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Weight training and free diving.

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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I think that compound free weights are very useful even to a high level diver. Having said that I would do them mostly in the early (foundational) training phase, and decrease them to one session per week in the transition phase and eliminate them in the final 6 weeks of the competition phase.

That is pretty much exactly how I've included strength training to my training program. I've been doing deep squats, deadlifts, bench presses, barbell rows and some additional exercises for 5x5 reps. My idea has been to accumulate necessary base strength without acquiring too much muscle mass and 5x5 is good for that.

Since most of the time I'm having only one or two strength trainings per week, sometimes none, my results are modest, with 140 kg deadlift, 125 kg squat and 75 kg bench press (@ 183 cm, 73 kg). During the last two months my training has been only diving and I've clearly lost lots of muscle. Not that I had it that much in the first place, but still. After I'll retrieve my former travesties of muscles I will just keep the results there or slowly brush them up since I don't think additional pure strength will help me that much with freediving.

Instead, in the near future I'll try doing some longer series to train lactic acid production and muscle endurance, series like 3x20-30, an aspect I hypothesise to directly help my DYN/DNF results. I could be wrong here, but with my knowledge I think it would be best for freedivers to usually avoid doing 3 x 8-12 rep style training, because it causes more hypertrophy but still not lactic acid endurance. I'm with efattah with the fact that free weight (barbell) training is usually much better than machines since they train more muscles at once and you have to balance the weights yourself.

About the general usefulness of strength training for freediving, I would say it's an important part of a balanced training schedule. I don't think freediving is much different from other sports in this aspect. Sport-specific training will only get you so far, at some point it's always more efficient to add different kind of training to your program. For example, javelin throw is only about who can throw the javelin farthest. If you're a beginner, at first your results will get better by just doing specific training and learning the right technique of throwing. Keep training that way and your results will still grow, but slower, as you are just training sport specific muscles. However, after that you will stall, sooner or later, and you will also get other problems, like shoulder injuries and so on. It becomes much more effective (and healthy) to add weight lifting, sprinting and other things to your training instead of just more javeling throwing.

Specific training is the most important sector of your training but it should not be the only one. In freediving you move by using your muscles so it should be clear that better trained muscles do the same work more effectively. On the other hand, of course, too much (or wrong kind) of muscle training and muscle mass will disturb your actual training and impair your results. However, balancing the different sectors well will get you better results than you could ever get by focusing only on one sector. Thus, it should be no surprise that former competitive swimmers like Frédéric Sessa or Dajana Zoretić have quickly risen to the top of the competitive freediving world with quite a short time of actual apnea training. They already had their other sectors of training in good shape.
 
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Trying to combat the lactic fatigue which occurs at the end of dynamic/constant dives, I previously tried lactic muscle exercises at the gym (supersets, high reps, etc.) I also tried power training (5 reps, 3-5 sets).

The power training DRASTICALLY reduced the lactic fatigue on deep dives. The lactic gym sets did not. However the lactic gym sets increased muscle mass. My legs got HUGE, my Orca wetsuit barely fit around my legs. However my legs were just as tired or even more tired on deep dives.

I think the reason is actually pretty obvious. The lactic gym training only trains the muscle to deal with lactic acid. The power training increases the stored energy in the muscle (ATP, creatine). This stored energy helps greatly when blood shift happens and there is not much blood flowing to the muscle. The stored energy prevents the accumulation of lactic acid in the first place.

If you consider a 100m sprinter. The sprinter has enough stored ATP and creatine phosphate to run 100m at maximum speed, which takes 10 seconds. So you can store enough energy in the muscle for 10 seconds of maximum exercise, without any lactic acid buildup. This is actually a huge amount of energy, enough to come up from a 100m dive without lactic acid.

For this reason in my mind the training of a 100m sprinter would be very well suited for freediving. What do they do? Squats, deadlifts, bench, etc....
 
Hey guys some progress on this I think:

So I stuck with my squats deadlifts etc. kept in the power cleans. Diving time has become significantly easier. Also have kept in my 60m sprints twice a week. Everything is working well.

Guys talking about doing lactic sets and high rep compounds need to stop and read up on physiological adaption! What Eric said! I essentially train like a sprinter but with sport specific training on diving. Just started my CO and O tables. Point is: being strong and powerful is more important than endurance.

Thanks for all the responses in this thread!


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For this reason in my mind the training of a 100m sprinter would be very well suited for freediving. What do they do? Squats, deadlifts, bench, etc....

What about the training of a 400m sprinter? I suppose it involves the same aspects as a 100m sprinter, but also the lactic training. Intuitively that would help freediving even more?
 
I think the ideal 'runner' would probably be a 200m or 400m runner. But anyone in the 100m-800m zone would still be a good diver.
 
800m and 1500m wold records are at 1.41 and 3.26 respectively... Does not that mean that top divers should be closer to the 1500m runner profile?
 
800m and 1500m wold records are at 1.41 and 3.26 respectively... Does not that mean that top divers should be closer to the 1500m runner profile?

As Eric said, 800m is kind of the max threshold for this type of training. When you're sprinting, especially in the 100-400m range you actually don't breathe. If you start doing it after a long lay off of it, you may, but everyone realists extremely quickly that breathing makes you slower and gives you far less control. No breath + physical exertion has far more correlation to diving than a 1.5km run
 
No breath + physical exertion has far more correlation to diving than a 1.5km run

agree. the reason in the training doctrine the duration of loading is a "classic" parameter, is that (without breathing restriction :) ) there are correlations of duration of loading and metabolism parameters...
 
800m and 1500m wold records are at 1.41 and 3.26 respectively... Does not that mean that top divers should be closer to the 1500m runner profile?

I don't think so Ari, because you are breathing for the 1500m and the body works aerobically. Freediving is a bit like a slow sprint ie similar effect on the body but takes longer since you are trying to maximise distance.

In my mind too I think of it closer to a 400m race - at the beginning you are working aerobically and then as the oxygen debt builds up the muscles have to work anaerobically.

I am sure that top athletes in 800m would also be good - when you see them do 800m, it's a bit like a constant sprint with a strong finish!
 
... but any form of exercise should surely be of benefit to freediving and better than sitting on your ass on the couch )

actually, i am not that sure.. it may be better to sit on your couch and relax zzz than lift weights or run marathons :martial... for static at least

joking aside, i see your points Jamie and Simo. On the other hand, it seems to me that freediver body types (normally tall and thin) resemble more the body types of the 800-1500m runners than the more muscular body types of the 100-400m runners.
 
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The duration of the race is not relevant, since a runner is generating 2000W of power during the run, whereas a freediver is generating perhaps 200W or less during the swim. So I would say 10 seconds of sprinting is about equal to 100 seconds of monofin swimming.

So, using that relationship, a 4 minute swim (240 seconds), would be equal to 24 seconds of sprinting, or a distance of around 250m. This is very interesting, because my PB for apnea running is 247m (with one turn in the middle).
 
actually, i am not that sure.. it may be better to sit on your couch and relax zzz than lift weights or run marathons :martial... for static at least

joking aside, i see your points Jamie and Simo. On the other hand, it seems to me that freediver body types (normally tall and thin) resemble more the body types of the 800-1500m runners than the more muscular body types of the 100-400m runners.

I haven't met enough top divers in person to judge whether tall and thin is the general body type, but it would make sense anyway because when moving in a dense medium like water it's all about minimising drag - being tall and thin really helps. Also if you'll be thin, you'd better be tall otherwise you won't have big lungs lol (this I made up just now! but the point on long and narrow bodies moving through water with a lot less effort is true)

I also remember reading in the manual of freediving that the ideal freediver's muscle makeup would consist mainly of fast twitch fibre (sprinter) as opposed to slow twitch (long distance runner), which ties in with the above and makes sense (unfortunately for me!)
 
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If you consider a 100m sprinter. The sprinter has enough stored ATP and creatine phosphate to run 100m at maximum speed, which takes 10 seconds. So you can store enough energy in the muscle for 10 seconds of maximum exercise, without any lactic acid buildup. This is actually a huge amount of energy, enough to come up from a 100m dive without lactic acid.
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Eric, I don't think the ATP energetic pattern can last for much more than 10 seconds, independently from the intensity of the efforts you are demanding to your muscles.
For what I know, after the first 9-11 seconds, you shift from an anaerobic alctacid pattern to an anaerobic lactacid pattern and you forcedly start producing lactic acid. However I agree with you about the importance of power training:ko, but I find usefull to alternate power and "endurance" muscle training depending on the periods of the year.
 
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The amount of ATP and creatine phosphate stored in your muscles is not a time dependent variable, it is a fixed amount of energy in Joules. Whether you use this energy quickly or slowly is up to you.

Lactic acid will not be generated if there is still a high concentration of ATP, creatine phosphate or NADH available.

As a proof of this, if you consider an animal such as a fur seal whose muscles are virtually 100% fast twitch. A fast twitch fiber has virtually no oxidative capacity. Yet a fur seal is capable of doing a dive for many minutes and coming up with no lactic acid in the muscles. So where does the energy come from? Fast twitch fibers have no myoglobin, are barely able to consume any oxygen... and not only that but in seals there is nearly no blood flowing to the muscle anyway.

Another example, or experiment, you can do yourself is quite simple. Stop eating carbohydrates entirely, for a week or more. This will completely deplete the glycogen in your muscles. Without any glycogen in your muscles, lactic metabolism becomes impossible. Now the stored energy in your muscle is exclusively due to ATP/CrP/NADH. Now you can do various experiments to test how much stored energy you have in your muscles and how long it lasts you. In order to do this you must restrict the blood flow to the muscle, by high angle isometrics, blood shift, thigh cuff, etc...
 
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Hi guys, new to this forum, keen freediver. Started about 3 years ago, just taught myself after getting sick of heavy scuba equipment. Ive never sought advice to improve until now, but I have a very specific question related to training for free diving.

As a precursor, I train the compounds heavy. (no body building crap). I'm wondering if anyone has any notion of the Olympic lifts with regard to free diving? I regularly train the power clean, and occasionally the squat clean. Split snatch when I'm bored. My theory is that working on hip extension through these lifts and the increase CNS and neuromuscular efficiency will translate directly to a better kick. Just chasing up experience here! Thanks in advance :)


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You should look into kettlebells--they are terrific for building power as opposed to strength, and most of the standard exercises work large muscles groups in your legs, core, and back.

I feel like they have helped my kick. I know for a fact that in the past when I have done traditional squats, I tended to gain mass (and strength without much mobility) in my legs. When I do purely kettlebell training, I notice a definite power gain but very little increase in mass, and I do tend to maintain the strength level I started at (ie like squats for a month, then switch to purely kettlebells). It is difficult to measure power, but I do competitive ring sports and have had some of the same training partners/pad holders for years. They felt the difference in my kicks.

If you pick up kettlebells, try to work with a trainer at first so your technique is correct and you don't hurt yourself.
 
After diving with Kirk Krack in my PFI course I'm going on a beer and little exercise diet. He admittedly isn't in great shape and has a bit of a spare tire. But man, can he fricken' dive.
 
After diving with Kirk Krack in my PFI course I'm going on a beer and little exercise diet. He admittedly isn't in great shape and has a bit of a spare tire. But man, can he fricken' dive.

That's the spirit - beer consumption is directly related to freediving performance. :)

By the way, being unfit doesn't obviously help but my latest theory is that the spare tire might help as neoprene is the source of all evil lol
 
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