gun- float line (to the spear not the gun)-float-bungie (on a velcro bag)-kayak.

For the paddle, one of those asymmetric bright colored fiberglass blades on a straight shaft will do the trick if is light enough. Small blade is good, unless you are really big and have plenty of good muscle. I like high angled blades when facing strong winds, and they are good for everything else (you can always get a shaft lock to adjust your paddle on the go). But my real love are the wing paddles: once you try properly one of those carbon marvels there is no way back... and no one ahead of you rofl! more efficient, develop your rib cage and force you to use the correct technique.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. X

Spinal Tap

New Member
Jul 5, 2004
107
11
0
I thought Portinfer was deciding between the Scupper Pro and the Cobra Expedition.

The Expedition is 18' long and 23" at it's widest.
The Explorer is 11' long and 31" wide.

Two very different kayaks. Maybe Portinfer meant to say explorer? Even so, if he intends to paddle between 4-12 miles, the longer scupper pro would still be a better choice (if nothing else but for the distances he intends to travel).

Still, test paddle if possible.
 

Pablo

Breather... so far!
Mar 9, 2004
347
69
0
Upsssss! yes, Expedition... I always says explorer :duh

The scupper pro is 1m shorter than the expedition... I've dive in company of those, and I normally need to wait for them. If I we switch boats you can see a broad smile on the other face while they paddle effortlessly away. Still, I always recommend the scupper or the tourer as a general diving boat... expedition only if you know is the boat you want.

I keep an explorer it when I sold the kayaks (4 tandems) from my adventure company back in Mallorca, and I try to use it for spearing... in fine weather and close range (1-2 miles) was just OK, but not good either.
 

Jon

Dairyland diver
Supporter
Apr 7, 2001
4,080
473
188
55
Diving fresh water, Great lakes and inland lakes, I use the boat with a flag on it for most of my diving. You will find that a normal "inner tube" float attachment will work out just fine for your boat- the strap goes around the gunnel and through the scupper hole on the O.K. boats.

If I am diving off a tandem I will bring along another float that I swim with while leaving the boat anchored at a central location.

I have a shorter, high angled, paddle made by Werner. It's not carbon fiber, but is fiberglass and cost my aroud $250 when I bought it. For my Scrambler I have a little bit longer aluminum paddle, with asymetrical blades, that was fairly light and ran around $100 12 years ago. It is lighter than many other "cheap" paddles, but still can take some abuse. :blackeye

Strapping things down is very important. I have my mesh bag strapped onto the front deck of my scrambler so that if I roll it nothing can come out. When I put my gear on I have a bunch of 1 meter lines with snap clips on the end so I can tie everything off- in case a wave hits while I am gearing up. If something can get lost it will.

Jon
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. X

dave

Dicentrarchus labrax
Jan 13, 2003
497
187
133
Perception Freedom is 401cmx 78cm.(from www.perception.co.uk)
I would agree with not opening the hatches whilst at sea, in fact I have not even cut the hatches out on mine, everthing is strapped down on the deck.
I would suggest getting a bright colour. It makes it far easier to spot from a distance
cheers
dave
www.spearo.co.uk
 

EEZerik

New Member
Aug 1, 2004
46
7
0
37
Hey Nate/Spinal Tap, you seem to be very experienced with kayaks!!! I do have a couple questions for you as I don't know anything about kayaks:

(and also anyone else)
Have you tried a Cobra Tourer? If so, how do you like it, what is a good price on a used one with rudder in good condition? Comes with rudder, seat, two large hatches, a tank well, a huge (8 inch) nut hatch, comes with a Cobra power flex paddle, a paddle leash, a scottys rod holder for trolling and a PVC rod storage system

I don't know how many of these things are standard so I wouldn't know what ballpark figure is...

Thanks

Erik Sun
 

Spinal Tap

New Member
Jul 5, 2004
107
11
0
EEZerik said:
Hey Nate/Spinal Tap, you seem to be very experienced with kayaks!!! I do have a couple questions for you as I don't know anything about kayaks:

(and also anyone else)
Have you tried a Cobra Tourer? If so, how do you like it, what is a good price on a used one with rudder in good condition? Comes with rudder, seat, two large hatches, a tank well, a huge (8 inch) nut hatch, comes with a Cobra power flex paddle, a paddle leash, a scottys rod holder for trolling and a PVC rod storage system

I don't know how many of these things are standard so I wouldn't know what ballpark figure is...

Thanks

Erik Sun

Erik,

I don't have much experience with Cobra kayaks mainly because when I started diving off a kayak, I'd never even heard of Cobra kayaks. So I stuck with what was available back then: Ocean Kayaks and Neckys. I had a chance to paddle some Cobras (Fish N Dive, Explorer, Navigator) a few years ago and they were very stable but also very slow and non-responsive (like a barge). But my experience has been with faster kayaks so it's all perspective. They are well made kayaks that are really well suited for shorter distances (again relative).

I've not heard of anything bad about the Tourer and it has about the same dimensions as a Scupper pro so I would assume it's performance wouldn't be too different. It doesn't sound like the boat you described is coming with a lot of extras because you can't really use the PVC rod holders. I suspect it's actually a bunch of PVC pipes cut to length and either screwed onto a milk crate or tied with zip ties. I could be wrong and he has PVC rod holders that sink into the kayak. Either way, if you plan to use it as a dive platform, you won't be taking those out with you.

My experience with used kayak prices is that they go for about half that of new (retail), BUT the used kayak will at least include paddle and seat. Of course, this depends on the definition of "good" condition.

The rudder is like AC in a car. You don't need it but it's nice to have when there's a cross wind or following seas.
 
Last edited:

Spinal Tap

New Member
Jul 5, 2004
107
11
0
Erik,

That depends on how you intend to use it...distance from launch, water/weather conditions, but considering we're in pretty much the same location here in SoCal all you would be concerned with is distance. The scupper pro is used by many of the competitive spearfisherman at tournaments for good reason: good deck layout/space, good speed, a proven kayak. Ocean Kayak has the prowler out that's suppose to be an improvement but I can't see how it would be MUCH better.

If you're not going very far for each dive then you might want to look at the Cobra kayaks. A couple divers really like the Fish N Dive.

I've heard that Malibu Kayaks are well made and easy to use as well. I think IB Boyd has one.

I would recommend getting a used one. There are some great deals out there. You'd basically need a kayak, seat, and paddle and that's about it.

Whatever you get, test paddle it first. After you buy it, practice getting on and off in calm water, then play/surf in the rougher stuff. Then add pieces of gear and practice some more. This winter is the perfect time to do it. You can't dive, but you can get ready for rough water entries and exits. I'm a stickler for safety so I recommend all the practicing. The surfing is actually pretty fun.
 

EEZerik

New Member
Aug 1, 2004
46
7
0
37
Thanks for the info again!! I'm writing this essay so i'm stuck to my computer forever today!!!
Will be using in competition but also for just local, hopefully with a BIG BIG WSB holding my gun on top of my yak :thankyou I heard the tourer is rather fast and more stable than the scupper, and stability is something I like, though I've never tried out the tourer, only read reviews on it!


How do you bring it to the water? Hand carry or other (when by yourself) (e.g. rollers?)
Also, what kind of kayak rack do you like? (inexpensive preferably!!)

Last question:Do you have Extra kayaks ?:D ;)
 
Last edited:

Spinal Tap

New Member
Jul 5, 2004
107
11
0
Funny you should ask. I was thinking about selling my OK Cabo (paddle, seat, kayak cart for $700) later in the spring. It's a beast of a kayak on land as it's 16' long and about 70lbs but on the water it tracks well and is stable due to it's length. I got it because the Necky Dolphin I had while fun to paddle did not have the capacity I needed. I was coming in with a fish in the tankwell and looked behind to see my stern was 2" below water. That's with one fish, I figure if I shot a 3 fish limit of big WSB then I'd have to push the kayak back.

I drive as close to the water as I can, and I have a kayak cart.
 

Roan

Deeper Blue Wayfarer
Jul 12, 2003
168
37
28
Erik,
Sounds like Nate has put in a lot of miles on a kayak... he's relaying some good information! I own a Wilderness Systems Tarpon 140 that I like a lot, though admitadly I've only taken it out 5 or 6 times. The shop in Irvine that sells them does these Saturday "days at the bay" (Newport Dunes) where they bring alot of boats and people can try them.
I'd be interested to hear what Nate or other kayak paddlers who have alot of experience (I don't) with different models have to say about the performance of the Tarpons. I love the way it's layed out and it seems to move pretty well for me, but I don't have a large frame of reference. Funny thing is, it does'nt seem to ride waves into the shore quite like my surfboard did! :blackeye
;)
 
Last edited:

Spinal Tap

New Member
Jul 5, 2004
107
11
0
I'm not an expert on all kayaks or even all SOT kayaks. I've been using them as transportation and a platform to dive off but I've only used about a half dozen. My advice to anyone who asks what I'd recommend is to go and test paddle a few after doing some research on how you plan to use it. It's a very personal thing because almost everything is different from one person to the next: physical shape/ability, intended use, type of gear (length of gun), distance one is willing to paddle, budget, each paddler's height, weight, reach...etc. It goes on and on.

Having said that, you really can't go wrong with most of the kayaks out there except the really narrow ones(stability issues) or the super short ones (speed and tracking issues).

I'm a firm believer that you adapt to what you have.
 

mundial

love to hunt in silence
Dec 17, 2004
503
168
0
54
it is one of the nices kayaks i try i had one in canada for 1 day
it have almost everything and its quicker then others in this range
i buy the cobra f'n'd that is good for what i do and my equipment
you are lucky to have a wildernessistems sot kayak they are one of
the best companies around and your model is great, its sad that only in israel
we dont have them yet
 

portinfer

Aquatic shopper...
Jul 3, 2003
1,327
407
173
Jon
Oh dear, you got me started on something with that surf ski info :

Got my list down to :

Fenn Mako XT
(http://www.oceanpaddlesports.com/surfskis.html
http://www.fennkayaks.co.nz/fenn skis.htm)

or

Customkayak Mark-1
(http://www.customkayaks.co.za/)

Found this interesting info on freediving / surfskis

(http://www.sfdj.com/fall/freedive/
http://www.sfdj.com/fall/freedive/one.html
http://www.sfdj.com/fall/freedive/technique.html)

and now I want to propose a new event for the Olympics in the same spirit of the x-crountry skiing and shooting event :

"oceanic-underwater bi-athelon" !!!

What a winning idea - you paddle and target shoot at depth. Good luck controlling your heart rate....

Anyway - digressions aside - many thanks for helping me see the light and hopefully I can order a surfski soon and spend 3 months falling off it before the summer.
Ed
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. X
DeeperBlue.com - The Worlds Largest Community Dedicated To Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing

ABOUT US

ISSN 1469-865X | Copyright © 1996 - 2021 deeperblue.net limited.

DeeperBlue.com is the World's Largest Community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving, Spearfishing and Diving Travel.

We've been dedicated to bringing you the freshest news, features and discussions from around the underwater world since 1996.

ADVERT