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Tuna
- Thread starter eric aqua
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 90 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
I must admit that initially I was a little suprised at these reactions, though after a little research and thought, I think I'm going to agree. It seems that these fish are still commercially fished on an industrial scale in certain parts of the world.
Good to hear a balanced reply back man.
A comment worth sharing...
It takes expert marine biologists time and examination to call it as a Bluefin or Yellowfin, closely followed by Blackfin or Big Eye. A tuna is a tuna in a millisecond in the water for a spearfisherman let alone in the poor visibility of the UK.
Bluefin have been migrating and residing in the UK for the last century at a minimum and will continue to do so.
Grandparents will remember the large tuna fisheries of the NE UK of the past.
Yellowfin, Almaco jack, amberjack, bonito have all been caught in the UK in recent years.
Catching food for your own consumption, in this case fish, rather than putting your trust in the purported, not 100% verifiable 'green' fishing method of any retailer of fish, is sustainable.
Great numbers of people living in towns and cities are becoming so detached from the food source reality that they are very easily led in the emotive sense and the people involved in these subsistence fishing methods are quite the opposite of a Jaws mentality.
It takes years to become successful at catching good fish consistently by whatever method and it is blatantly obvious that going for a walk in the countryside, sitting outside a coffee shop with a paper, or paying a direct debit to the WWF or similar, would NOT enable anyone outside of the pursuit of experienced spearfishing to have the foggiest idea of what it actually entails. This act was clearly reported to those WITHIN the spearfishing community and the modern media has been quick to reap and sow because of the reaction it would elicit.
Remember, by ensuring that the fish you eat are line-caught, troll-caught or dolphin friendly, means you will be minimising the environmental impact, NOT halting it.
Somewhere some third world 'green method' fishing person shall be happily catching for the retailers Northern bluefin, southern bluefin, pacific bluefin, blackfin, longtail, yellowfin, big eye, skipjack, albacore, dogtooth...um...I'll stop there as there are over 50 'tuna' species.....all to be offered as a piece of...er.....'tuna'......can you tell?
People and glass houses, stones....you know the story.”
Statement on the WWF Bluefin Page
The Atlantic bluefin tuna is a large migratory fish found in the western and eastern Atlantic and the Mediterranean Sea. This species is at serious risk of extinction if unsustainable fishing practices in the Mediterranean are not stopped.
I really do hope that the penny drops for people that any finger pointing, has at least four pointing back. I do believe more and more people will understand exactly what a poor line is being taken by ICCAT against commercial bluefin quota.
A comment worth sharing...
It takes expert marine biologists time and examination to call it as a Bluefin or Yellowfin, closely followed by Blackfin or Big Eye. A tuna is a tuna in a millisecond in the water for a spearfisherman let alone in the poor visibility of the UK.
Bluefin have been migrating and residing in the UK for the last century at a minimum and will continue to do so.
Grandparents will remember the large tuna fisheries of the NE UK of the past.
Yellowfin, Almaco jack, amberjack, bonito have all been caught in the UK in recent years.
Catching food for your own consumption, in this case fish, rather than putting your trust in the purported, not 100% verifiable 'green' fishing method of any retailer of fish, is sustainable.
Great numbers of people living in towns and cities are becoming so detached from the food source reality that they are very easily led in the emotive sense and the people involved in these subsistence fishing methods are quite the opposite of a Jaws mentality.
It takes years to become successful at catching good fish consistently by whatever method and it is blatantly obvious that going for a walk in the countryside, sitting outside a coffee shop with a paper, or paying a direct debit to the WWF or similar, would NOT enable anyone outside of the pursuit of experienced spearfishing to have the foggiest idea of what it actually entails. This act was clearly reported to those WITHIN the spearfishing community and the modern media has been quick to reap and sow because of the reaction it would elicit.
Remember, by ensuring that the fish you eat are line-caught, troll-caught or dolphin friendly, means you will be minimising the environmental impact, NOT halting it.
Somewhere some third world 'green method' fishing person shall be happily catching for the retailers Northern bluefin, southern bluefin, pacific bluefin, blackfin, longtail, yellowfin, big eye, skipjack, albacore, dogtooth...um...I'll stop there as there are over 50 'tuna' species.....all to be offered as a piece of...er.....'tuna'......can you tell?
People and glass houses, stones....you know the story.”
Statement on the WWF Bluefin Page
The Atlantic bluefin tuna is a large migratory fish found in the western and eastern Atlantic and the Mediterranean Sea. This species is at serious risk of extinction if unsustainable fishing practices in the Mediterranean are not stopped.
I really do hope that the penny drops for people that any finger pointing, has at least four pointing back. I do believe more and more people will understand exactly what a poor line is being taken by ICCAT against commercial bluefin quota.
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I'll define my thumb as part of the fingers and being the obtuse (well mines about 90) off forward
Initially I was really Jealous of the Tuna catch , still am of course. Then I saw all this palava about would you have taken it , and realized that I wouldn't have :/
One of my personal rules is if I see something I've never seen before I leave it be and go home and research it. I've passed up a John Dory, a Trigger Fish, a Sea Trout and a Conger because of this rule.
My research on the Sea Trout and the Conger made me very glad I didn't shoot them. The next trigger fish I saw bought it though
One of my personal rules is if I see something I've never seen before I leave it be and go home and research it. I've passed up a John Dory, a Trigger Fish, a Sea Trout and a Conger because of this rule.
My research on the Sea Trout and the Conger made me very glad I didn't shoot them. The next trigger fish I saw bought it though
Very good post SurfnSpear:friday. I have been a key person in the anti Gillneting Proposal (132) that passed years ago helping to restore our Calif White Sea Bass and inshore fishery here in Cali. I was also a long time volunteer on a White Sea Bass hatchery program, that along with hard work and private donations was taken over by Calif Fish and Game.
Last year at a MPLA( Marine Life Protection Act) meeting where local speros in Laguna Beach will lose access to to much of our points and prime hunting spots there
, a student from a science class says to me.....
''Why can't you get your meat at the grocery store like every one else? ''
The kids had been bribed with a free T-shirt, a day off from school, and free pizza to show their support for the 'environmental savior's' of our mother ocean, most of whom will never dive beneath her surface.
Cheers, Don Paul
Last year at a MPLA( Marine Life Protection Act) meeting where local speros in Laguna Beach will lose access to to much of our points and prime hunting spots there
, a student from a science class says to me.....''Why can't you get your meat at the grocery store like every one else? ''
The kids had been bribed with a free T-shirt, a day off from school, and free pizza to show their support for the 'environmental savior's' of our mother ocean, most of whom will never dive beneath her surface.
Cheers, Don Paul
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No opinion on the shot other than I hope someone enjoyed some sashimi after the biologists had their way with it. One thing i do know is that they are an amazing animal.......here's a Gulf of Maine specimine taken by hand harpoon, it would be great if these were to show up off the UK coast again.....
Attachments
To add fuel to the fire... it turn out targetting this fish is partly illegal in the UK?
But no fishermen were aware of it?
World Sea Fishing Forums - View Single Post - Is it protected, or illegal to land?
I wonder what the story is in ireland!
But no fishermen were aware of it?
World Sea Fishing Forums - View Single Post - Is it protected, or illegal to land?
I wonder what the story is in ireland!
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O
octopus
Guest
I do not think it is illegal.
As it says:
If you look at MLS in NW, you will find blue fin:
fish-sizes
And you won't find MLS for salmon, trout, silver eel as they are protected.
I am not saying it should not be protected.
It just seems that, at the moment, it is legal to spear it.
As it says:
So it implies that it is allowed to catch it, except you cannot sell it. Pretty much the same as any other speared fish.
If you look at MLS in NW, you will find blue fin:
fish-sizes
And you won't find MLS for salmon, trout, silver eel as they are protected.
I am not saying it should not be protected.
It just seems that, at the moment, it is legal to spear it.
Dunno, man, no expert by far, I'm only reading through a few threads now, but I saw this email from
World Sea Fishing Forums - View Single Post - Tuna Competition Pulled
That would imply it is an EU directive and that would make it illegal to spear... crazy huh!
Edit: There also appears to be a min size limit of 30kg also
http://www.worldseafishing.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3567978&postcount=37
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As I can see it it does not clearly state anywhere that this fish was illegally caught.
As it’s the first one ever to be landed in UK waters there are no clear rules to state either way, therefore it can’t be illegal so it must be legal.
Well done Brett for the fish of a lifetime and to be the first to do it within the UK.
As it’s the first one ever to be landed in UK waters there are no clear rules to state either way, therefore it can’t be illegal so it must be legal.
Well done Brett for the fish of a lifetime and to be the first to do it within the UK.
O
octopus
Guest
Well, I would not know of EU regulations that take higher priority to UK bylaws - I guess in all this regulatory confusion it is possible to have something like that.
To me, it looks like these regulations are intended to UK local lawmakers, rather than to UK "end-users".
They all refer to "member-states", not to fishermen themselves.
So, it looks to me that UK lawmakers should ensure local bylaws comply with EU regulations.
I do not understand why UK laws do not state it clearly - "these are the species that you cannot catch...".
It is really not that difficult.
Say you spear 20kg blue fin tuna in NW.
What piece of regulation they would use to prosecute you?
I would really like to see this - it seems that everyone is saying "in my opinion...", "it looks like...", "the way I understand it...".
Cannot we see it somewhere clearly in UK law?
To me, it looks like these regulations are intended to UK local lawmakers, rather than to UK "end-users".
They all refer to "member-states", not to fishermen themselves.
So, it looks to me that UK lawmakers should ensure local bylaws comply with EU regulations.
I do not understand why UK laws do not state it clearly - "these are the species that you cannot catch...".
It is really not that difficult.
Say you spear 20kg blue fin tuna in NW.
What piece of regulation they would use to prosecute you?
I would really like to see this - it seems that everyone is saying "in my opinion...", "it looks like...", "the way I understand it...".
Cannot we see it somewhere clearly in UK law?
I wouldn't be so sure, it would be prudent for Brett to come completely up to speed on all this crap so if and when (big if and bigger when!) someone has anything to say to him that he is certain of the in's and outs...
Right now the fishermen are completely put out as they were organising a big Tuna competition in there... if they ruffle things too much they may bring a lot of heat on themselves and invariably the guy that shot the tuna in the first place!
Better to be on the well prepared imo... even if unnecessary...
We are governed by the laws and jurisdictions of the United Kingdom...they state : -
http://archive.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/fisheries/documents/fisheries/minimumfishsizes.pdf
Its legal in the UK at 15.87kg and still is.
Should DEFRA need to update their legislation to better reflect EU framework then so they may but this is not yet government gazetted.
The Southern Sea Fisheries state it was legal.
The anglers have been trying to get a black and white response for catch and release but its not getting anywhere. The reason is because any response would need a huge dose of common sense!
The WWF state
The Atlantic bluefin tuna is a large migratory fish found in the western and eastern Atlantic and the Mediterranean Sea. This species is at serious risk of extinction if unsustainable fishing practices in the Mediterranean are not stopped.
Do any UK spearos truly believe you might upset that policy?!?!
The bluefin species has been stuffed by the very EU commercial fishing countries that always wish to hound down the recreational.
Who remembers the last EU piece to 'ban spearfishing'? The one Kevin Mannall, the BSA and myself pushed hard out there and everywhere using every means at our disposal.
Everyone came together as one unit and sorted it directly gaining response from Mr Borg in Brussels.
Lets keep some context here. We have nothing to do with the knock the bluefin has taken overall and WE NEVER WILL!!!!
None of us should ever lie down and shoulder the guilt for the raping of the bluefin spawning grounds in the Med or depletion of tuna because we quite simply are less than insignificant!
I am not shouldering ANY guilt for the taking of a bluefin tuna and never will.
Any spearo who is linked to me by virtue of spear association that has been traumatised by my action should possibly sit down and have a camomile tea!
The UK tuna was a VERY rare catch but NOT a rare visitor.
They migrate constantly in their cycle from the Med, north, past the western approaches and further towards Shetland.
England is not Tuna HQ in the Atlantic! We are a complete insignificance with regards to Bluefin so why now all the Bluefin experts inferring we need to take to the forefront of bluefin responsibility?
How many bluefin have been caught and landed in the UK in recent years?
How much is being wasted trying to get to the bottom of whether it was legal or not.
Lets all have a big jug of man the hell up!
I am amazed at the amount of padding people can put in to trawl up all sorts of matter they can possibly get their hands on. Probably in all honesty doing MORE damage by creating a duty for the authorities to respond!
The question is often asked how come the Europeans just do what they do?
Well they are more interested in getting on and living a long and fruitful life. I think they tend not to display holier than thou attitudes therefore the cancer of over intelligent arrogance and finger pointing does not rot their collective bonds.
BY THIS I do NOT mean stick our UK heads in the sand and ignore the bluefin plight, but what about putting the efforts towards work where it DOES make a difference.
Case in point...Those trawler captains are not sitting behind keyboards, pouring over EU legislation documents, knees knocking, shitting themself that they killed one bluefin off the spawning coast of Libya while the UK spends millions propping up the new Libya, who have actually openly allowed those boats access to their unregulated waters.
Legislation will come...sea anglers, spearos and scuba gatherers, and I am sorry it is not already here by way of licences and bag limits much like other places in the world actively ploughing the funds back into their marine reserves for the long term benefits. This should be measured and in proportion to better regulation of the commercial stakeholders.
What an amazing fish I have caught as a spearfisherman in the UK. All spearos should give it the respect it deserves and genuinely appreciate it for what it was and still is as its highly unlikely to happen again for a long while as it was just right place, right time and could have been any one of us including the anglers or those of us who are anglers!
...if a tree falls in a forest with no one to hear it, does it make a sound?
http://archive.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/fisheries/documents/fisheries/minimumfishsizes.pdf
Its legal in the UK at 15.87kg and still is.
Should DEFRA need to update their legislation to better reflect EU framework then so they may but this is not yet government gazetted.
The Southern Sea Fisheries state it was legal.
The anglers have been trying to get a black and white response for catch and release but its not getting anywhere. The reason is because any response would need a huge dose of common sense!
The WWF state
The Atlantic bluefin tuna is a large migratory fish found in the western and eastern Atlantic and the Mediterranean Sea. This species is at serious risk of extinction if unsustainable fishing practices in the Mediterranean are not stopped.
Do any UK spearos truly believe you might upset that policy?!?!
The bluefin species has been stuffed by the very EU commercial fishing countries that always wish to hound down the recreational.
Who remembers the last EU piece to 'ban spearfishing'? The one Kevin Mannall, the BSA and myself pushed hard out there and everywhere using every means at our disposal.
Everyone came together as one unit and sorted it directly gaining response from Mr Borg in Brussels.
Lets keep some context here. We have nothing to do with the knock the bluefin has taken overall and WE NEVER WILL!!!!
None of us should ever lie down and shoulder the guilt for the raping of the bluefin spawning grounds in the Med or depletion of tuna because we quite simply are less than insignificant!
I am not shouldering ANY guilt for the taking of a bluefin tuna and never will.
Any spearo who is linked to me by virtue of spear association that has been traumatised by my action should possibly sit down and have a camomile tea!
The UK tuna was a VERY rare catch but NOT a rare visitor.
They migrate constantly in their cycle from the Med, north, past the western approaches and further towards Shetland.
England is not Tuna HQ in the Atlantic! We are a complete insignificance with regards to Bluefin so why now all the Bluefin experts inferring we need to take to the forefront of bluefin responsibility?
How many bluefin have been caught and landed in the UK in recent years?
How much is being wasted trying to get to the bottom of whether it was legal or not.
Lets all have a big jug of man the hell up!
I am amazed at the amount of padding people can put in to trawl up all sorts of matter they can possibly get their hands on. Probably in all honesty doing MORE damage by creating a duty for the authorities to respond!
The question is often asked how come the Europeans just do what they do?
Well they are more interested in getting on and living a long and fruitful life. I think they tend not to display holier than thou attitudes therefore the cancer of over intelligent arrogance and finger pointing does not rot their collective bonds.
BY THIS I do NOT mean stick our UK heads in the sand and ignore the bluefin plight, but what about putting the efforts towards work where it DOES make a difference.
Case in point...Those trawler captains are not sitting behind keyboards, pouring over EU legislation documents, knees knocking, shitting themself that they killed one bluefin off the spawning coast of Libya while the UK spends millions propping up the new Libya, who have actually openly allowed those boats access to their unregulated waters.
Legislation will come...sea anglers, spearos and scuba gatherers, and I am sorry it is not already here by way of licences and bag limits much like other places in the world actively ploughing the funds back into their marine reserves for the long term benefits. This should be measured and in proportion to better regulation of the commercial stakeholders.
What an amazing fish I have caught as a spearfisherman in the UK. All spearos should give it the respect it deserves and genuinely appreciate it for what it was and still is as its highly unlikely to happen again for a long while as it was just right place, right time and could have been any one of us including the anglers or those of us who are anglers!
...if a tree falls in a forest with no one to hear it, does it make a sound?
Well at the very least you already seem very prepared rofl
I'd hate to be the one to take you on :martial
O
octopus
Guest
Let's keep it simple.
This pretty much sums it up as far as legality goes:
All these people on the other forums quoting EU laws are just confusing the issue.
There is no need to try to make something look illegal just because we feel emotionally strongly about it.
I would find it very funny (but perhaps Dave would not rofl), if goverment prosecutor said:
"You are guilty of blue fin catch. It clearly says in EU regulation it is illegal to do so. The very same regulation that we failed to implement in our UK laws. You should have looked it up, as we are far too busy fiddling our expensses."
This pretty much sums it up as far as legality goes:
All these people on the other forums quoting EU laws are just confusing the issue.
There is no need to try to make something look illegal just because we feel emotionally strongly about it.
I would find it very funny (but perhaps Dave would not rofl), if goverment prosecutor said:
"You are guilty of blue fin catch. It clearly says in EU regulation it is illegal to do so. The very same regulation that we failed to implement in our UK laws. You should have looked it up, as we are far too busy fiddling our expensses."
Fantastic reply, SurfinSpear.
It's always nice to see someone inject the common sense of "we are not the problem" into the heart of the issue.
I'd say it was like leaving a tap running/leaking at full flow 24/7 and then someone complaining about wasting water when you stuck a glass under it to take a drink.
Good catch, good defence.
It's always nice to see someone inject the common sense of "we are not the problem" into the heart of the issue.
I'd say it was like leaving a tap running/leaking at full flow 24/7 and then someone complaining about wasting water when you stuck a glass under it to take a drink.
Good catch, good defence.
Does anyone know of anyone who has been prosecuted for illegally spearing any fish in sea water or estuaries around the UK ,there are many rules i know that are principally aimed at commercial /licensed fishermen but i cannot ever remember hearing of a recreational angler (spearos included) being prosecuted for failing to abide by such things as MLS for example ,and it would really not be in the public interest to take such cases to court ,but the way the law sometimes appears to work i would not be surprised!!