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The Best Training Agency?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

Who is the best Scuba Training Agency

  • PADI

    Votes: 41 30.4%
  • CMAS

    Votes: 12 8.9%
  • NAUI

    Votes: 17 12.6%
  • SSI

    Votes: 14 10.4%
  • BSAC

    Votes: 8 5.9%
  • TDI

    Votes: 8 5.9%
  • IANTD

    Votes: 5 3.7%
  • Other...

    Votes: 14 10.4%
  • Training? I've heard of that

    Votes: 4 3.0%
  • Uhhhh...Scuba? What on earth is that...

    Votes: 12 8.9%

  • Total voters
    135
Amphibious,you are correct on that answer.This is Tom Yerian, I am a hyperbaric technician, and worked at "Paradise Hyperbaric Center" in Marathon Fl, 1997-98. Of the dozens of hits I treated 90% were Padi. Of the 15 Instructors that were run through the chamber, 12 were Padi. As techs., we not only operated the chamber, but we took turns diving with the patients.To listen to some of the excuses and lack of understanding diving concepts by these padi trained divers is scarry!

yid...Capt. Tom Yerian
 
I'd like to see some more written up on what PADI divers are left ignorant about causing more dive accidents. It is scary having PADI training with nothing to compare it to other than what I'm reading online and in magazines - which has seemed relatively comparable. The recent material in PADI training seems very comprehensive and lays out the risk factors, etc. very well. I figured all along it's up to me to be in good condition and mitigate the other factors.
My training with PADI was great with all the instructors involved having extensive experience and in one case cross training with NAUI. In Cozumel for my OW dives - were 4 one on one sessions over 2 days and he covered everything and then some. It's fairly common sense to give yourself enough time to absorb all of it and practice enough before moving forward. Some do learn and advance faster than others so I wouldn't have wanted to be held back either - it felt like the courses were going slow enough as it was. On the other hand I hate thinking of how easy it is to end up in a situation way over your head and how some dive shops all over seem to let people do that w/o taking their experience into consideration.
I wouldn't have tried the "resort crash course certification" though and I think PADI should stop letting people do that. I did start out with a PADI resort dive master though and ended up on some really good boat dives then (BC:Before Cert) - 10 years ago - but the DM was very good and was right there with me and probably only took me out because I did well and was very comfortable. I'm glad he had the option because that's what made me want to be a diver. No one pretended that I was anywhere near certified though.
I do have a problem with what they call "advanced" - they need to change that to "adventure diver" or something else.
- Troy
 
Troy,all I can say is padi is the largest, but not the best.As a recomp. technician. the majority of the accidents were padi! Now they can say that because they are the biggest, there are more padi divers than the rest. I can buy a little of that, but I can't buy the fact that a preponderence of the instrs. I treated were padi. Now , that does show a lopsided figure, but the facts are there!


YID....Capt Tom Yerian
 
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Hi

i'm new on deeperblue but not necessarily new to diving. i just read all those posts. i noticed that there was nobody up the PADI ladder making any statement. i think someone of at least course director level should get into this and offer some opinions.

everybody talks about the quality of instructors being the most important thing. and i especially agree with the point that instructors are trained too quickly/too little. now where is someone telling me/us why it was decided to do it just like that? surely somebody who knows must be around? somewhere??

anyhow, and now i just read this hilarious/scary thread about the elearning system. another step of giving an instructor less responsibility and work. no need for teaching, just switch on the telly...

amazing

sandra
 
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Reactions: immerlustig
firefly said:
Hi

anyhow, and now i just read this hilarious/scary thread about the elearning system. another step of giving an instructor less responsibility and work. no need for teaching, just switch on the telly...

amazing

sandra

I think it is totally up to the student and instructor to make the best of it. When I did my training I got a copy of the OW DVD and did a lot of studying up front. When I got to the actual class I aced all the tests and this gave the instructor the ability to take me further on the learning curve.

There we other students in the class that didn't know anything and couldn't care. It's not the agency that teaches but the instructor. He cannot do his job well without dedicated students. Elearning is what you make of it.

Just my .02 (pun intended)

Dive Smart;Dive Safe
Enjoy the ride
:cool:
 
hi maresman

i totally agree with your post. but one thing is still lingering: if the quality of a diving course depends only on the instructor then where does the agency come in? is it not in their interest to only certify qualified people (instructors)? i say it is not, otherwise there wouldn't be so many causes of complaints. as i see it there is definitley a greater emphasis on quantity than quality. i'm curious if there is anyone of a different idea.

bye

sandra
 
Firefly,

I think you are correct, however the agencies can only set the standards and what is expected for the instructor to teach and student to learn. Since they cannot police every student, it's the responsibility of the instructor to make sure the student meets those standards. At the same time the instructor is under pressure to get more students through the course and on to the next level (more money), from all agencies. From what I have seen, all of the agencies have good rules and standards, just different ways of delivery (PADI, NAUI, SSI, YMCA, DIR/GUE).

Now, it comes down to how motivated the student is and how well the instructor delivers the training and rates the student. I have seen instructors so rigid that it's like training for a top secret SEAL mission and scare the crap out of people. They I have also seen instructors just go through the motions because the students don't really care and just want the card. I have seen divers with hundreds of dive under their belts do the most horrendous things to reef and animals.

So, that is why I said I think it is totally up to the student and instructor to make the best of it. It's up to the diver to then be responsible for skills, additional training if desired and and for the care of animal and reef when diving. If you think that the instructor/agency is not giving you proper instruction (if you know), then go somewhere else to get it. If I am a bad diver, then I am not the agency.

Dive Smart; Dive Safe
Enjoy the ride
:cool:
 
Hi, I'm just newly certified in SSI, and I thought it was OK. There are so many factors, though, it's hard to judge. I don't have any experience with any of the other institutions but I definitly wouldn't dive with an instructor who was not in the water with me! LOL I come from a lifeguarding background (Red Cross NLS) and I think that really helped. Same there, I wouldn't trust an instructor who didn't get into the water. Learning by video or on the internet is just the same.
I like the idea that an instructor would have to recertify to maintain instructor status. Lifeguards must recertify every two years.
 
Iceselkie,

Point well taken. I think the point here is to give the instructor more time for in water exersizes and working with the student on skills. By giving the student more time to study outside of the class room, they should be better prepared for the class room work and the in water skills (if they really study).

Dive Smart; Dive Safe
Enjoy the ride
:cool:
 
I thought i'd stir things up a bit with a small poll...who do you think is the best Scuba Training Agency? :D
I really do not believe that any agency is the best. I do however find some of my fellow instructors fall short of having leadership qualities. One thing that should be addressed is an instructors ability to phisicaly stop a student from injuring themselves or others. I dont believe that a 90 pound female should be teaching a 200 pound male . In the event of an emergency there is no way she could control her student . I am a Kung fu instructor as well a scuba instructor and have a good idea of what people are capable of . Its a mater of size not sex.
I also believe that multiple choice exams are not an acceptible form for testing scuba instructors. Any person with a little time can learn to pass these tests and still not understand the material. I recently had an newly certified instructor in my store that didnt understand that we cannot use bodies donated to science to study decompresion illness. The fact that these bodies no longer consume air was lost on this instructor.
It would seem that quanity rather than QUALITY was what this training agency was after. I have refused to let this instrutor be involved with my operation for fear of lowering my own standards. No beginer should be subject to substandard instructors.
 
I just discovered this thread and I skimmed it rather rapidly, so forgive me if I say things that have already been beaten half to death.

I should start by disclosing my prejudices. I have a very low opinion of scuba certification courses. When I bought my first tank and regulator in 1954 at age 15, I had been freedive spearfishing on a fairly serious basis for a couple of years. There were no certification courses available. I read The Silent World and the small manual that came from US Divers and put on my gear, grabbed my speargun, and went spearfishing. The manual told me not to hold my breath on ascent.

I'm not recommending this as a way to learn to dive, but I survived it. Later, as a Lt. in the USMC, I went through a month-long US Navy scuba course that was very rigorous, and actually flunked people out of the course. Fancy that!

I was stationed in Hawaii at the time, and met my wife there and taught her to dive as a prerequisite to marriage. She was a very competent diver, partly because she was a very strong swimmer and comfortable in the water.

Later, we moved to California just as certification became standard fare. Dive shops would refuse to fill my tanks because I didn't have a NAUI card. A US Navy course was apparently not good enough. Coincidentally, every dive shop that refused to fill my tanks also happened to offer a certification course, and I only had to pay my money to get right with God.

Around the same time, I literally had to save the lives of a couple of certified divers. Does it begin to sound like I'm a cynic? Its true.

My wife is a rule follower, and she always felt bad that she wasn't certified, so I agreed that she should go through a NAUI course. I watched her class get its final pool session before going in the ocean, and it was pathetic. One requirement was to swim around the margins of the pool on the surface with tank on your back, breathing though a snorkel. I can't recall how many laps of the pool were required, but she was the only one who completed them without grabbing the side of the pool to rest and/or cutting across the middle. But every single student passed and went on to his or her first ocean dive. I almost refused to let my wife be in the water with them. Every student passed the course too.

My 12-year-old son was next to get a NAUI card, and it went the same way with his class.

OK, there is my history of cynicism. Now let me state the one problem I see with certification courses. I am not familiar with some of the foreign programs, but all that I know of in the US have a basic conflict of interest. The dive shop offering the course has an interest in passing the students for two reasons.

First, if the word gets around that students actually fail, then students will just go to their competitors.

Second, and maybe more important, the dive shop wants to sell equipment to the students when they are certified and become customers. If they fail, they will not be customers.

So to end my ramble, the only kind of certification that I would feel to be at all honest would be conducted by an organization completely separate from selling dive equipment, and that had no competition that might draw away customers by having a higher pass rate.

Some people are simply not fit enough to be in the ocean, or are just not comfortable enough in the environment to be safe from panic. For their own good, they should be stopped. But they won't be stopped as long as there is a financial conflict of interest that favors them passing.

End of rant. Next time I'll tell you what I really think of certification.
 
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I am Padi Instructor....am tempted to say that DIR divers are usually very well trained..
But the system they use is not for every one, but personally, I really like DIR.

I think it all comes down to the Instructor and the students attitude.
The Padi system is very well designed, but if Instructors do not properly use it as it is meant to be used...
 
I think certification is a good thing, but I am against banning the non-certified from diving, as they may have more experience and be better divers.

I have also seen people being 'pushed' through courses in the way that Bill describes, in diving and in other courses I have done or seen. I can understand that having a high pass rate is good for business, and none of us want to fail, but if someone isn't good enough, they should fail. Allowing this to happen is an insult to the better students, as they soon realise that all their hard work was unnecessary because everyone passes anyway. It is also dangerous, because a certification implies a certain level of competence.
 
i think tom's comment is due to that the majority of scuba instructors are padi trained. they are in the majority, therefore more accidents labelled to padi instructors. we had two NAUI instructors on our course with Emma, who failed the theory :confused: and couldnt do first aid. it all depends i guess...
 
I think certification is a good thing, but I am against banning the non-certified from diving, as they may have more experience and be better divers.

I have also seen people being 'pushed' through courses in the way that Bill describes, in diving and in other courses I have done or seen. I can understand that having a high pass rate is good for business, and none of us want to fail, but if someone isn't good enough, they should fail. Allowing this to happen is an insult to the better students, as they soon realise that all their hard work was unnecessary because everyone passes anyway. It is also dangerous, because a certification implies a certain level of competence.

Sorry mate, but...ok, maybe in the case of an experienced diver,but would you let you let your son or daughter go to a shop and rent some equipment, so they can have a look at a wreck?
bad idea.....
 
Sorry to reply on you, i was just to lazy to roll to the beginning. :)

I would think that there's an interaction between instructor, system and student that decide what organisation that's works best for the induvidual. I for example am a slow starter that actually can get quite good once started :) and a friend of me works best under quick pressure so for us to get as good as we can is diffrent kinds of courses best.

But, certanly the instructor is one of the most important factor to learn the practical skills but also to wake the thougt of what if.. On my advanced (yes, they shold change name on that one) we were 2 students and the instructor got us to count our medium SAC and would our air be enough if we had to share air in worst case senarium and also on ordinary dives. Woke quite some thoughts..

But, also the attitude of the student matters quite a lot! If we manage the certificat and then totally ignore everything is the fault our and not the organisations since do got a own responsibility.

Also what waiting after for example OW can make a diffrence in what kind of divers we become. Were I live for example there are no DM on the boats so as a beginner you learn quick that you have the sole responsibility for yourself and your buddy. I was lucky enough to get to dive with experienced divers in the beginning that hade the patience to show and help me so off course I dived a lot. Others that didn't have my luck prefered to do the advanced directly to get some more dives with the security of a instructor.
 
Sorry mate, but...ok, maybe in the case of an experienced diver,but would you let you let your son or daughter go to a shop and rent some equipment, so they can have a look at a wreck?
bad idea.....
No, I don't think that is a good idea. I don't know what could be done - maybe only certified divers should be allowed to rent equipment, but certification is a serious matter and shows a high level of competence.

What I meant is that it is not fair to have a situation where some divers are highly experienced and not certified, so they are not allowed to dive, while others have just about made it through a short course, and they are allowed to take on the responsibility of diving.

I take back what I said earlier, as maybe certification is the only way of keeping track of who is diving. However it is a great concern that most of the serious or fatal scuba accidents that I have read about have included panic as a factor. It is common to read a story about a new diver saying "My nose started bleeding and then my mask flooded... I started hyperventilating... Some water went in my mouth..." Clearly some people are not being properly trained.
 
i guess that the good answer for the poll question is:
the agency is of no importance....but it is the man who make the diferrences
i am an NAUI advanced scubadiver, but i dived recently with PADI divemasters in egypt and i was impressed by their work there....
the rules in scubadiving are simple....the one can just follow them and all it will be allright:):):)
 
somme of us are naturally bind to water....the others are not....
in the depth, the fierest enemy is the panic...
there are to many factors involved here
but from my experiences i can tell that the water binded people can learn very fast and don't loose theyr temper under water because they are not afraid from water...
 
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