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Undersee Butt?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

johnnymustard

New Member
Jun 5, 2002
12
0
0
Theres a picture in the blue water book by Terry Mass of a man from Hong Kong who shot a giant makeral and it towed him around for 5 km. Anyways in one of the pictures it shows his speargun. Does the bottom of the gun look like an Undersee handle and butt? Think its homemade? Anyone know if Undersee trigger mechanisms can hold three thick rubbers like on his long gun?
 

icarus pacific

Human-in-training
Nov 7, 2001
2,880
212
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hold the mustard...

Hey there... sorry it took this long to get to this, but I was away from my pretty substantial library of this kind of stuff...

Anyway, I don't believe that the butt of the gun in the picture you're refering to is an Undersee. It appears to be a homemade as does the gun, though you'll admit that the photo doesn't really show it too well.. The handle does look as far as I can tell like an Undersee.

Re: the strength of the Underss units, I've not had any experience with them personally, though a guy I know down in Santa Barabara seems to be pleased with his, and he loads his stuff up like me, that is. ridiculously overloaded, 3-4 5/*" rubbers, shortened. Best I can do for you.

sven
 

johnnymustard

New Member
Jun 5, 2002
12
0
0
i have a home made gun made from the handle/trigger and butt of an undersee woodie 1700. the stock is longer and thicker than the original. is made of two peices of tropical hardwood laminated together and the track is much deeper than the original. the shaft almost sits flush with the top of the stock. the track was cut with a table saw so it is not rounded but square. but the gun shoots very straight. its alittle hard to swing around but it barely kicks and its neutral with the shaft and floats without it. i put two 5/8 rubbers on it first and then added a 9/16 when i saw the trigger had no problem. i will probably now switch the 9/16 to another 5/8. i started hunting the edges of the reef for jacks and other reef fish under 10 pounds with a beuchat a few months ago but since i got this homemade gun ive been getting this urge to go to deeper water and try for something bigger. a couple weeks ago i found a channel with a school of makeral in it so the next day before it got light i was in the water and as soon as i could see i got a nice 15 pound jack and a 20# dogtooth tuna( my 1st tuna and biggest fish so far). now i think i have some kind of illness that makes me dream of spearing marlin and yellowfin evernight and see fish when ever i close my eyes. and spend all my free time on the internet reading about spearguns and spearfishing. i want to say thanks to all of you who post here. ive learned alot from this site. yesterday i got a 10 pound jack using the bubble trick i read about here a few days ago. i saw the jack down at the edge of the drop off but couldnt get it to come to me by grunting and when id move to it it would move away so i let alittle bit of bubbles out of my snorkle and it turned to me right away. i let alittle more out and it swam straight up to me. i was waiting for it to turn sideways before i shot but it came right up and almost touched the tip of my spear ( the beuchat) i shot it straight on. in the side of the face and out the tail. we ate it today baked with a little mayonaise onions and italian dressing smeared all over it.
 

icarus pacific

Human-in-training
Nov 7, 2001
2,880
212
0
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hold the mayo and the mustard

Hey, great to hear of your adventures!
If you get a chance, put a photo up here of your gun as there are a few people that are into spear guns to the point of making their own. Not to be picky but you didn't mention who you were diving with... It's really easy to get drawn up with hunting and diving and all of a sudden the *^#} hits the fan and there you are. Find a buddy, have a float(s) and a plan, then go slay 'em!

Nice stuff.

sven
 

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
72
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Johnny,

Great stuff. You are not the only one dreaming about bigger fishes. This is what wants to make u come back for more.

Dive Safe,
IYA
 

johnnymustard

New Member
Jun 5, 2002
12
0
0
thanks Sven and IYA,

i dive with my brother most of the time. a few months ago, ii ordered 2 beuchats online fro0m a place called sportextreme.com and a couple of spearfishing videos from hanapa'a hawaii and they sent a spearfishing catalog with them and i was hooked. i next ordered terry maas book and last of the blue water hunters by carlos E. and read all i could find on the internet about how to rig spearguns and breakaway lines and floats and floatlines and bungees etc etc etc. finally i flew to hawaii and spent 4 hours in hanapaa asking questions and about two grand buying everything my brother and i would need. i bought a 55 in yokooji hybrid gun too. it looks real nice but the track fell off after only a few uses. i epoxied it back on. i like it but the beuchat is way more accurate. i just ordered a RA railgun since everone talks so highly of them here. a 130 cm double muzzle for 2 16mm bands.
i told myself that is my last spearfishing purchase. ill be paying creditcard bills forever.
 

andrsn

Just visiting...
Aug 26, 2001
1,213
75
138
48
j.mstrd, keep us informed of your liking/disliking of the RA. i'm smitten for one soon. :D

andrsn
 

icarus pacific

Human-in-training
Nov 7, 2001
2,880
212
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sorry to hear your Yakooji was junk; it's a really nice piece in my arsenal.

would (wood;) ) somebody please clue me in to all the hype of these RA guns?:confused:

sven
 

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
72
0
Sultan,

Will let you know how the RA in my opinion if I buy it. I guess my comment will be rather different from the rest since I think rather "differently":duh :duh

I tried a Picasso last weekend, I think it is a 90cm model and I can't read the name cause it was more like a signature of some Euro champion on the pistol grip. It is almost all plastic, I think the band is 18mm and not all that tough too load, must be old rubber.

I was wondering if those custom end-plugged rubber ever snap at the muzzle and rocket to my face, what will happen to me.:waterwork . Or if those special U type wishbone ever break when I load the gun, will I have one less finger ? The RA uses line wishbone, much safer.

This Picasso has the Tahiti shaft where the flopper is on top instead below. It sometime stood up when I swing the gun, thus obstructing my aim/view.

My overall impression on this Picasso is ..............feels like a toy gun. I can't comfortably hip load the gun even this short, I must chest load. I guess a 20mm tough new band will kill me.

IYA
 

johnnymustard

New Member
Jun 5, 2002
12
0
0
everyone i know who has used a beuchat has cut their fingers bad by the wishbone. the metal rods that connect the actual wishbone to the rubber are too thin and if you dont pull the bands equally, these thin metal parts slide into the shaft notch instead of the wishbone. youll hear the click and feel it holding and think all is well until a fraction of a second after you let go and that piece of metal slips out and the wishbone flys back into your fingers. its a mistake that you will only make once though.
i bought a spare metal wishbone (not beuchat, but it fit the 20 mm beuchat bands) and it was made with slightly thicker rods to the wishbone so they cant accidently catch in the shaft notch. should get my RA some time this week. will let you know how well it likes fish.
 

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
72
0
John,

You know all these talk on Euro Gun make wants to get hold of Mares Cyrano, pneumatic...something I really am comfortable with...but won't survive more than 2 years with me. The store has one of 85cm at US$200 plus a bit. Should get it in a day or two...... what a waste of money but better than waiting God knows when for a 90cm & 130 cm RA. It sucks living a country with tight custom control. The buying from abroad is not a problem but getting it into the country sucks.

With all the scarry stories , I will not use any gun with metal wishbone... no way. The U shaped Euro wishbone is even scarrier than the typical JBL/Miller " V" wishbone which I had broken many times in the past but God bless me, I never get any severe cut. Any single band Euro "U" wishbone powered by 18 or 20mm cutting my finger is not something I want to experience.

Please do tell of the RA, since you owned a Beuchat, you have something like an apple-to-apple comparison.

Sorry to hear about your Yakooji, it must be one of those bad batch. It is hard to believe your Yakooji is not as accurate as the Beuchat. The way you put it, the Yakooji is NOT accurate. May I bug you for more details on what shooting range are you comparing them at or how the line set up during this test and so on.

Actually I have just acquired a very unique HYBRID in my posession that I have never tell anyone. This unit can literally "sweep" all of the fishes from the ocean floor if handled correctly. I wanted to post the picture but I am afraid Anderson & Sven will laugh at me.


Thanks Again John,
IYA
 

johnnymustard

New Member
Jun 5, 2002
12
0
0
IYA
the yokooji is my prettiest gun but is the one i use the least. maybe its because the track fell off right away that i dont like it as much. my friend has a daryl wong hybrid about the same length. it has some type of material between the pipe and the track which keeps it on tight. the two guns look very similar except the yokooji pipe runs the whole length of the gun right up to the handle. the wong oly to the wooden stock. the yokooji muzzle allows 2 5/8 bands that fit very snug. no way you could fit another band in. i think the wong muzzle is a little bigger could probably hold 3 9/16 rubbers. i guess my yokooji would be very accurate in the right hands but with it i dont hit fish every time. when i shoot i am wondering if i am going to hit or not. with the beuchat i am almost sure when i pull the trigger that i will hit. rarely miss witht the beuchat. olnly problem is with the lighter 6.5 mm shaft and 1 20mm band i get less penetration. some of the thicker tougher skinned fish the shaft stops before the flopper gets in.
 

johnnymustard

New Member
Jun 5, 2002
12
0
0
hawaii skin diver mag euroguns article

has anyone read the article in hawaiiskindiver mag a few issues back where they compared euro guns for accuracy and power and quietness. they compared about 10 different 110 cm euro guns in a pool.
 

icarus pacific

Human-in-training
Nov 7, 2001
2,880
212
0
61
Hey, nobody's laughing here... Yes, I did see that survey of the guns in Hawaii Skin Diver. I was impressed with the way they did it, using my usual way of target practice (the construction fence)and all, but that they shot more than once or twice to get a goos set of numbers was pretty nice. The RA did well I remember, but for the life of me, I don't know what all the hype is for the things.

You ever need to dump the Yakooji, let me know. And fill out your profile.

sven
 

Jay Styron

New Member
Aug 31, 2001
500
48
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54
EURO BANDS/WISHBONES

Just a personal note on the euro band/wishbone setup. I've been shooting them for about 10yrs now and really haven't had a problem that wasn't my own doing. I have had the wishbone slip out of the notch and rake the inside edges of both hands, and not wearing gloves. OOOWWWWW. Both my fault, the gun was new to me and my loading tech. wasn't the best. I didn't ck to make sure the wishbone was centered before I attempted to let go of the bands and lastly I should of been wearing gloves. Since then that hasn't happened again. I did have the screw end crack on my wishbone last month(10yrs old) so I guess it was time. It just seperated and popped loose when I tried to load it. No damage. So I wouldn't shy away from the euro guns because of any extra danger. Just my 2 cents.
Jay
 

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
72
0
Hi Jay,

The info is sure comforting thanks. I only have the chance to extensively use a metal "V" wishbone of the JBL, never more than a few shots with the "U" Euro wishbone. I do have two Euroguns from a friend, been with me for ages but I never use them, so I didn't count it as my guns. One is a Mares and the other is a Techni-Sub both no longer than 100 cm. They are old maybe almost 10 years now, they sure don't look as pretty as the newer guns I see on the net. No one sells Euro here so I never actually get to see new models with my own eyes, always photo only.

I do fear metal wishbone because the JBL type shows no sign at all of when it will break and suddenly it just break, 90% of the time always on the 60* deegrees bend of the "V". I always wear gloves everytime I load a gun, as insurance. I even get a cut from a dacron line wishbone once, I actualy "hook" the wishbone on one of the bulging end of the already loaded band, I though it was the tab, it was a 4th band so it was already rather crowded and I was already tired. The moment I released the band, it naturaly spring back to the muzzle and somehow my second finger was on its way and it tore my glove and made a small cut, wheehhhh lucky me.

If that was a broken "V" mettalic wishbone instead of a "miss-hook", I will get a very severe cut. I mean the danger of solid metal wishbone hurting us is definitely higher than a Dacron line wishbone, we can't deny that. I am not arguing, nope, it was just my my painful experience, never severe just painful. I never had any accident from a slipping metallic "V" wishbone on the JBL because it has quite a long butt so I am always able to see with my eyes where the wishbone hook itself to the shaft notch. I dare not load a gun by feel or sound. The No-Butt Euro gun might be different and must be tougher to load cause vision is limited by the mask and if they use 18 or 20mm rubber, the overall difficulty is sure higher. I can understand if you slip or insert the wishbone inaccurately.

My main fear of mettalic "V" wishbone is that : you can't inspect them for possible "when-it-will-break" .... they just break. This is why I always buy original band completely factory rigged for my ex JBL because the life of the wishbone seems to exceed the rubbers, not always but most of the time. So I tried avoiding possible injury. Been quite succesful at that, but not some of my JBL friends.

I suppose a U shaped Euro wishbone is a better design because it never get squeezed like a JBL type "V" wishbone under loaded condition. It also has two rivets to allow play of direction. But tell me, since a custom Euro bands can be purchased bands only, meaning the wishbone might still be the original one which came with the gun, how do we tell when we need a new wishbone ?
It has to break one day, like any other wishbones, be it Dacron or Metallic. Any tips ?


Thanks
IYA
 

Jay Styron

New Member
Aug 31, 2001
500
48
0
54
Hi Iya,
To answer your last question first. Yes. At least w/ mine thats what I did. I guess as a rule of thumb you could replace them every five years or what ever you feel comfortable w/. The wish bones I use are from esclapez and now omer. Both seem to be pretty well made and heavy duty, I use them on the 20mm bands on my 110's. I haven't heard of any injuries because of the wishbones breaking but I have heard of a few because the wishbone slipped out of the notch. I originally had this problem because I was shooting a 6.5mm shaft and the notches weren't ground deep enough to hold the wishbone reliably. I believe there are two different styles for different size bands, and the heavy duty wishbones were a little too big. So I solved that problem by grinding the notches deeper but then began to break the shafts @ the notch. Solution: I moved up to 7mm shafts-problem solved.
I agree that if a metallic wishbone were to break it could do some real damage. I just personally haven't had any problem w/ them and as you said the engineering is better than the classic V-style. The pivot design is to even out the pull if your bands aren't exactly the same. On my home made gun I use dacron for the wishbones and it works well and you can see the wear as you stated. So after all that I guess go w/ what you feel comfortable w/. I'll shoot Mark L. from Omer an email and see what he has to say.
Jay
 

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
72
0
Thanks A Lot Jay

Euro wishbone info is something I can never get locally, not enough users with extensive experience. Great to add this for my knowledge. Thanks again.

IYA
 

rigdvr

Not Available in Stores
May 28, 2002
1,317
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I had always heard that the yakooji was a step up on quality over the wong(hybrids) but having your track fall off, thats enough to piss off the pope!:confused:
 
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