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Teak gun - laminate or not?

Adammoore

Member
Jan 25, 2012
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Egypt
Fox am speechless !!!!! So u use pigment in epoxy what type of pigment ? And if its in the epoxy how do u do the patterns u paint while coating I thought you paint first with a pattern like for example as in silk screen printing then coat with epoxy now it sounds more co placated than I thought , anyway thanks a lot for your sharing your great info . That's how novice gun builder have references :)
 

foxfish

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The more laminates you use the more integrate the pattern becomes, you can buy pigment especially made for epoxy in either powder or paste.
Anyway you only need 3 laminates to build a good strong gun.
With the gun I am building at the moment, I have used rough sawn wood & a thickening additive as well as colour to the epoxy mix. I hope this will give an interesting pattern when the gun is shaped & sanded.
 

e.m.p!

Barnacle-Bully
Mar 29, 2008
121
15
58
Wellington
Sorry for reviving this old thread, but was looking for it for month on end and only by chance found it again.
I'm in the process of building my second gun, this time using teak and was thinking of the same techniques you used for dying the epoxy.
Foxfish – did you epoxy coat the gun after? How did it turn out after all? Would love to see more pictures…
And would be quite keen to learn how you bent the laminates into shape (steam?). What thickness do the single layers have? Can't wait to start again…!
 

e.m.p!

Barnacle-Bully
Mar 29, 2008
121
15
58
Wellington
Wow – this looks so cool. I've done mine with 6 layers epoxy and have learned the hard way why you won't go down this track. Turned out ok after a bit of hit & miss.

P1040312.jpg


Hence why this time round I want to use teak : )
Wondered how you bent the laminates on the previous pics? Did that technique hold the test of time?
 

foxfish

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Your gun looks great, well done with the shape, so much better than a square block design!
Two pack poly will go over epoxy so if you ever wanted to sand it back and re coat it, you could.
I hand planed about 50 .75mm laminates, I just bent them over a form 10 at a time then glued the 5 together. I did this over some time, just planed down a couple when I felt like it until I had enough.
 

e.m.p!

Barnacle-Bully
Mar 29, 2008
121
15
58
Wellington
Your gun looks great, well done with the shape, so much better than a square block design!
Two pack poly will go over epoxy so if you ever wanted to sand it back and re coat it, you could.
I hand planed about 50 .75mm laminates, I just bent them over a form 10 at a time then glued the 5 together. I did this over some time, just planed down a couple when I felt like it until I had enough.
Thank you! Shoots well enough too…
Your gun has a crazy amount of work and skill put in, will give it a go just a small scale version and maybe 10 lams max. Good to see how a finished version looks, thanks for the pics. Do you get the same 'luster' with a regular oil finish?
I've read that poly urethane over epoxy will give you a nice finish, but if you're sanding (thus mixing) it for fixing a ding you may end up with cloudy spots? I'm not too fussed with scratches though, I'd rather use a gun. Reason I'm not using a Poly is mainly price/shelflife ratio. I'm in NZ so pay a premium for even looking at things, haha.
 

foxfish

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I went to NZ a few months back, the rate of exchange made our three months extremely expensive!!!!
So weird that the resteraunts hardly sell any fish, plenty of " the best fish & chips in the world" places around though.
You are right about poly being expensive and it only last a year after opening the tins. I mix tiny amounts at a time useing a tea spoon so it will last for many guns, I keep the brush in the freezer wrapped in cling film.
Plenty of boatbuilders in NZ so you might get some cheaper than you think. Anyway, nothing comes close to poly for durability, shine or depth of finish.
The next best alternative & much cheaper would be a can of clear lacquer from a car accessory shop.
Here is an example of how shiny poly can be....
 

e.m.p!

Barnacle-Bully
Mar 29, 2008
121
15
58
Wellington
Well, I hear you – there are ways to get around on a budget. My favourite trick is to find accommodation in a township 30km from the 'actual' attraction and drive up there in the morning. Usually this shaves off quite a bit off the overall bill…
The good fish is usually exported (same like meat and fruit) and we're left with the scraps. But these scraps are at least as fresh as they get. Let me know the next time you're around and you can camp out at my place : )
Your gun looks awesome, now I'm really tempted to try that too – I quite like the oiled look from a teak gun though, so I'm a bit on the fence. At least I can sand it off and go back if I ever change my mind. have you ever tried a tung oil coating? Wonder how this works…
 

foxfish

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I use Tru oil on my guitar builds, it is a hard setting oil advertised and sold as gun stock oil.
(Amazing gun shops in NZ)
Tru oil will give an amazing deep finish but would work out about double the cost of poly.
To get a really impressive finish you need to sand the bare wood back to 240 grit without a blemish is sight. I find doing that is the really differcult part!
Once sanded back there are two main options - a penetrating oil finish that offers a nice and easy mat or semi gloss finish, easy to touch up and practical. Or a hard setting finish that can be cut back with wet &a dry paper to 2000 grit and then polished = a very shiny and showy finish.
As I offer most of my guns as competition prizes, I like them to look shiny.
It would be great if you built a new gun with 10 laminates & coloured epoxy glue but I think if you go to that much trouble you should use a hard finish that can be polished.
Can spray to seal the wood with Tru oil over the top would look fantastic.
 

e.m.p!

Barnacle-Bully
Mar 29, 2008
121
15
58
Wellington
Where about s do you live?
Wellington.
Consider yourself invited… (and bring your gear). Foxfish – are you using a rotisserie for coating with Poly? Also in your video you said it's an epoxy finish… My gun has 6 layers of surfboard epoxy (@$80 p.l.!) but nowhere close to your quality. Think practice makes perfect.
I'll have a look at the Tru oil option, seems to be the ticket – first time I hear about it, but a friend is building his own stocks, so he may have some spare. Is the 90ml option enough for one gun?
Seeing your guns I'm still quite on the fence about poly coating it. It took me over a year to get my mitts on some teak, and I quite like the idea of not having to worry about sealing it with either poly or epoxy. I have hardware for one more gun (but not the time just yet) + so much more ready available wood options that would need a proper seal, like kwila, jarrah, puriri or maybe lancewood. Iroko and Sapele is available too (as in the gun in the pic). Still new to building guns, but almost enjoy the wood working more than the finished product, haha
 
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foxfish

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We stayed in Wellington a couple of times, once in a real luxury air b&b above Countdown in Willis street and also in Miramar right alongside the Weta Workshop.
You are lucky to have such an array of wood to choose from, teak is not my favourite wood as it is boring compared to something like Lacewood! Monterey Cypress is my favourite tone wood, I was drooling at all the Monterey trees you have.
My best mate has a holiday home in the Bay of Islands, right at the edge of the sea but I doubt if we will be going back for a few years due to the expense... unless the exchange rate improves for us that is.
I love Tru Oil it really warms up the woods tones, it is also really easy to apply but you need around 20 coats to get a really flat pro finish. I have been known to give guitars 50 coats but that would be over a years or so.
I did loads of boat fishing but I only went in the water a few time with a mask on, I did see lots of fish though... you are lucky in many ways.
Funny enough, my home has a strange affinity with NZ, if you dug a hole in my back garden you would appear about 50 miles off the coast of middle South Island.
 

foxfish

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Yes I did say I used epoxy varnish in the video but I didn't. I used polyurethane two pack varnish made by
International. no I don't use any form of rotation because the polly is a purpose designed top coat product and goes on very well.
Here is a multi wood roller gun that I have just finished
 

e.m.p!

Barnacle-Bully
Mar 29, 2008
121
15
58
Wellington
Wow. Your guns are truly an inspiration! Funny you mention the Monterey Cypress — I'm about to order a cord for next Winter…. My neighbour has a beauty of an eucalyptus tree he wants to get rid off in summer, so I'm toying with the idea of building #3 from scratch. Time will tell, I have a wee other project baking in the moment and probably will be tied up till he can walk.
I'll give it a spin with the coloured epoxy on some scraps tomorrow… one last question before I start – do you recommend filler (I'm using West system) or plain resin? Not sure if the colour gets "milky" when adding filler.
 

foxfish

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You will need thicken the epoxy, I use micro balls but west systems sells quite a few glue powders.
Powder increases the strength but pigment does the opposite so measure it as best you can, don't use huge amounts of clamp pressure!
Sometimes I use coloured paper in between the laminates, black looks amazing. I thought the paper might make a weak joint but it seems to work so far.
 

e.m.p!

Barnacle-Bully
Mar 29, 2008
121
15
58
Wellington
Found some thin paper and did a test run with dyed epoxy on the same slab (red) - using plywood wasn't the smartest move, but poked a bit on the paper layer (orange) and it's holding up pretty well. Think micarta is made in a similar way, so I think it should last too.
IMG_5387.JPG IMG_5388.JPG
 
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e.m.p!

Barnacle-Bully
Mar 29, 2008
121
15
58
Wellington
I'll keep you updated. Will strip and glue the blank next week, but start posting again when I'm about to get into the nitty gritty. Thanks for the tips, Foxfish- learned a lot.
 
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