Technical Report Freediving Ideas

[Simos]

In my e-coaching program I prescribe exercises similar to that, with the idea of creating as much vasoconstriction FIRST, then exercising the muscles.

In fact, the evidence is mounting that doing a static on the bottom of the pool (Murat style), before even starting your dynamic swim, may increase the maximum distance you can swim. In the future, the dynamic world record might be done this way.

We do similar exercises every week ie static followed by DYN and I'm always surprised that the DYN distance after a short STA is comparable to just the DYN distance. Questions relating to this though:

1. I've always assumed the above effect has to do with the relaxation, lower HR and vasoconstriction from the STA. (not myoglobin)

2. Even if training this way does increase myoglobin, why would it help for the actual competition attempt? (obviously you won't increase myoglobin on the spot right?)

3. Is myoglobin in the muscles used for all breatholding (eg during a static) or does it come into play when your muscles work unaerobically for a long time and are close to 'failure'. In other words, would it help all STA/DYN dives or just the max DYN.

 

[Kars]

In my e-coaching program I prescribe exercises similar to that, with the idea of creating as much vasoconstriction FIRST, then exercising the muscles.

In fact, the evidence is mounting that doing a static on the bottom of the pool (Murat style), before even starting your dynamic swim, may increase the maximum distance you can swim. In the future, the dynamic world record might be done this way. One of my training partners set her PB using this method.

Trevor Hutton's experiments have also mirrored my own, namely that doing a static ON THE BOTTOM during a constant weight dive can actually SAVE energy in the end. Of course in 100m+ dives there is a risk that the narcosis might be end up so bad that you would forget to swim up.

During recreational dives to 40m+, I always have more air left if I hang on the bottom for a while, as opposed to ascending immediately.

Thanks Eric!

It fall right in line with my Empty lungs dive to standing at -3,80 waiting for ~40 sec for the bloodshift and then swim DNF for 67m with surprisingly ease. Well the swim was not entirely easy, as after about 20m the urge to breath really kicked in hard (swimming the whole distance very slow btw), but that sensation plateaued at 25m, and eased off a bit gradually, linearly to the 50m, the last part to 67m felt easier, way too easy for such a long slow - forced empty lung dive -, being so far in this unknown territory I decided to come up. My mind felt very clear al the way, recovery was ultra short - after the first inhale the bloodshifted back to the limbs, a feeling I very much enjoy

To bad I don't have the room, or buddies in the pool to train this.
The bloodshift always comes late for my body, something that limits my dynamic. Thanks for the direction of thought.

 

[efattah]

I just found another diver who has a PB of 104m DNF, set with a 45 second static at the beginning. Without static the distance PB was less.

 

[Kars]

I should try the same for DYN, I'm eager to know what that would do for me.
It will take some mental adaptation because now it still feels somehow weird to wait.
I wonder what the sweet spot will be for the amount of wait. Is it different for different inhale amounts? Would the static be also effective when one is tense? Would it still be effective for packed full dives? Gosh so many things to test and try
How about people with different mass to length ratio's, do they need more, the same or less static time, do their reap the same results? - Heck this could also be a nice research thing, exploring this ratio for the top 100 divers. Fat percentage included. Perhabs Trux's statics page already has these data?

 

[Apneaddict]

We call them "static-dynamics" and have found that you can wait :30-:45 sec and equal a PB performance.

It certainly helps with relaxation and slowing down the heart rate! It just seems to be such a tease - like you should have been able to go so much further if you hadn't "wasted" all that time / O2 at the beginning!

I may try for a PB next week with this approach.

 

[Kars]

1 Have you tried various start/static depths?
2 Is the distance to your first contraction affected?
3 How is the CO2 difficulty and narcosis affected?
4 Do you swim faster, slower or the same speed?
5 Was the strength of the bloodshift different?
6 What prevents you from swimming more? - Fatique of the body, or O2 shortage in brain?
7 What is your hight and weight? (in Metric please)

 

[Apneaddict]

1 Have you tried various start/static depths?
2 Is the distance to your first contraction affected?
3 How is the CO2 difficulty and narcosis affected?
4 Do you swim faster, slower or the same speed?
5 Was the strength of the bloodshift different?
6 What prevents you from swimming more? - Fatique of the body, or O2 shortage in brain?
7 What is your hight and weight? (in Metric please)

We mostly just do surface statics before leaving. The heart rate is lower than a normal count down, full inhale with packing, then a hard push of the wall

The distance is the same or a bit longer before contractions

CO2 difficulty is the same or marginally easier

It makes me start a bit slower, but mentally it feels a lot more relaxed and pleasant

Didn't notice any bloodshift difference

I stop due to o2 shortage, but I find there is less of a CO2 urge to breathe, despite the fact that I've been apnea'ing for longer

I'm 175cm and 82kg (was 90 at the time)

We normally don't do them for PB attempts, but at the end of a 25, 50, and then 75m repeat workout...

When no one feels like going a longer distance, we do the same distance with a static beforehand and it's just as easy, if not more so (if you are relaxed). The time before contractions sure feels more relaxed / calm, but that might just be added o2 deprivation.

 

[Simos]

1 Have you tried various start/static depths?
2 Is the distance to your first contraction affected?
3 How is the CO2 difficulty and narcosis affected?
4 Do you swim faster, slower or the same speed?
5 Was the strength of the bloodshift different?
6 What prevents you from swimming more? - Fatique of the body, or O2 shortage in brain?
7 What is your hight and weight? (in Metric please)

If it helps at all, here's some answers from me too Kars although as we do these mostly for relaxation (and not to push the DYN) they might not be very helpful for you:

1. In our club we do a surface STA, I only have experience with that but have done these for a few years so these answers are not based on a couple of times. I have seen people do a STA at 3m in another club (actually last time I saw someone do it at 3m it was Grace in case you wanted to ask her).

2. We don't push the DYN (always between 25m-50m), we increase the STA to make it harder instead so hard to tell and also I don't generally get hard contractions. But yes, I had times when contractions came earlier and in some cases even during the STA (but generally once you start swimming afterwards it's fine)

3. Not sure what you mean by narcosis but for what I do, CO2 difficulty feels roughly the same, depending on how much you push the STA and the DYN of course. On a good day it might even feel easier!

4. I have tried all. Until very recently I was swimming very slowly 90% of the time just to enjoy the feeling (as it was mainly for relaxation) but the last few times I did it I tried sprinting too.

5. Didn't notice any difference but don't think I've pushed the DYN enough to know

6. Can't tell you because we do a set distance and increase the STA - but when I have 'overcooked' the STA or wasn't relaxed enough, the DYN was harder in the same way that it is when CO2 starts building up (I'm CO2 limited)

7. 1.80cm - 70Kg

In terms of times for STA, they vary between 1min-1:30 usually.

Also interestingly, I have noticed many times that beginners that couldn't do a length (25m) manage to do something like a 30s hold and a length!

 

[deepergreen]

Ya, I don't think myogloben will work after all.... Most information on it is on the Internet and my prof only want 1 electronic source. But anything similar to that?

 

[deepergreen]

Actually I might.... Thanks for eveyones ideas