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Were people really dying left and right because of underwater swim practice back before bans?

Sorandril

Member
Jun 13, 2020
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Im not looking for anecdotals, im looking for hard data.


Hasnt gone down despite the bans...

300 million -public- pool visits (only thing recordable there’s no accounting for the beach)
3500 deaths
That’s a 10-5 risk

this story does not add up as far as underwater swimming bans go

note that this is different from freediving and boyles law and the Bohr effect don’t factor in thus why I hate this irresponsible parent Milner using SWB as a way to make drowning sound snazzy and make it a buzzword.

And in these rare but media overblown cases something stupid was being done. Just read through it yourself at their site.

but that doesn’t mean that Milner and Griffiths are right especially when they’re not being honest about their figures

they’re trying to say our sport is too dangerous and people should not hold their breath for more than 30 seconds.

that’s why I’m looking for real statistics and real information but all I get are scare sites and hit pieces.
 
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Sorandril

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Jun 13, 2020
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I want to underline here that I am being a skeptic not a denialist.

I was taught not to hyperventilate by my father, never ignore the urge to breathe, and also one up one down... not commonly taught 4 decades ago, certainly not at our neighborhood pool

however we are under attack here by people using distorted statistics and fear because someone did something stupid/had a rare genetic problem. Milners son swam alone and tested limits alone- doubly stupid. But that doesn’t mean underwater swimming in general is Russian roulette.

the solution is real education like I was given not bans and misinformation from people on the religious right who as usual abhor bathing and the body and as usual use “think of the children” as a clarion call to fascism.
 

Sorandril

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Jun 13, 2020
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On the other hand can we open source the FRV? Waterproof a raspberry pi or something? It would help if we could get that down to like 250. Maybe it’ll save lives and make these people happy.
 

Sorandril

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Jun 13, 2020
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Finally, the part I’m not getting is...except in cases of hyperventilating the lack of urge to breathe or warning when pressure changes are not involved. Unless more people are like cdavis’s friend than I think. It seems from what I’ve been reading people are ignoring the urge and yes that is dangerous.

I also get, thanks to you guys and research, that indeed I am some sort of dolphin. I’m just having trouble finding the data that led to this hysteria, and they aren’t very forthcoming with anything but testimonials.
 

Sorandril

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Jun 13, 2020
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What I’m having most trouble scientifically comprehending here is the no warning thing. Really? There was no urge to breathe at all? No fatigue? Nothing?
 

hteas

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2005
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The problem has been around for a long time. Someone does something dangerous and dies. Before the internet it was only a local issue. Now it's everywhere. With so much of the world living on fear, I "fear" that it will get worse.

better would be more education, starting with lifeguard training. It might not help much, but would at least be a positive step.
 

Sorandril

Member
Jun 13, 2020
111
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The problem has been around for a long time. Someone does something dangerous and dies. Before the internet it was only a local issue. Now it's everywhere. With so much of the world living on fear, I "fear" that it will get worse.

better would be more education, starting with lifeguard training. It might not help much, but would at least be a positive step.

Im sorry for my frustration.

I actually had to do the math and research on causes of drowning per year to get past the legal fiction and media hoopla. Ended up with figures in line with snorkeling deaths after excluding adult medical problems. About 1 in 1 million.

Ive observed "snorkeling" all my life, aka people occasionally being amateur freedivers in the 10m range with large surface intervals. We generally call that "summer in Florida".

My friend quit being a swim coach because of Milner and having to tell people daily "no, teaching your child does not put them at more risk" among other myths that dont exist in other countries. I consulted with a Swedish colleague, where the final exam in swimming consists in part of a 50m dive. He thinks this is a legal fiction because if anyone would be most concerned about aquatics safety it would be the Nordic countries - thats why their extensive swimming programs, cold water and everything, and for some reason this is not a huge concern there as it is at our local pools that ban us.

I bet unlike here in America, the lifeguards are competent and not just liability sponges, and that they also actually teach the kids something over there.
 
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Sorandril

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Jun 13, 2020
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Im not against safety, but things have become ridiculous.

We now officially have a whole generation afraid to put their heads underwater, with no supporting evidence, just one sick puppy who probably did this because she couldnt cash in on her sons life insurance. My second guess is a pathological lack of responsibility.

Edit to note that i dont know how its possible for US aquatics to be in a dumpster fire state. Maybe they drained the pool during the pandemic.
 
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Sorandril

Member
Jun 13, 2020
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PS, for something that would give us and these people both nightmares, go to Hooper, CO and the Sand Dunes pool.

95 degree water, they rent fins and they go on underwater as usual at 7500 feet.

And if anyone wonders why im doing all this...

Imagine these fear mongers telling you that you could have cut out and died from total cardiac arrest at any time during your childhood outings to the river and triggering a whole summer worth of arguments with your father over it, who believes it is rare.

Because of this legal fiction and exaggeration of actual risks, we now have a whole generation (Z) afraid to put their heads underwater at all that also believe people drowned left and right on the swim team back in the day. Among other fictions they believe about the past.

With no evidence, just a mother in need of serious therapy and the worlds dumbest swimming champion.

and pieces like this:


Gotta love the "Say their name" propaganda garbage.

in the comments:

"We probably shouldn’t have sent you down to the bottom of Watermelon Cay at St. John to get that starfish either. But you could hold your breath longer than anyone. Blame it on dad. love, mom"

Thats only 15-20 feet and theyre telling us we should be scared of that. If its even real. Something smells about this hit piece. Ive replied to this nonsense.

If we dont do something this sport will die out in 20 years.
 
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Sorandril

Member
Jun 13, 2020
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Oh yes, and in my research at one point when gauging the Hawaiians response to it, one of the Hawaiians told me that the North Shore's best pulmonologist recommended that to prevent drowning i should hold in each bong hit as long as possible, and that under no circumstances should i attempt to take any bong hits underwater :p

Surfers :p
 
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