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The Deeper Blue "Ultra Submariner" Project.
- Thread starterReefTroll
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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Agreed simple, back yard operation. lets keep the spirit of the home made spaceship! something a family can make.
next step is to head to one of my shops and find a cyclender that has failed hydrostatic testing (worth bugger all) lop the top off it.
then build a base plate and for the gopro and lighting system.
if you were to use and internal video light with the front of the light flush to the glass part and enclosed so the light can only travel forward then you would not have the problem of light reflection.
i figure a descent LED torch with a wide angle beam would do the job after all how long in reality does this voyage take? 2hours maybe. so a gopro has the battery and video life and any LED torch is more than capable.
of course we would need some way of messuring depth.....??? any ideas.
this is sounding like fun
DD
next step is to head to one of my shops and find a cyclender that has failed hydrostatic testing (worth bugger all) lop the top off it.
then build a base plate and for the gopro and lighting system.
if you were to use and internal video light with the front of the light flush to the glass part and enclosed so the light can only travel forward then you would not have the problem of light reflection.
i figure a descent LED torch with a wide angle beam would do the job after all how long in reality does this voyage take? 2hours maybe. so a gopro has the battery and video life and any LED torch is more than capable.
of course we would need some way of messuring depth.....??? any ideas.
this is sounding like fun
DD
There was another thread here recently where a standard flashlight was filled with mineral oil. THis is the oil that is used in the computer modding community to overclock PC's by submersing them in a bath of this oil. It has no effect whatsoever on the electronics and will help to overcome the pressure.
Further a lot of fishermen use polo mints to help to cast, when it hits the water it will slowly dissolve. Some sort of similiar 'candy' would also work I expect.
Was just thinking the same thing. A buoyant piece of syntactic foam (won't crush at extreme depths), connected to a ballast weight by a Lifesaver lollipop or similar ring. When the ring dissolves, the weight is dropped and the syntactic foam floats back to the surface with your instrument package. No moving parts.
I wouldn't go for a GoPro. We do not need a waterproof camera, but rather camera with a high sensitivity. You will find plenty of relatively cheap cameras on the market with sensitivity much better than the GoPro.
Since it will be all enclosed in a (hopefully) waterproof case, you can easily add a big battery for both the light and the camera that will be sufficient for many hours of operation.
Perhaps Eric could borrow an X1, though the risk of loss or damage is rather high, so at such an expensive instrument, he may hesitate whether it is worth of the risk. But if such video lands then on many websites and even on the TV channels as it happened with the DIY high-altitude balloon, it may be quite a good advertisement.
Just thinking.
Maybe there is a better way to:
a) measure depth
b) ensure you can retrieve safely without GPS
c) Provide a method of submerge as well as ascent
Just tie a rope to it
You see for the balloon experiment this was impractical as the weight that would have been added by the rope would have been prohibitive to the height reached…. less weight is best!
On the other hand, to go down to depths as is discussed here it would make sense to use the rope as any gain in weight would actually be of benefit.
As above, you can use the rope to calculate depth (giving current calculations), ensure a safe retrieval and limit the design and cost of the device by elimination the need for ascent systems.
Also, the simpler the device the less that could go wrong
Therefore I propose a weight, camera with housing and light source tied off on a veeeeeeeeeeery long rope!
Maybe there is a better way to:
a) measure depth
b) ensure you can retrieve safely without GPS
c) Provide a method of submerge as well as ascent
Just tie a rope to it
You see for the balloon experiment this was impractical as the weight that would have been added by the rope would have been prohibitive to the height reached…. less weight is best!
On the other hand, to go down to depths as is discussed here it would make sense to use the rope as any gain in weight would actually be of benefit.
As above, you can use the rope to calculate depth (giving current calculations), ensure a safe retrieval and limit the design and cost of the device by elimination the need for ascent systems.
Also, the simpler the device the less that could go wrong
Therefore I propose a weight, camera with housing and light source tied off on a veeeeeeeeeeery long rope!
Ok so the big issue is finding a suitable waterproof housing with a clear window at one end.
The window must be removable, most probably bolted in place with an O ring seal.
So a length of steel pipe with a flange on one end & welded steel plate on the other end?
The clear window could be a disc of 50mm perspex (clear acrylic).
If we are using a weight to sink the vessel this should not interfere with the cameras view!
A hard foam float could be attached above the vessel but what sort of depth could the foam withstand?
Lets aim high & go for 800'?
What would the pressure at 500 600 700 & 800' be in psi?
The window must be removable, most probably bolted in place with an O ring seal.
So a length of steel pipe with a flange on one end & welded steel plate on the other end?
The clear window could be a disc of 50mm perspex (clear acrylic).
If we are using a weight to sink the vessel this should not interfere with the cameras view!
A hard foam float could be attached above the vessel but what sort of depth could the foam withstand?
Lets aim high & go for 800'?
What would the pressure at 500 600 700 & 800' be in psi?
Syntactic foam is used in offshore oil production. Some flavors can withstand 1000's of meters of water pressure.
i have the location: a 5Km deep trench 95Km out from my beach house:
[ame="http://maps.google.com/maps?q=google+maps+valparaiso&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Valparaiso,+Chile&ei=83-0TITnFsO88gaWuam0Cw&ved=0CBMQ8gEwAA&ll=-32.68562,-72.762451&spn=4.280812,10.821533&t=h&z=7"]google maps valparaiso - Google Maps[/ame]
Lets see, if we droped it at 1M/sec it would take 5000 secs down and 5000 back a 3hr round trip. Within a gopro battery life.
Some issues:
- no cell coverage there so a combined GPS/Cell unit would not work
- silt (i have heard) in those trenches is way deep, would the drone get stuck?
I am with trux on the no-compressible device with constant lift. Just need to release a weight. There are also depth sensors (pressure sensors in reality) that read to 1000bar so we should be able to log depth/time. Quite expensive though
[ame="http://maps.google.com/maps?q=google+maps+valparaiso&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Valparaiso,+Chile&ei=83-0TITnFsO88gaWuam0Cw&ved=0CBMQ8gEwAA&ll=-32.68562,-72.762451&spn=4.280812,10.821533&t=h&z=7"]google maps valparaiso - Google Maps[/ame]
Lets see, if we droped it at 1M/sec it would take 5000 secs down and 5000 back a 3hr round trip. Within a gopro battery life.
Some issues:
- no cell coverage there so a combined GPS/Cell unit would not work
- silt (i have heard) in those trenches is way deep, would the drone get stuck?
I am with trux on the no-compressible device with constant lift. Just need to release a weight. There are also depth sensors (pressure sensors in reality) that read to 1000bar so we should be able to log depth/time. Quite expensive though
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hmmm getting there,
would i not maybe be better to have the housing inside a torpedo shaped Foam? this would reduce drag on the way down and on the way up as well as stabilising the unit for better images. the ballast would still need to be mounted to the bottom.
i just figured go pro because of its compact size and backup water resistance, not to mention high quality video and easy of operation. but i agree there are no doubt plenty more options available.
DD
would i not maybe be better to have the housing inside a torpedo shaped Foam? this would reduce drag on the way down and on the way up as well as stabilising the unit for better images. the ballast would still need to be mounted to the bottom.
i just figured go pro because of its compact size and backup water resistance, not to mention high quality video and easy of operation. but i agree there are no doubt plenty more options available.
DD
thinking a bit about it, it would be cool to drop the unit on one of the huge drop offs in Palau that go from the surfave to over 1km in depth, that way we would have images of the wall and how the life changes, not to mntion wee would have a greater chance of finding something to take video of at the base of the wall than not.
DD
DD
OK don't shoot me down here, I know the idea is to go as free as possible, but a tracking GPS/Cell unit alone costs a couple of hundred US$, not to mention a $300 gopro. With the complete remote setup you probably have a 50% chance of recovery at those (over 1Km) depths.
Would it be cheating to lower it down? How about an electric motor (simple, DC) with drum of mono?
Jinkai 3400 Yd. Bulk Spool 100 Lb. Test
3400 Yds (3100 mts) of 100Lb mono cost $300. Would increase recovery chances to almost (bar huge snags or currents) a certainty.
Is the criteria to get great pics or more to make a remote droid that can come back by itself?
Would it be cheating to lower it down? How about an electric motor (simple, DC) with drum of mono?
Jinkai 3400 Yd. Bulk Spool 100 Lb. Test
3400 Yds (3100 mts) of 100Lb mono cost $300. Would increase recovery chances to almost (bar huge snags or currents) a certainty.
Is the criteria to get great pics or more to make a remote droid that can come back by itself?
A GPS that can get any signal down there would be isanely cost prohibitive.
Even the mining gear I've worked on hooks into the Glonass (Russian GPS Satt's) Satt's due to losing signal when in a deep open cut mine hole.
But the GPS WILL let you recover it when it resurfaces. But I can't see us getting one to work at any depth.
SO, depth gauge of some kind would be nice though, so from what I see, we have a few options :
1) A digital or mechanical gauge, would there be a mechanical version that the pressure will set to show it's max depth? (ie - one that will only register a max depth, and not rely on electronics etc)
2) A rope, which I agree, removes the fun, it just becomes a fishing line.
3) Just use a known area and use a rough estimate.
I was also just thinking, if we DO have a large space, suh as the dive tank, and can use this forextra battery as was suggested, the a release mech on the weight would NOT need to be timed well, it could sit o the bottom as the release slowly disolved or whatever we choose, take a few shots down there for a while, and then ome up in it's own time.
And for the basic design I did like that plan, I also agree on the angle of the camera view.
Even the mining gear I've worked on hooks into the Glonass (Russian GPS Satt's) Satt's due to losing signal when in a deep open cut mine hole.
But the GPS WILL let you recover it when it resurfaces. But I can't see us getting one to work at any depth.
SO, depth gauge of some kind would be nice though, so from what I see, we have a few options :
1) A digital or mechanical gauge, would there be a mechanical version that the pressure will set to show it's max depth? (ie - one that will only register a max depth, and not rely on electronics etc)
2) A rope, which I agree, removes the fun, it just becomes a fishing line.
3) Just use a known area and use a rough estimate.
I was also just thinking, if we DO have a large space, suh as the dive tank, and can use this forextra battery as was suggested, the a release mech on the weight would NOT need to be timed well, it could sit o the bottom as the release slowly disolved or whatever we choose, take a few shots down there for a while, and then ome up in it's own time.
And for the basic design I did like that plan, I also agree on the angle of the camera view.
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NA gotta have the camera! what the point indoing it if we cant get some footage of the trip. bit like the home made space ship, would not have been as cool if there was no footage.
deep water currents over the depth of 1km will greatly change the final location of where the "sub" will return to the surface. some kind of beacon system would be needed to ensure recovery.
maybe safety recflective tape all over it so it could be picked up by radar?
DD
deep water currents over the depth of 1km will greatly change the final location of where the "sub" will return to the surface. some kind of beacon system would be needed to ensure recovery.
maybe safety recflective tape all over it so it could be picked up by radar?
DD
thats my point, unless we go shallow (not much fun either) the set off point and the pick up point could be tens of kilometers apart. The GPS/Cel combo would allow you to find it assuming cell coverage, BUT there are no deep trenches (around here anyway) with cell coverage.
the GPS is only for surface recovery
Oh yes, we do need GPS for recovery, but we won't get any information from it during the dive, we won't be tracking its location under water.
The reflective tape /RADAR combo I think would a) be very expensive to get a radar, and 2) the water will give back just as good a hit as the tape sadly. We used to have to tune the sensitivity to ignore clouds etc with our an/tps-43.
A spy shop should have a cheap vehicle tracker which should work once it comes back to the surface.
The reflective tape /RADAR combo I think would a) be very expensive to get a radar, and 2) the water will give back just as good a hit as the tape sadly. We used to have to tune the sensitivity to ignore clouds etc with our an/tps-43.
A spy shop should have a cheap vehicle tracker which should work once it comes back to the surface.
good call Reef troll on the vehicle tracker. the tape does work though. its used a fair bit up here on the reef on surface marker bouys for that reason.
thankfully havent needed to use it my self up here yet.
Bjorn
thankfully havent needed to use it my self up here yet.
Bjorn