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Time to upgrade: carbon bifin or monofin?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

chojan

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2004
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I have read through many of the posts in this forum and still don't have much of an idea how to make an informed decision.

I currently have Cressi Sub Gara 2000 LDs, and I am beginning to feel like it might be time to upgrade my equipment, for the purposes of a competition environment (I'll keep the 2000's for recreational diving, I think).

So, for primarily competitive diving & training (constant and dynamic), what factors might contribute to the decision of going for a carbon bi-fin or a monofin?

It seems that for bi-fins, the C4's are a popular choice... but how does one decide on the stiffness (30/40/80)? I'm currently diving about 45m (and intend to go deeper). I am about 5'10, 200lbs with reasonably strong legs. As a recommendation, do most people end up using the Spetton pockets, or the Sporasubs (do they both fit the blades)?

For monofins, it seems that the Waterway brand are a popular recommendation. I know nothing about monofins, and even less about the footpocket substitution dilemnas with them!

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
 

Seal

Deepsy
Apr 29, 2003
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I can relate to that problem.

I have a pair of Gara 3000 now. And on monday I will get my pair of C4 fins stiffness 40

So if you can wait for a week I will give you a full report of the C4's performance and feeling of stiffness. I'm going to Norway to test them out. And will be home next tuesday.

I'm 5'11 and 80kgs (160lbs?) and felt that I wanted a stiff fin, since I have had a stiff carbon fin before and it worked great. I use a combo of flutter kicking and mono kicking, wierd? Yes but it works for me.

I have also considered the monofin. But since I'm not a completely hardcore freediver and like to bring my speargun from time to time I vent for the bi-fin. + the 40 C4 has been to over 90m so that seems ok.

Cya
 

ivan

looking for deeper water
Jan 26, 2002
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hi

I would suggest that you should stick with bifins and go with either the C4's or have a look at the matrix/waterway bifin range. They come in a range of stiffness from 1-5 if you intend to go deep I would say the 5's. I personally have the 5# stiffness but have yet to test them in the ocean however in the pool they were a dream to use compard to plastics. With the C4's the 40's were used by stepanek to do 93m so I guess you can't really go wrong there.

Most of the DEEP!!! guys will say go for a mono but if you said you know little about them I would stick with what you know. I made the exact same choice a while back when upgrading from plastics and stayed with bifins becasue I knew very little on monofins or how to use them plus bifins are fairly idiot proof :D

cheers
 

efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
3,294
487
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As far as propulsion is concerned, I have tried almost every type imagineable, and I would never use anything other than the following:

For bifins:
- Waterway fiberglass + sporasub pocket
- Matrix fin (same as above, different sticker name)
- M-Technic medium w/sporasub footpocket
- C4 Falcon 40 w/sporasub footpocket

(the M-technic and falcon 40 are way too expensive and fragile, and perform, in my opinion, no better than the waterway fiber blades)

For monofins:
- Waterway blade, preferably custom
- Footpocket: either Finis (hard-to-get), or waterway
The waterway footpocket is far lighter than the finis and comes in larger sizes. It is easy to get. The finis footpocket is much heavier, more comfortable, and hard to get.

Personally I dislike the monofins with 'bifin' footpockets.

You could also buy a finis monofin (tapered competitor), which is a waterway blade with a pre-bonded finis footpocket. Make sure to get the medium or soft blade though; the 'stiff' finis tapered competitor is way too stiff. I think Erik Young has a medium finis tapered competitor. It is easy to get. The hard thing is to get the finis footpockets by themselves.

Also, if you want, I have about 25 monofins that I no longer use; none of them are great, but some might work for you! I also have some OMER rekord evolution pro carbon bifins, but they are too stiff in my opinion.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 

ivan

looking for deeper water
Jan 26, 2002
1,503
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hi

Eric it seems that you have good reports about the waterway/matrix bifin range.

So if you had no choice but to use bifins at the upcoming world champs and I gave you my matrix siffness 5# fins with omer pockets, how much depth would we expect you to loose/gain by changing from your much liked mono's to the top end bifin range :) Ive always wanted you ask this question?

cheers
 

chojan

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2004
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Thank you very much for the advice...

At this stage I'll take your recommendation on the Waterway bifins. Having a Canadian distributor for the Power Blades is a plus.

Lastly, what stiffness rating might be most appropriate? From other reading on here, I've seen suggestions in the range 3-5 -- what might be best for deep / distance? These will probably only be used for shorter stints (no spearo, just comps/training).

Thanks!
 

pat fish

staying in the blue zone
Feb 19, 2004
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when it comes to the monofin discussion it is the stiffness that matters and the quality of footpockets (as eric mentioned). if you start practicing with a monofin and want to use it for dynamics too -do not take a blade which is too stiff/hard. your abdominal muscles will be overloaded and you will acquire the same knee-bending-style 90% of all freedivers show from the very beginning. just my 2 cents.

pat
 

Snorkel Bum

Absolut Escargot
Mar 26, 2004
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Hey... why not check out the new specialfins carbon, they have a brand new on that came out and it costs 290€... if i were to buy a mono i would probably choose that one!
 

Seal

Deepsy
Apr 29, 2003
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*cough*Waterway is best*cough*

Anyways I got my C4 Falcon 40 Spetton today, darnit! they look so cool I got emotional just looking at them :eek:

And the wierd thing is that the 40 stiffness is still softer than my old carbons. I can't wait to go to Norway on thursday and test them out! I put them in my old Omer "Valerio Grassi" foot pockets, apparently the footpocket wich the Sporasub Elites are molded after (looks almost the same) And it looks just like the footpocket on the C4 homepage the "Tecknosport"

And it probably is because they slided right in place :)
Also they are the exact same length as the Gara 3000 but 1cm slimmer.
 

Lambis

You take my breath away!
Sep 16, 2003
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I have today order Waterway Powerblades Nr3

BUT where I can order Sporasub footpockets??
 

Murat

Promethian
Jun 21, 2002
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Hey Seal,

How C4 stifness compared to the gara 300s? How they perform on the surface compared to gara3000? Do you immediately feel performance burst when you switched from gara3000? I already have gara3000 and want to buy C4-30-40 later...
 

Seal

Deepsy
Apr 29, 2003
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I have not tested them in water yet. I will be home on monday with a full report on how they are compared to the Gara 3000.

But for now I can say they are about 2x stiffer 3x more expensive & 5x better looking :eek:

They are soft at the tip and get harder towards the footpocket. I will only dive to about 30-40 metres this time, because my dive buddy couldn't join me on this trip :hmm
 

Murat

Promethian
Jun 21, 2002
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yeah 30-40 meter dives pretty safety:head

Thats reminds me i have a lot of work to do with garas before deserving the C4:eek:
 

Seal

Deepsy
Apr 29, 2003
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Originally posted by Murat

Thats reminds me i have a lot of work to do with garas before deserving the C4:eek:

No I wouldn't say that at all. Even if "only" going to 10-15m you still deserve a pair of C4 or other fiber fin.

Why? because with these fins I only need maybe 3-5 kicks getting me down to 10m and that gives me much more bottom time. And even more important getting up also uses way less energy and air. So I feel more safe and confident with carbon fins. It may be a false sensation of safety but it keeps my hearbeat low, so it works for me;)

For spearfishing around 10-25m I would personally choose the 30 stiffness. I picked the 40 because I would like to go deeper and have pretty strong legs.
 

Murat

Promethian
Jun 21, 2002
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yeah thats logical point of view too... Will wait your head to head comparision C4 vs gara3000.

Now all i need to do is find a speargun that shoot 20 meter deadly accurate with single band and thin shaft so i won't even need to dive:D Of course with thermal sensor,fish locater (not finder :)) and scope is fitted:t
 
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Seal

Deepsy
Apr 29, 2003
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Well a thermal view wouldn't find many coldblooded fish :D

But my friend and I have actually talked about mounting a small battery powered fish finder on our speargun (for use in really murky water) :eek: And I once had a Laser sight mounted, looked darn cool but didn't work well in daylight.

Now we are talking about mounting SWAT-style flashlights and going night hunting :duh I guess we will have to practice some room clearing before going in ;)
 

Murat

Promethian
Jun 21, 2002
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don't forget you have to throw flashbang BEFORE entering the room:head Switch spergun to full automod also;)
 

Seal

Deepsy
Apr 29, 2003
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Ok I have tested the C4 Falcon 40's in Norway.
I only vent to 20m (60f) because the weather was horrible! It was snowing and only 5 degrees celious. And this was on the 23 of may. Normal temperature is about 20c. And our boat had gear problems.

Anyways the fins are fantastic! 20m felt like nothing at all (well it is nothing) but really it was so easy getting down. And getting up is done in a few kicks. I also set a new personal dynamic record in full gear, suit, leadbelt, mask, snorkel etc.

As I said I monokick 80% I start up with normal kicking to gain speed and then switch to monokicking. So I dive down to 8-10m to get neutral and then I did 75m before getting up. That is alot better than my old carbons for sure. :D

About the stiffness. I choose the 40 beeing the stiffest C4 fin. I didn't find it that stiff. It's a bit harder than the Gara3000. I wouldn't personally need a softer fin for anything. For surface swimning they are also the best I have had. They stay below the water. And again very little effort is used to get forward. I think I might leave the speargun at home now, because these are so much fun just swimming around with:eek:

One negative thing is. They are very fragile, do not EVER touch the bottom with them! Or anything else. The finish is very thin so I have put some duct tape on the tips to keep them from getting teared up. I could post some pics sometime.

Well cya around. Can't wait to try these in a pool. With the monokick they are killers!
 

feign

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2003
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Does anyone dive with the C4 80's. I understand that they are longer, but what is the stiffness like? Are the 80's practical for everyday freediving or are they only competition? thanks.
 

noa

Well-Known Member
Oct 17, 2003
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Got some issues i don't understand... it seems many people use bi fins but mono kick with them. whats the use, if one preffers to mono kick, why not use a mono ? in regards to some comments about materials and foot pockets, how can one say the glass fiber is comparable to carbon. if the construction is of good quality, carbon is clearly supperior and this has been demonstrated in ways too numerous to mention. also how is it possible to say that the classic mono foot pockets, wich are painfull and inefficient, work better than bifin foot pockets ? i've also owned Waterway and Finis (competitor stiff !) and can say my Specialfins carbon mono (again stiff), with Omer footpockets is so much better in every aspect.
Delphicly,
Noa
 
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