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Waterways rock!
- Thread starterw3ac
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
no angle
I don’t like the idea that the Waterway bi fins have no bend (angle) from the foot. Every Rodale scuba fin test I have ever read says the fins that are bend so they are more in line with your body, do better. I can only imagine how good they would be if they had this.
Personally I am waiting for the Bat Omer fins.
don
I don’t like the idea that the Waterway bi fins have no bend (angle) from the foot. Every Rodale scuba fin test I have ever read says the fins that are bend so they are more in line with your body, do better. I can only imagine how good they would be if they had this.
Personally I am waiting for the Bat Omer fins.
don
Angle of Fins
The waterway fins are angled in the opposite direction of any other fin. This seems to be in part why the work so well, because like waterway monofins, they are stiffer on the front stroke.
In the end, complaints about technicalities are overshadowed by the real-life performance of the fin. It seems totally wrong to have the fin angled the other way, and the fin looks pretty stupid, but it still beats every bifin I've ever used.
Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
The waterway fins are angled in the opposite direction of any other fin. This seems to be in part why the work so well, because like waterway monofins, they are stiffer on the front stroke.
In the end, complaints about technicalities are overshadowed by the real-life performance of the fin. It seems totally wrong to have the fin angled the other way, and the fin looks pretty stupid, but it still beats every bifin I've ever used.
Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
don't really notice
I haven't really noticed any difference with or without fin angle. My kicking style is still the same. It does make sense that a fin more inline with the body would be more effecient but I don't know if this is possible using fibergalss. According to Peter from WW, they are not able to put a downward angle in the blades. If OMER figured this out, I am pretty sure they won't let the secret out as this could be "an improvement" over previous fiberglass blades and they could use this as an angle to sell more fins. Anyone heard about the price they are thinking about charging for the BAT fin? In any case, the WW powerbaldes still kick some serious butt.
Brad
I haven't really noticed any difference with or without fin angle. My kicking style is still the same. It does make sense that a fin more inline with the body would be more effecient but I don't know if this is possible using fibergalss. According to Peter from WW, they are not able to put a downward angle in the blades. If OMER figured this out, I am pretty sure they won't let the secret out as this could be "an improvement" over previous fiberglass blades and they could use this as an angle to sell more fins. Anyone heard about the price they are thinking about charging for the BAT fin? In any case, the WW powerbaldes still kick some serious butt.
Brad
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Brad: The first time I noticed the importance of the angle (for me) was when I used my first freedivingfins Cressi Gara2000. The Gara's was straight and without angle and my old Mares scubafins outperformed the freedivingfins I had been thinking big thoughts about.:waterwork
I have very stiff feets and that is probably the reason for my problems.
When I later used C4-F80 and Imersion fins with a 15-20 degree angle I got a huge increase in performance.
Both C4 and SEBAK makes angled composite fins!
My friend who is a composite specialist can make any form or angle on a blade and that is very good for me!
He also can work with rubber resulting in footpockets of any form.
I have very stiff feets and that is probably the reason for my problems.
When I later used C4-F80 and Imersion fins with a 15-20 degree angle I got a huge increase in performance.
Both C4 and SEBAK makes angled composite fins!
My friend who is a composite specialist can make any form or angle on a blade and that is very good for me!
He also can work with rubber resulting in footpockets of any form.
My limited experience of fins consists of PICASSO BLACK TEAM and Omer Millennium Competition. I only purchased the Omers. Because I dropped one of the Picasso’s in blue water. The Picasso have more angle than the Omer and I like them a little better. The Omers are stiffer and accelerate better, but the Picasso’s seem more efficient and my dynamic distances were better with them. I wish Picasso had a fiberglass fin.
don
don
foot angle for seabak fins
Speaking of foot angle, I read this about sebakfins fiberglass fins: “Stereofins Pro have an angle in front of the blade, which helps you to increase the efficiency of your kicking technique”. I don’t know if this is the reverse angle Eric F. is talking about in Waterway fins, but from the look of the picture it looks like the standard angle to inline the fin with the body.
Anyone ever tried this fins? I think I might accidentally loose another fin in blue water so I have an excuse to buy them. Only problem is, I need the Omer foot pockets.
Honey, the fin came off the foot pocket and sunk before I could get it! Must have been loose screws!
don
http://www.sebakfins.net
Speaking of foot angle, I read this about sebakfins fiberglass fins: “Stereofins Pro have an angle in front of the blade, which helps you to increase the efficiency of your kicking technique”. I don’t know if this is the reverse angle Eric F. is talking about in Waterway fins, but from the look of the picture it looks like the standard angle to inline the fin with the body.
Anyone ever tried this fins? I think I might accidentally loose another fin in blue water so I have an excuse to buy them. Only problem is, I need the Omer foot pockets.
Honey, the fin came off the foot pocket and sunk before I could get it! Must have been loose screws!
donhttp://www.sebakfins.net
Thanks Peter,
Can you get me a good price on a demo pair? Just kidding!
On the Waterway fin angle being opposite of inline, like Eric F was mentioning, I was wondering if the reason this angle works so well with mono fins is because in mono fin technique the knees bend some. This would put the fin more inline with the body. For stereo fins though, using the hips, with as straight as knees as possible, is the preferred technique.
I also speculate that some of the reason a mono fin provide greater thrust with less effort, is because more muscles are used (quads, hamstrings, and buttock) thus less fatigue and greater strength. But I am stereo guy, at least for now.
don
Can you get me a good price on a demo pair? Just kidding!
On the Waterway fin angle being opposite of inline, like Eric F was mentioning, I was wondering if the reason this angle works so well with mono fins is because in mono fin technique the knees bend some. This would put the fin more inline with the body. For stereo fins though, using the hips, with as straight as knees as possible, is the preferred technique.
I also speculate that some of the reason a mono fin provide greater thrust with less effort, is because more muscles are used (quads, hamstrings, and buttock) thus less fatigue and greater strength. But I am stereo guy, at least for now.
don
Don:
About bending knees:
The best tech for finswimming is with almost straight knees. For freediving I'm not shure that exactly the same tech. as for finswimming is to prefer but I belive that bending the knees too much are not good.
About angle and Waterways nice fins:
Many russian finswimmers can bend their feets almost backwards and that's why they can with an open heel solution use these straight fins. Waterways blades do not have an angle but the whole blade is curved upwards wich makes it harder on the downkick and this fins work, as Eric mentioned, very very good for many people!
For people like me with very stiff feets it's hard to use a fin like these because we have to bend our knees very very much to put the blade in a position for it to work.
Right now I use a SEBAK mono with OMER pockets and an angle and this is the fin that right now works best for me. (Of the fins that are available on the market.)
I have used Waterway LD, MD and Sprint, Mat-Mas KSP12 Composite, Breier "Vertical apnea" carbon, Chineese sprint blade, SEBAK "teppo", "Peter", "Karmo" and a new proto and some own developed fins.
The monofins will develop fast in the near future adn I belive it can be wise to wait with buying a mono if you are not in a hurry.
Monofins vs Bifins, SEBAK's bifins:
I have no experience of SEBAK's bifins and I have bifins that I like but I think that mono's provide a better performance when the right tech. is learned. (which takes a lot of training).
About bending knees:
The best tech for finswimming is with almost straight knees. For freediving I'm not shure that exactly the same tech. as for finswimming is to prefer but I belive that bending the knees too much are not good.
About angle and Waterways nice fins:
Many russian finswimmers can bend their feets almost backwards and that's why they can with an open heel solution use these straight fins. Waterways blades do not have an angle but the whole blade is curved upwards wich makes it harder on the downkick and this fins work, as Eric mentioned, very very good for many people!
For people like me with very stiff feets it's hard to use a fin like these because we have to bend our knees very very much to put the blade in a position for it to work.
Right now I use a SEBAK mono with OMER pockets and an angle and this is the fin that right now works best for me. (Of the fins that are available on the market.)
I have used Waterway LD, MD and Sprint, Mat-Mas KSP12 Composite, Breier "Vertical apnea" carbon, Chineese sprint blade, SEBAK "teppo", "Peter", "Karmo" and a new proto and some own developed fins.
The monofins will develop fast in the near future adn I belive it can be wise to wait with buying a mono if you are not in a hurry.
Monofins vs Bifins, SEBAK's bifins:
I have no experience of SEBAK's bifins and I have bifins that I like but I think that mono's provide a better performance when the right tech. is learned. (which takes a lot of training).
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Just thought I'd stick a note in here: I tried the Waterways open-heel foot pocket and it just about killed my feet. I think Eric and Peter have some kind of "man-of-steel super feet", but for me its just foot cramp hell. I do have the fibre blades in SporaSub pockets, however, and despite a considerably number of zip ties and an even more home-made look they work really well.
I read your posts and i wondered a lot. Are these fins good fro spearing? I mean are they comfortable enough to swim 4-5 hours? Are they durable enough to hunt around rocks? the last thing that you have to in your mind is your fins position when concentrated on fish . What is the relationship waterways and sebak? any link about waterways (homepage)?
I think i saw Bat fin's price somewhere but can't remmember where:duh
. What is the relationship waterways and sebak? any link about waterways (homepage)?I think i saw Bat fin's price somewhere but can't remmember where:duh
spearing OK with mine
I'm using my WW powerblades for spearfishing. I have the #4's and they are a bit too hard I think for what I want (recommend #3) but I will stick with them to toughen myself up.
I swam a 6 hour spearfishing competition here last month and the blades were fine. I dive amongst the wash in the rocks alot, but with the rubber rails and little care, I expect they will last reasonably well. I'm definitely glad to have made the change from my Picasso black plastic blades.
I'm using my WW powerblades for spearfishing. I have the #4's and they are a bit too hard I think for what I want (recommend #3) but I will stick with them to toughen myself up.
I swam a 6 hour spearfishing competition here last month and the blades were fine. I dive amongst the wash in the rocks alot, but with the rubber rails and little care, I expect they will last reasonably well. I'm definitely glad to have made the change from my Picasso black plastic blades.
You guys mentioned the Waterways and the Sebek but haven't heard much about the Matrix fins. Why is that?
They seem identical to the waterways, the company replies faster, and you can order them with the pockets on already. And the price is not that diffrent.
www.20Fathoms.com
I'm kind of leaning towards the Matrix. Sebek's cost is high, plus shipping as well. Waterway doesn't reply to my e-mail, have to screw them myself and after they are made it looks "retro" as somebody said.
What do you guys think??
They seem identical to the waterways, the company replies faster, and you can order them with the pockets on already. And the price is not that diffrent.
www.20Fathoms.com
I'm kind of leaning towards the Matrix. Sebek's cost is high, plus shipping as well. Waterway doesn't reply to my e-mail, have to screw them myself and after they are made it looks "retro" as somebody said.
What do you guys think??
You guys mentioned the Waterways and the Sebek but haven't heard much about the Matrix fins. Why is that?
The Matrix seem identical to the waterways, the people there are awesome, and you can order them with the pockets on already. And the price is not that diffrent.
www.20Fathoms.com
I'm kind of leaning towards the Matrix. Sebek's cost is high, plus shipping as well. Waterway hasn't responded to my e-mail yet, have to screw them myself and after they are made it looks "retro" as somebody said. Also I've heard of people waiting a long time to get them.
What do you guys think??
The Matrix seem identical to the waterways, the people there are awesome, and you can order them with the pockets on already. And the price is not that diffrent.
www.20Fathoms.com
I'm kind of leaning towards the Matrix. Sebek's cost is high, plus shipping as well. Waterway hasn't responded to my e-mail yet, have to screw them myself and after they are made it looks "retro" as somebody said. Also I've heard of people waiting a long time to get them.
What do you guys think??
Peter from waterway has always been very helpful when i have asked him several questions.
The fins that were referred to as retro were the ones that come with an open heel footpocket, which is originally designed for finswimmers, and not spearfishers/freedivers.
I have not tried any of the discussed fins, so I cant help you with that choice. If I were to buy a pair, I would get sebaks (cause they have an angle) or the finswimming bifin from waterway.
Good luck!
The fins that were referred to as retro were the ones that come with an open heel footpocket, which is originally designed for finswimmers, and not spearfishers/freedivers.
I have not tried any of the discussed fins, so I cant help you with that choice. If I were to buy a pair, I would get sebaks (cause they have an angle) or the finswimming bifin from waterway.
Good luck!