Tech fins for the gear-centric?

[sickbugs]

i probably havnt used nearly the ammount of fins as many on this board, i started off using my bodyboarding fins (custom x) for snorkling.. yea sure i can move a bit faster on the surface with them, but my legs move a lot more ! underwater, more movement is not a good thing, especially spearfishing. with short fins, i couldnt effectively hunt parrotfish on my favourite ledge in 50 fsw, the best way to hunt them is to drop to the sand about 30 feet off of the ledge, slow descent, with very little movement (just twitching my ankles basically in the last 15 feet) when i hit the sand, i lay down on it looking at the ledge, then slowly use my fins to propel me towards it, this way, i imagine i look a bit less menancing than if i was hanging in midwater, and it does let me get within killing range of a good set of fish. longfins also have the good benifit of getting u back up to the surface, and fast, if you spend a bit longer than you anticipated on the bottom . manouverability is an issue you touched on also, well, first time i used my longfins, i was like wow.. i think i ordered the wrong thing,shoulda got a pair of plana avantis (scuba fins) but now, ive learnt the limits of my fins, learnt a few tricks to using them effectively, and i do all the cave spearing ect. that i used to do with short fins, if i was twisting around on the bottom doing rapid direction changes, im sure id look like a pretty ugly shark to the fish anyways keeping it slow and easy and relaxed is the trick to effective spearing, and longfins allow it in a way that shorter fins dont.

 

[cdavis]

Hi DB,

Good thread, sorry I did not see it earlier.

You are right that the swimmer is more important than the gear, but the right gear for the right situation makes a big difference. Just be careful what you are measuring.

I'm another oldie, originally a confirmed jetfin fan, spearing free and scuba. I switched to longfins when they first came out in my area. A friend of mine about twisted my arm off to get me to try a set. It didn't take but 10 minutes of use to see the difference. I bought a pair the next day. I still use the jets, but only for special circumstances where they excel. Not too long back, I upgraded from plastic to carbon/kevlar (Specialfin Hybrids, hard) and started to develop into something of a gearhead, adding two sets of softer fiberplastic blades. Better longfin blades do give better performance, but the difference isn't large (for me) and kick style makes a huge difference. Turns out your legs optimize for whatever fin you are using, and the change is subtle. I spent a lot of time trying to measure performance in the pool and relate that to actual diving. Finally gave up and went by feel. For me, softer was better for all day, but, among longfins,the Hybrids can't be beat for power and acceleration.

I love to find somebody else using Churchhills. They are my primary bodysurfing and pool practice fin. Very good in their place, but for freediving, especially deeper than 30 ft, they are not the right fin. Try a set of soft or medium longfins, I don't think you will be disappointed.

Question for you. I've also been using something called the "Da Fin", supposedly a beach lifeguard fin from Hawaii. Much more power and acceleration than Churchills, but they wear my legs out pretty fast, great in big waves. Do you know anything about them?

Connor

 

[billder99]

A Fin Experiment?

Hi Connor,

I havn't heard of "Da Fin", but I looked at the website. The "strakes" look to be a stiff abbreviated rail for bodysurfing either rights or lefts... I always liked the concept of a better rail (ie. Viper concept), but they never feel right to me for swimming or riding a wave. The shorter rail on Da Fin looks like a better design... interesting. The "strakes" on Da Fins also channel a whole lot of water into propulsion which is why your legs are wearing out. You would would need very strong and fit legs to keep from cramping trying to accelerate with that much propulsion... they would have cramped me when I was playing water polo at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo (80'-81' Div II Nat Champs!), and my legs were definitely strong and fit. They market these fins as "controllable" but there is no way they have the control of a Churchill... again, too much surface area.

Several of the threads above, yours included have made very good arguments for the applicability of the long fins. My favorite is the argument that long fins allow you to move less in the water, be more still... this is very important when spearfishing.

EXPERIMENT:
I know how much the propeller-heads on this website (myself included) love experiments. Regarding energy expended or conserved, I would love to see someone do a semi-scientific test comparing short-fins and long-fins for diving (short fins are clearly superior on the surface with aerobic breathing).

Take a pair of each and work from a fixed depth, say 10-15 meters, with weights giving neutral bouancy at say 5-8 meters. Do a number of descents and ascents (no bottom push offs)... compare the actual time it takes, heart-rate at start and finish, controlled recovery times, etc. The difficult part: try to control "physical output" with each dive so that they are as equivalent as possible in terms of energy expenditure (too subjective, I know). Test goal: How much do long fins really help you dive or return to the surface in terms of energy conservation? (a repeated claim in this thread) You guys are very smart... I know someone will come up with a better way to compare the fins.

 

[Fondueset]

LOL! I'm afraid I don't have your degree of 'gear-centrisim'. When I discovered the amount of distance I could cover with a fraction of the exertion and motion on the surface, the dramatic increase in bottom times and ability to approach fish I put my Dacors in the loaner pile and never looked back. FYI - I have literally thousands of hours in with a spectrum of other fins ranging from Voit Vikings, USD hydromatic Champions, Weird Nemrods that were ancient even then, rocket fins etc etc.. Swiming in heavy surf, current etc. (mostly because I kept losing them!)
You keep mentioning speed - but it is really about stealth and energy conservation. My experience in, for example, the scenario you propose above, has been a dramatic increase in bottom times with about the same rates of ascent/descent and, of course, much more to look at once I get down there. Of course with long fins I can much more easily accelerate to where I rip my mask off or make my snorkle vibrate but, to my mind, swimming efficiently at those speeds - that is efficiently for apnea - is the domain of monofins.

I probably could have done with shorter fins last fall in the confines of the river during the salmon run in fast current though. Those were intensely aerobic dives regardless due to the near rapids level of current and a lower gear would've been handy.

In any case - your only satisfactory answer will come from trying a pair.

 

[billder99]

Fondueset,

What an incredible experience that must have been, swimming with salmon in swift current. How clear was the water? Were you there to soley for enjoyment of natures beauty, or were you there to hunt? (mmmm... salmon) You must have some great stories from that experience.

If you read my entire post, I agree with your statement that stealth is key to spearfishing success, and that if long fins allow less movement then the benefit is clear. With short-fins, I can usually get down 10m with two good dolphin kicks and occasional lazy finning... not much movement there. I will definitely try the long fins when I get the chance to try them, and I will compare them to my Churchies in as objective a manner as I can fashion.

PS: Based on the number of fins you have owned, you definitely live in the realm of the "gear-centric" (I like that word... made it up)

BD

 

[Fondueset]

LOL most of those were when I was a kid - did alot of diving in huge waves and surf on lake michigan. I liked the hydromatic champions because they were bright yellow and floated I nearly drowned in Rocket fins. The rest I mostly borrowed between waiting to replace lost hydromatics.

The Salmon run was a rush - there are several photos of it toward the bottom of my site - you can tell because they all have a yellow tinge. Here is a link to a little video I made of it.

Boardman River Salmon Run

Basically I just dove into an area of very fast current - it was nice of all the anglers to avoid me. Salmon are illegal to hunt here so it was purely a photo op.

At my current buoyancy - neutral at about 15 feet - I doubt I'd get 30 feet in two dolphin kicks.

 

[dr.ed]

Did a small test today. Compared my beloved duckfeet and my new omer mellium competitions. 100 yd finning with a paddleboard. ave of three trials: Duckfeet ~2'20" Omers 2' about a 1 sec difference in a 50yd freestyle. Let me say i'm way outta shape!!! Dynamic apnea duckfeet 25 yds Omers 35 yds. So omers win

 

[Jon]

Fred (fjohnson) did some neat tests with all of his fins and an underwater speedometer contraption a friend of his had made.

It would be great if he would post all of the results here, but I remember him saying that his Sporasub Cruise, rubber hockey fins, were aobut the most efficent, in the pool, out of all of them - and this included some carbon fiber freediving fins in the mix.

Jon

 

[PoseidonSv]

I myuself am a gera fetish beacuse for me transition to carbonfins and smoothskin open cell makes diving that much more enjoyable.

In the future I will add my full closed rebreather for bubblefree long dives with less nitrogen buildup.

Its just like Fondueset says; its not the gear that makes it but they open up the window to the beautiful tranquil underwater window to the blue.

Actually that is all that i like about diving and thats a strong thing.

 

[billder99]

OK, I'm getting tired of my dive buddy calling my Churchies "Gurly Fins" (sorry ladies... macho guy humor), and asking when I am going to get "real fins". He is young and strong and very fit, hunting regularly below 30m... I am 50 years old, growing horizontally, and definitely not in shape. I challenged him to a 200m swim, fins & method of choice... he says for only 200m, he will go underwater with his Picassos and kick by butt... I will swim on the surface, and I am confident that on technique alone I will win handily. What will this prove? Not one single thing... but you have to admit it sounds like fun. :ko

 

[marginatus]

please let us know the results!
Any chance of a live feed from a webcam ?