Triple depth 2009

[trullalla]

blog's updated

.:: Freedive Dahab News ::.

 

[Kars]

Congratulations everybody, many nice white cards!

And Wendy well done, looks like your getting deeper every day! Even beating the men's CNF NR! - Well done!

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

 

[trullalla]

finally the last TD blog update (i promise!!), and yeah, i'm aware i'm almost a week late. i'm just very busy having a honeymoon and an instructor course with lots of useless candidates at the same time, sorry

.:: Freedive Dahab News ::.

 

[trux]

Gordon also joined the moronic club, for doing a beautiful 50m, coming up, taking of his goggles, saying "THERE WAS NO TAG", and then completing the SP. Now you tell me, how stupid was that? Very. This is why we gave him a red card.

Hmm, why did he get a red card? I do not see anything in the rules forbidding it. Just look at the rules - the protocol in no way specifies you are not allowed to speak. It only tells you are not allowed to make other/extra signals, but the information he gave you was apparently and unmistakably no signal. It was an information, a message.

3.1.17.3

​

​

Surface protocol:
1) remove ALL facial equipment (mask, goggles and nose clip).​

2) give

1 visible OK-sign to the judge.

3) give ​

​

1 verbal OK to the judge by saying "I'm OK" or "I am OK"

All the above items must be done IN THIS SPECIFIC ORDER within the time window of 15.0 seconds upon resurfacing. Before starting the SP and after completing the SP the athlete has the liberty to make multiple verbal/visible signals. However, as soon as the SP has started all other/extra signals will lead to disqualification.​

​

​

 

[rxcnc2]

Trux, you really dish it out for Linda... before she makes a meal of you, let me say that she is right. If you remove your goggles and say something else other than I'm ok, you are disqualified.
If the guy had said "no tag" and then removed his goggles, it would have been ok.

 

[trux]

Trux, you really dish it out for Linda... before she makes a meal of you, let me say that she is right. If you remove your goggles and say something else other than I'm ok, you are disqualified.

Sorry, but not according the rules. The disqualification may be common, but it does not respect the rules - the protocol tells remove facial equipment, shown OK signal, and tell "I am OK". It forbids multiple or extra signals, but it does not forbid telling something else in the meantime.

 

[osusim]

"Before starting the SP and after completing the SP the athlete has the liberty to make multiple verbal/visible signals."
Cannot learn English, learn Albanian :t

 

[trux]

"Before starting the SP and after completing the SP the athlete has the liberty to make multiple verbal/visible signals."
Cannot learn English, learn Albanian :t

As I wrote, telling "there was no tag" is not a signal, it is a communication, hence there is no rule violation in it. If it was meant to exclude any other movement than the OK sign, and sound other than "I am OK", then the formulation is completely wrong and needs to be changed. So far, following plain logic, every such disqualification can be successfully protested. Because if communication is considered "signal", then when I surface and burp (which I do), then I'd have to be disqulified for it too.

 

[shoutatthesky]

Trux, you really dish it out for Linda... before she makes a meal of you, let me say that she is right. If you remove your goggles and say something else other than I'm ok, you are disqualified.
If the guy had said "no tag" and then removed his goggles, it would have been ok.

Trux - Read this again

3.1.17.3

Surface protocol:
1) remove ALL facial equipment (mask, goggles and nose clip).​

2) give

​

​

1 visible OK-sign to the judge.​

3) give ​

​

​

1 verbal OK to the judge by saying "I'm OK" or "I am OK"​

All the above items must be done IN THIS SPECIFIC ORDER within the time window of 15.0 seconds upon resurfacing. Before starting the SP and after completing the SP the athlete has the liberty to make multiple verbal/visible signals. However, as soon as the SP has started all other/extra signals will lead to disqualification.​

​

​

Key words here are BEFORE and AFTER. In other words not DURING the SP. A signal is a communication anyway.​

 

[rxcnc2]

Trux, you should be a lawyer.
Indeed you might win your case if you argue that you should be disqualified when you burp because it is a signal. So don't say it too loud because Linda might remember it next time she is your judge. But if you argue that verbal communication is not a signal, you definitely would lose. Since I am sleepless tonight, I looked up the English dictionary (don't have an Albanian one): "Signal: any sign, gesture, sound, or action used to communicate information".

Maybe in future v13 of the rules they should write "words/visible signals" but frankly even with the present formulation no protest would/should be allowed to stand(*). Competitions are preceded by briefings, and if there is one point that the judges always stress is that the protocol should be an uniterrupted sequence.

(*)unfortunately, because I presume the guy was totally clean...

 

[trux]

Since I am sleepless tonight, I looked up the English dictionary (don't have an Albanian one): "Signal: any sign, gesture, sound, or action used to communicate information".

That's purely personal interpretation. I can find so many definitions of the word "signal", telling the opposite, that I see no reason why just the above one should be used. For example when I type "define:signal" into Google, the first definition I get is as follows: "any nonverbal action or gesture that encodes a message". Also your own definition speaks about "sound" and not words, so it would be again disputable whether only nonverbal sounds are meant or not. So as long as the term "signal" is not strictly defined in the rules, I see no reason why a competitor could not speak during the protocol. Although the judge may explain that protocol should be uninterrupted, I see nothing in that sense in the rules, hence it can be considered personal interpretation and hence mute.

EDIT: and yes, there can be also verbal signals. But a verbal signal is not any message you tell. Verbal signal is a previously agreed word (or sequence of words) used to communicate specified information. Kind of short-cut, abbreviation, coded message, or sometimes obfuscation. So for example "I am OK" is indeed a verbal signal, because it was previously agreed to be used for signalling your state. However "there was no tag" is not a signal, it is plain message, communication without any abstraction, or previously agreed association.

So, in conclusions, yes, perhaps the original purpose of the rules was to exclude extra speaking during the protocol (but perhaps also not). In any case, it is not explicitly included in the rules, and needs to be clearly stated, otherwise it is successfully protestable.

PS: and I would defend my burping during the SP too - since it is not used to transmit information that was previously agreed upon, it is no signal

 

[Kars]

For the legal meaning of words, check a LEGAL Dictionary. Sometimes the meaning is surprisingly different compared to what you think or read.

Language and Dictionaries

Trux your reasoning sounds strong to me, nice job.
Though I reckon your "burbs" may be a signal of "I did do a deep freedive, and equalised my stomach again instead of my ears"

- I think Rob King (Thanks Benny for correcting me, naming the very gentle polite deep diving man) from the US is a lawyer by profession, he may be able to help AIDA out clearing up the text to legal standards? - Though an added explanation of phrases and words would be helpful to the layman.

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

 

[BennyB]

- I think Dave King from the US is a lawyer by profession, he may be able to help AIDA out clearing up the text to legal standards?

You're thinking of Rob King from the US I think, he's a legal-type dude and highly regarded as the most gentlemanly gentleman in freediving.

Dave King is a teacher from the UK who really likes milk.

Start a new thread on the Post Burp Mechanical Movements if you need to, I want to get back on topic.

So is Linda really off the market or is it some sort of visa-related sham marriage so this bloke can become an Egyptian/Italian?

 

[rxcnc2]

So is Linda really off the market or is it some sort of visa-related sham marriage so this bloke can become an Egyptian/Italian?

Who in his sane mind would want to do that??
Yeah I am also wondering about this marriage, Linda come back and tell us all.

 

[trullalla]

Who in his sane mind would want to do that??

somebody with a south african passport for example?

Yeah I am also wondering about this marriage, Linda come back and tell us all.

here's the proof!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j-M057oi-Q]YouTube - Freedive Dahab Marriage Ceremony[/ame]