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Tomba - All in One barrel sealing

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Pete, are you suggesting that I could reduce any recoil by loading my mamba guns under water? I would normally load my gun before I enter the water & very often I can stand up in the shallow weed beds where we hunt.

No, that will not do anything for recoil. The harder the gun shoots then the more recoil you get. Increasing the mass of the gun helps reduce recoil, or more accurately the mass being pushed rearwards, and that includes you as the diver if you were rigidly coupled to your gun. What we see as recoil is the relative movement of the gun with respect to ourselves as we are only loosely coupled to the gun unless the opportunity can be taken to brace up for the shot with both hands firmly on the gun.

The whole idea of the Mamba system is to allow the gun to be loaded while it is underwater. Some water going down the barrel is good, in fact the gun relies on it to stop dry friction on the internal barrel wall tearing up the front piston seal. Fortunately there is always some water in the front end of the gun after the first underwater shot and that gets smeared on the inner barrel wall during the next shaft reload. I dismantled a gun where shooting it dry (on land I suspect) had turned the "O" ring seal virtually inside out, it was some clear stuff rather than the usual black rubber. The gun only had the one seal on the piston, so must have blown all its compressed air.

One way to let a controlled amount of water in on a Mamba modified gun is to delay the Mamba slide corking up the muzzle as you push the spear in. If the shaft pushes the piston in for a centimetre or so before the muzzle seal takes up then a set amount of water will enter the barrel until the muzzle seal stops any more from entering. This water may decrease the thump of the piston on the muzzle shock absorber, however let too much water in and it will slow the shaft. Ideally you want the shaft to jerk free of the piston while travelling at maximum speed and then decelerate the piston. I got rid of this piston impact noise by switching to a hydropneumatic, but it has other problems, like being slightly too heavy.
 
This is mine Tomba-S (slider- scorrisagola) version of Tomba.

tombaspicdx4.jpg
 
Pix (diag) do speak a 1000 words I can understand it now, from the looks the entire system goes wherever the shaft goes...Yes???
 
Pix (diag) do speak a 1000 words I can understand it now, from the looks the entire system goes wherever the shaft goes...Yes???

Yes, settingsteel. That is for Tomba-S at the last picture. Did you see a video at the beginning, after the first pictures? That system is different from the last.
 
Here are few pictures, how Tomba is made. I made it yesterday afternoon.
This is a different version of Tomba. The biggest plastic piece (body of tomba) stays in the muzzle, if the shaft has no butt, otherwise flay away with the shaft. This part has no O-ring to seal the shaft. It seals the shaft only as it is. The hole inside the body of tomba is just a little bigger then the shaft diameter. Other parts always fly away with the shaft. The idea was to have a good air tight condition during loading the gun an before firing. This is accomplished by using the rubber tubing and the O-ring (O-ring is not necessary). Plastic ring just helps to keep parts together and to ease loading of the shaft and to shield the tubing and the O-ring after fire. When the shaft is fired the rubber tubing also flay away with the plastic ring. The idea was to make the friction between the tomba parts and the shaft as low as possible after fire the shaft. During loading the gun, the friction is biger because of rubber tubing friction.

izrada1rs5.jpg


izrada2yg5.jpg

tombav3drwenlo5.jpg

On this drawing there is no O-ring under the rubber tubing. O-ring is not necessary.
 
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That is amazing my friend, just a few basic tools & you can make a brilliant little device.:)
 
If you look at the last drawing you can see there is not O-ring under the rubber tubing. This type of Tomba do not need O-ring to seal the shaft.
 
Tromic, I am truly impressed, with your ingenuity....glad to have you here in DB, as many of us truly enjoy sharing such great info around this "blue" planet:thankyou...kudos bro

For some reason I do not see the you tube link???
 
...Tromic it could be much easier and it was posted years ago on italian forums....
just use the scorrisagola devoto as the one shown in your pic.... enlarge the
front hole to accept the oring that will prevent water licking between barrel and scorrisagola then make a new tip of muzzle with the oring inside (just like tovarich)
the oring hole has to be as large as the scorrisagola. this will prevent water licking between scorrisagola and muzzle.....
 
Thank you for your reply MARMIR.

...Tromic it could be much easier.. .

I don't find it easier what you described. The last described tomba is really very simple. It could be even more simple if you just glue the tomba' s body to the muzzle. Then you even don't need O-ring.

Have you a link at that italian forum? I would like to see some pictures if there are any.

.... enlarge the front hole to accept the oring..
MARMIR, this enlarging the hole is very demanding operation because the boring mast be very precise.
 
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Here is a good explanation on how this last version of tomba work. Popgun pete' s English is much more better then mine. Thank you again Pete

popgun pete said:
The use of a rubber sleeve for the spear to line slide seal is a novel idea, although the rubber sleeve may not slide very easily on the spear shaft. I think that when the gun is discharged the rubber sleeve and foremost plastic piece will stay at the front end of the shaft during the flight of the spear, however I do not see this as a problem. If before inserting the shaft the rubber sleeve is positioned slightly further up the shaft from the rear end then the spear can go in for some short distance before the muzzle is plugged by the sleeve spreading over the conical face of the muzzle slide or the muzzle slide being pushed into place in the muzzle and thus sealing it off from further water intrusion. Then a small amount of additional water could be introduced to the barrel before the seal is created, the amount of water depending on where you position the rubber sleeve on the shaft. In that case the rubber sleeve being resistant to moving on the shaft will be to your advantage as it will first spread at the rear end over the conical face of the muzzle slide before being pushed forwards along the shaft by the loading action. I had thought of using a rubber sleeve for this purpose with a regular Mamba slide system.

The problem will be to maintain the thin leading edge or lip of the muzzle slide so that it easily pushes under the rear end of the rubber sleeve, however the lubricating properties of water should assist the sleeve moving into place. The sleeve may also spilt from the rear end with repeated use, cuts or cracks can propagate easily in soft rubber under tension, so the sleeve may need replacement if it starts to split from the rear end. As I assume you are using surgical rubber tubing for the sleeves then they should be easy to replace if problems ever develop and it would be easy to carry some spare sleeves. The length of the rubber sleeve assists the sealing on the shaft as water pressure collapses it onto the shaft, but the longer the length of the rubber sleeve then the harder it will be to push it along the shaft by hand when preparing for the next shot. I assume that the foremost plastic piece in front of the sleeve is there to assist in pushing the sleeve along the shaft in this version of the Tomba.

Regards, Pete

This is my reply to Pete:

tromic said:
Pete, thak you for your opinion and time.

popgun pete said:
... I think that when the gun is discharged the rubber sleeve and foremost plastic piece will stay at the front end of the shaft during the flight of the spear,...
Yes, that is what I want, to stay at the front end of the shaft.
popgun pete said:
...Then a small amount of additional water could be introduced to the barrel before the seal is created, the amount of water depending on where you position the rubber sleeve on the shaft.

A small amount of water will also enter the barrel after the gun is discharged because the sealing between the Tomba's body and the shaft is not 100% (purposely, to reduce friction)

popgun pete said:
...
As I assume you are using surgical rubber tubing for the sleeves then they should be easy to replace if problems ever develop and it would be easy to carry some spare sleeves.

Yes I do.

popgun pete said:
... I assume that the foremost plastic piece in front of the sleeve is there to assist in pushing the sleeve along the shaft in this version of the Tomba.

Yes, plus to shield it against the water during flight of the spear so it would not slip down.

popgun pete said:
Regards, Pete

Regards, Tomislav
 
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....oh Tromic.....I'm so sorry I did not see your first thread.....Ihad only saw the last pic.....

you really did A GREAT JOB!!!!
 
very good idea man! but honestly how long would this take under water to do? another good note on this is the amount of energy not wasted as opposed to the more physical charging of a pneumatic gun. Very good idea i guess you can give and take on your idea vs the traditional charging. Nevertheless, you my friend are making very generous contributions to the field of air guns and spearfishing guns in general! =P
 
I think it looks great, give it a try & let us know just how well it works.
 
Here is the picture again. It disappeared from imageshark?



This is similar in operation to the tomba at the very beginning of the tomba post, but more simple to make. The rubber tubing in contact with the spear should be as short as possible to keep the friction low. It is helpful to lubricate the spear. I think that the O ring version with tubing is better then this one but this is easyer to make.
 
This is a slider version of tomba at the 7 mm shaft for Cyrano 850. There is also an easy to make slip tip made from a piece of demka 6,5 mm shaft.
 
This is the latest version for 6,5 mm shaft. No O-rings. Adapter to the muzzle is at the right side.
 
This is my latest tomba. The adapter is changed so it can accept the rubber tubing at the right of the adapter.


 
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