training- why are some days better than others?

[mermaidgirl]

Today I had a pretty good day in the pool but a couple days ago my breath hold was horrible. I train regularly 3 days on then one off. I mix technique work with conditioning sets and exercises.
So, why do you think that some days are great and others not so much? Seems the other people I train with have similar experiences.
I happy to hear any ideas

 

[mystiach]

On the purely physical side, I find hydration, how rested I am, how fatigued from previous days' exercise, what my diet has been like, if I'm properly warmed up, if I have any injuries... etc make a small difference. On the mental side, stress, exhaustion and inability to focus make a huge difference. If I 'feel' bad I can't relax properly and tend to focus more on negative sensations, making them worse, and results won't be as good or the same result will feel harder. If life is bloody great everything is easy!

One of the best pieces of advice I have ever been given was that I could improve the most when I felt my worst, because when everything comes easily, not much learning is happening. The results may not be as good, but approaching the 'bad' days with the right mindset means that it's possible to identify weaknesses and how to address them. Ok, it is a little simplistic, but there is an element of truth there and I find it is a good way to keep every session constructive.

Cheers

 

[Rik]

Dear Mermaid Girl

It sounds like you are training a lot. You have to watch out for over training yourself. Do you have a training schedule planned for a whole year? Mixing trainingsstyles sounds good, but if you want to improve year after year, you might want to learn more about training cycles.

 

[mermaidgirl]

Dear Mermaid Girl

It sounds like you are training a lot. You have to watch out for over training yourself. Do you have a training schedule planned for a whole year? Mixing trainingsstyles sounds good, but if you want to improve year after year, you might want to learn more about training cycles.

Rik,
I am a former swimmer and am used to training 5 hours day x 7days a week. I used to swim over 20k per day. Freedive training is a big slow-down for me . I started freediving about 2 years ago and have done 3 comps. I am an "older" competitor and believe I need to maintain my conditioning more so than those who are younger. Maybe being older is more difficult physically? I did talk to Natalia about that. She trains very hard,as well.
I have a pool comp. in Oct and will start my taper in a couple weeks. After that, I am leaving for the Bahamas to train depth with William and Sara. I am very excited about that! I have some equalization issues to work on. Then I'll come back to the pool and not sure what?

thanks,to both of you for your help.
Carla

 

[Rik]

Ah, that's a different story then! To my knowledge, older athlete's are more prone to injuries. I don't have a direct answer to your original question. I still think it can be caused by a high workload, but perhaps that Sara and William have some advice regarding training programs and keeping a positive balance in experiencing your training.

 

[Kars]

Keep a detailed journal, note all the things suggestions and factors mentioned above, and over time you'll detect the hidden patterns that will explain the areas you can improve in.

3 days in a row of intense apnea pool training is way to much for me. I'm 33 just years old.

What I do when doing much training is having my food balanced and and quickly after the training. This is followed preferably with an hour of sleep.

Also consider your nutrition, vitamins and minerals. These days much food have only a small portion of the nutritional values they had say 30-40 years ago. Artificially created added vitamins are not effective. Eat organic local, in season, non GMO whole food.

And when you have an off day, don't be afraid to go slow and drop the desire to perform with big numbers. I like to revert haveing good feelings and remaining in easy zone. Just enjoy the gliding, the water flow, the flow in swimming slow en fluidly. More often then not I find myself doing near to normal numbers unknowingly at the end of the training.

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

 

[Don Paul]

Jacques was 56 years young when he went 105 meters in 1983.
Your just a kid lass.:t

I use to swim/dive 3 days a week for 30 years but now at age 58 I'm slowing down and just want to have a glass of wine and a nap after the gear is washed and I catch up on some lost sleep.

What I can feel now are the wounds from contact sports (and bouncing in a NY club) every morning, but after the first round of deep breathing and some sit ups I'm good to go....even if I limp a little.:crutch

Good luck in your training rotation girl.

Cheers, Don

 

[Don Paul]

Great recommendation Kars, Thank you.

Cheers, Don Paul

 

[Kars]

I'm sorry I did not refresh the page before posting my comment, giving some redundant information you already may know.

Wow 20k a day???? That's ... incredible!

I must say I agree with freedivers like Sebastian Naslund and Dave Mullins when they favour short but tough training, such as doing just a maximum dive, or a small number of sub maximum (85%) dives.
I also agree with what another DB member said that it's good to have a good conditional basis, and a solid quality of swimming technique. To be obtained by long(er) distance swimming.
When you have this I think strength and anaerobic endurance should be the focus.

Talk to William and Sara and ask for preparation tips and exercises, which will prepair you to have a great depth experience at Dean's blue hole.

Thank you for participating on this forum, I would love to hear about your swimming career, what you've learned, what you find within freediving. (I tried a bit to turn Pieter van den Hogenband on to freediving

Godspeed.

Kars

 

[mystiach]

Keep a detailed journal, note all the things suggestions and factors mentioned above, and over time you'll detect the hidden patterns that will explain the areas you can improve in.

...And when you have an off day, don't be afraid to go slow and drop the desire to perform with big numbers. I like to revert haveing good feelings and remaining in easy zone. Just enjoy the gliding, the water flow, the flow in swimming slow en fluidly. More often then not I find myself doing near to normal numbers unknowingly at the end of the training.

Great advice, Kars!

 

[mystiach]

Rik,
Maybe being older is more difficult physically? I did talk to Natalia about that. She trains very hard,as well.

Interestingly enough - speaking for swimming - if they trained as a swimmer when young, women can get back close to, or better than, to the same performances in the water for decades. Dara Torres, at 41, made the American team in '08 (ahead of Coughlin!). Shane Gould (at 47) made a brief comeback and swam in the Olympic trials '04. I can't find the results but she did well to make the qualifying time. It would have been faster than she swam in her heyday. Maybe as swimming is a lower impact sport, if you don't have shoulder issues, age isn't so important?

Also, consider the age of many marathon runners at their peak - mid 30s - much older than the record holding bracket of other sports. For sports that require a huge amount of endurance/mental conditioning, I think age, maturity, and experience can, to an extent, balance out physical edge given by youth. I really try to listen to my body - there is a difference between the good pain and plain overdoing-it exhaustion. If I am constantly getting the latter, I know it's time to lighten up for a few days.

I was a swimmer too What was your event?

 

[mermaidgirl]

thanks for all the great advice everyone.

I was a butterflier and have had rotator cuff surgery and wrist reconstruction- left bionic arm- lol. After watching the local swim meet ( PanPacs) Ive decided to train master's for the fly again. I love freediving but really miss swimming. I always "warm-up "for freedive training with a 400m IM.-- yeah- I know....dumb.
Happened upon William's arch dive vid and wanted to learn to dive so I took his first master class and he taught me no-fins. I did my first ever cwt (borrowed Kerian's monofin) attempt at the depth WC's. along with a cnf. I probably should really do cwt as that is my natural kick and I am a lousy breastroker-lol.
I'll try to keep a training record and find a pattern. Here in California we have a lot of local, organic, produce available year 'round so I have no excuse for poor nutrition.
thanks again everyone. I'll let you know how I do in our little Cali comp.

 

[mystiach]

I feel your pain - I was a breaststroker so have spent the last 3 months fixing my fly kick, finally it's starting to work now. You should definitely go for CWT - it will be so easy for you!

Have to say 140km per week is pretty heavy training. Is this usual for America? I'm really surprised! I thought the eastern europeans had the biggest mileage in the world at about 60-80km per week. Us lazy aussies rarely do more than 40 - on a big week. Must be the barbecue calling...

Good luck for your comp!

 

[Kars]

In addition, because freediving is done on breath-hold, anaerobe , the training is much more demanding than regular aerobic pool training.

I've heard comparisons that Freediving would be tougher than chopping wood with an axe in a sports setting.

Also would those extra km's in a week make up for the exhaustion and wear and tear of the body in swimming?
I don't think more KM's equal better performance. I think it's rather HOW you use your KM's - water time.

 

[mystiach]

Totally agree, Kars - apologies, should clarify the distance question was strictly to do with competitive swimming, nothing to do with apnea. It's interesting to hear about the swimming load as Australia leaves one day per week as a recovery day, and has a strong emphasis on cross training - double distance absolutely doesn't mean doubly good results. It (too often) causes depression or chronic fatigue and many people leave the sport - the 'ultra-miles' approach to training was one reason we almost lost one of our greatest swimmers. Needless to say he cut back pool time, upped his dry training, started having a life and went on breaking world records. :friday

140km is insane. 20km in 5 hours, makes a 100m pace of 1:30. That's not counting set breaks, which would move it closer to the 1:20 mark for all strokes and drills. If you don't mind me asking, Carla, how did you manage that? What was your typical set like?

In addition, because freediving is done on breath-hold, anaerobe , the training is much more demanding than regular aerobic pool training.

Demanding? More like punishing! We must all be zenned out masochists

 

[mermaidgirl]

Mystiach,
I was old-school. They do more cross-training now.We did lots of sets on very tight intervals with little time between sets. No lingering like freediving-lol. Still, Phelps does a 2800m "warm-up" on race days and Lochte was still doing big kms in taper last week. The Aussies have lost their edge after Thorpe retired. Poor performance at the Pan Pacs this weekend. Hackett's coach is coaching foreigners for distance instead of the home grown. I don't know what the problem is but we need Aus. strong !
I was wondering if female physiology may complicate things in apnea? Do hormonal cycles interfere with breath hold capabilities? Fatigue,nausea, headache ,are symptoms we experience with estrogen variances.I think I will ask some of the other girls what they think. Of course pregnancy is another issue and then you have to discontinue and re-train after.You lucky guys don't have to bother with such things.

 

[Kars]

Of course pregnancy is another issue and then you have to discontinue and re-train after.You lucky guys don't have to bother with such things.

LOL, be happy you still can have children Before you know it "Brave New World" is here and babies will come from artificial wombs. :blackeye Apparently our scientist have already developed artificial semen... :naughty

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

 

[Mullins]

I'm sure that could have its uses... But wouldn't artificial sperm be more useful?

 

[mystiach]

Mystiach,
Still, Phelps does a 2800m "warm-up" on race days and Lochte was still doing big kms in taper last week. The Aussies have lost their edge after Thorpe retired. Poor performance at the Pan Pacs this weekend. Hackett's coach is coaching foreigners for distance instead of the home grown. I don't know what the problem is but we need Aus. strong !
.

Yes, but kms is no problem if you are used to doing 30km or more a week, it's to do with intensity. If you're going slow, it's not really an issue. Our distance didn't always change hugely in taper either. For warmup, we would probably do about 1500 before a meet and then a further 500-1000 before our swim (if it was more than 90 mins gap) in the warmup pool. As far as Aus swimming goes... I think it has a lot to do with the team dynamic. We lost a lot of really great people who were just as motivated to mentor and support the up-and-coming as to swim themselves since Sydney 00. Now... well, image and winning seems to have taken over. Not healthy team values - so team performance goes down. To be honest, I haven't really kept track aside from a handful of people I trained with.

That's what is really wonderful about this forum. There are people of all levels and experience including current WR holders who are happy to generously chime in and share their experience to help us all out. Coming from the cut-throat, jealous, one-upmanship world of swimming, I find it really refreshing, and I'm really grateful towards everyone here who contributes. I hope that as the sport grows, this aspect remains, because it's really rare.

Cheers from down under

 

[monkeyhatfork]

what comp are you speaking of in California?