UK gun choice question

[Mr. X]

Interesting post Dave. Lots of insights. I'd never heard of the reverse grip technique before; it sounded impractical but I just tried it with my speargun and I see what you mean. Excellent.

I have a 75cm gun with a spear that comes a 6-8 inches from the muzzle, which as far as i can tell is the norm.

I have seen guns with the spear that pretty much ends AT the muzzle with the barb held within the gun. Is this a good thing/bad thing?

Yes, I think 40cm overhang is normal for a band-powered gun (perhaps slightly less for a shorter gun & slightly more for a longer gun, but usually 40cm). The idea is (at least partially) to offset a natural tendency for the spear to droop down in the middle, between the rear end support & muzzle. Interestingly though, railguns, which support the spear along the entire muzzle use the same overhang length. This might partially tradition and so that folk moving to and from rail-less spearguns don't notice much difference when it comes to aiming. I did ask Rob Allen whether using a shorter spear would cause any problems and he reckoned going 10cm shorter should not be a problem but he recommended not going any shorter. I don't know the reason why though - perhaps the reasons mentioned above? Or perhaps it gives you some of the benefits of a gun 40cm longer without many of the disadvantages? I thought it might be interesting to use a spear with little or no overhang - so the overall length of a 90cm railgun would be that of say a 60cm speargun. It might be more versatile - although the 90cm barrel would still drag.

I wonder what guns you saw that did not overhang - pneumatics or short trident head cave guns with a thick spear perhaps?

OMD, I usually aim along the side of the spear gun - as I read the Len Jones book when I first started (the idea being that vertical accuracy is more important as fish are long & thin). I don't aim real carefully though, I just use it as a rough guide - with the long barrel & an extended arm it works reasonably well.

 

[spaghetti]

From what i read on DB, the Omer XXV Gold 90cm and the Seatec Gabbiano 90cm seem to be the most popular spearguns among UK spearfishers. And all I can say is: both great choices. Very different one from the other, for me they are the best euro spearguns in the intermediate price range.
Seatec Gabbiano: more accurate, more solid, better balanced.
Omer XXV Gold: more manouverable, more hi-tech, more customizable.
Strangely, none of the two is available in the U.S. of America. Maybe that's why americans use mid-handles...:t

 

[strangelove]

Spaghetti

About the omer gold XXV, the explanation I've heard from Omer was that the gun would not handle multiple bands so they rather not have it available. I was planning on getting one for Brazil.

Any way I just got my HF110, good looking gun but I did notice a few problems with it.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Pastor saw me post this photo on another board and asked me to post it here.

It was scanned from Blue Water Hunting and Freediving by Terry Maas, and I posted it to show the way I carry my mid handle gun so that I can extend it toward the fish rather than swing it. The gun shown in the photo is a big tuna gun, but with my hybrids the tip is right next to my head and I don't need to use the left hand to support the gun.

I haven't even read this thread, so I don't know why he asked me to post the photo, but here it is for him to use to make whatever point he wants to make.

 

[Pastor]

Cheers Bill, it was to illustrate that mid handled guns (even monsters like that) can be used inverted under the body just as easily as with a smaller eurogun, as well as being just as easy to extend forward and be brought back under the body again.

I still think it's a shame that we don't have the choice over here. It would interesting to see a Euro mid handle evolve alongside the rear handle in the UK. I'd bet on them being favoured by more than 25% of the spearos here if they had of been.

 

[Mr. X]

It would interesting to see what a company like C4 or Omer might come up with for a mid-handle gun with using CAD/CAM, modern materials & techniques.

 

[Pastor]

Have you seen Griswold and Tin Man's carbon effort? I'll get gris to post it, better that way :king

Edit, some pictures

 

[ickledevil]

Interesting thread,
I own a variety of rear handled euro spearguns (see my swap shop thread) which as we all know work in UK conditions, however I have been priviliged enough to use a Riffe Island (I think it was) was rigged with multiple bands and side stocks so a little bulkier than it could have been but my god what a gun! I found it fairly easy to handle, holding it much as the picture earlier, will admit it was in very good vis and the size of the spear combined with the power of the gun meant when you hit a fish (mullet in my case) they just keeled over, like being hit with a sledgehammer! lol. But I found it easy to aim, although I dont usually sight down my barrel/bands but shoot by instinct often at unusual angles. (the force....?) and the extra range was nice without manouvering a 100cm gun plus. I think a mid handled gun would be great for the UK but we would need one designed for the Uk, so streamlined, light, not a 756 caliber spear and not a million bands, I for one would love to try.. and for that fact would buy a gun such as this if only to have another option (and another gun in my arsenal.. lol)
So whos gonna make me one and how much is it gonna cost.
Joe

 

[Pastor]

I think a mid handled gun would be great for the UK but we would need one designed for the Uk, so streamlined, light, not a 756 caliber spear and not a million bands, I for one would love to try.. and for that fact would buy a gun such as this if only to have another option (and another gun in my arsenal.. lol)

Exactly the point I am always clumsily trying to make Joe. Most if not all the guns we use have been developed with modern Mediterranean type fishing in mind (gone are the days of plentiful suicidal groupers). A modern gun designed around UK style hunting could well prove to be popular. There are a few guys using home made mid handled Euros near me at the moment and as far as I know, none of them have any intention of reverting. Imagine A Wong 90cm hybrid with a single 18mm band and a Euro trigger/shaft!

 

[ickledevil]

Yes please.. anyone on here up for some experimenting? Im willing (probably) to pay for a mid handled euro gun, just need to decide the best design and find a builder...

 

[Mr. X]

Very slick Pastor but as you both say, a mid-handle gun designed for the UK would be different, it should be fairly small and quite lightweight. I am thinking something like an 90/100cm Omer XXV with the handle moved forward - very slim, very light.