wetsuit question

[kirkerik]

so an "open cell" neoprene wetsuit just means it has all those tiny bubbles for warmth and buoyancy? Or the suits decribed as lined outside open cell inside means the cells are exposed to the skin on the inside?

what does the term "opencell" mean in a wetsuit?

I just want to be clear so i know what i'm getting.

thank you

 

[azapa]

s the suits decribed as lined outside open cell inside means the cells are exposed to the skin on the inside?
thank you

yes, thats about right. The "naked" neoprene sticks too your skin very closely and keeps warmth there. A lined suit tends to wick cold water around where you don't want it.

The lining also can restrict movement. A slick suit in and out is very warm, flexible and hydrodynamic. About the only drawback is durability. You can literally pull chunks of them or put your hand though them when putting on/taking off.

 

[kirkerik]

yes, thats about right. The "naked" neoprene sticks too your skin very closely and keeps warmth there. A lined suit tends to wick cold water around where you don't want it.

The lining also can restrict movement. A slick suit in and out is very warm, flexible and hydrodynamic. About the only drawback is durability. You can literally pull chunks of them or put your hand though them when putting on/taking off.

Thanks azapa,

If one were to look close at the "naked" neoprene, you would see a textured surface w/ lots of little bubbles exposed? Is that right?

Or is it that "slick" and "naked" neoprene are the same, the surface being smooth?

Chunks! Wow i'll have to be careful w/ a fully slick suit!

 

[azapa]

there are two basic non-lined neoprenes used for suit INSIDES: slick (smooth) sometimes with a slippy coating or Titanium coating (supposed to be) for warmth, and true open cell, in which the rough, bubbly interior surface, or porous surface, is towards your skin. In Spanish we call the latter "chicle" or chewing gum, kinda sums up what they feel like when trying to put on dry!!

You need to use tons of hair conditioner + water mix to put on and take off, or put them on in the water. There are whole threads on that subject here on DB.

 

[kirkerik]

hey Thanks again for your time and knowledge! I appreciate being able to chat and ask questions w/ experienced freedivers.

I'll be sure to check out how to get on and off before i buy. I did want a suit that would be easy to don but i keep hearing that a two piece hooded 5mm may be just the ticket for freediving in my area. I guess we can't always have it both ways... If it gives me more downtime, that's great!

 

[Chris_C_NZ]

Seriously mate, I'd go for a lined wetsuit for the effort and ache you'll go to trying to put an open cell suit on. For any loss of heat, you just make up with a thicker suit..

I play freediver in my 5mm lined suit with no problem at all. And you only get cold water ingress where you'd expect it (i.e. around the zip) anyway.

 

[Mullins]

Open cell suits are far better for freediving, Chris. You'd need to add a lot of neoprene to make up for the difference in warmth. That means a lot more buoyancy change, plus the flexibility of lined suits is awful by comparison even at the same thickness. Putting an open cell suit on is easy, just avoid using fingernails.

 

[Fondueset]

I'm with Mullins - particularly in your area. You want open cell on the inside. You'll need lube to get it on - but it's way worth it. SO MUCH WARMER!! I dive year-round in a 5 mil here in Northern Michigan. (of course I swim harder in the winter ) Seriously - open cell suits are like a layer of fat - fabric linings reduce warmth by a huge percentage.
For a first suit - get open cell in, nylon out.

Nylon lining is why Chris needs 5 mil in New Zealand - here I dive down to 64F in a 3 mil.

 

[freedivinmike]

I echo the need for open cell in your area. It is very easy to put on with lube it just slides right on and off. And yes, get nylon on the outside for your first suit as you will not take chunks out of that putting it on but you very well might with a slip of the fingernails with smooth outside.

 

[kirkerik]

Seriously mate, I'd go for a lined wetsuit for the effort and ache you'll go to trying to put an open cell suit on. For any loss of heat, you just make up with a thicker suit..

I play freediver in my 5mm lined suit with no problem at all. And you only get cold water ingress where you'd expect it (i.e. around the zip) anyway.

Thanks chris, i hear ya. it's nice not to have to fight it but i do like to be warm.

 

[kirkerik]

I echo the need for open cell in your area. It is very easy to put on with lube it just slides right on and off. And yes, get nylon on the outside for your first suit as you will not take chunks out of that putting it on but you very well might with a slip of the fingernails with smooth outside.

tHat's good to hear! would the freedive oceanos be good? i think it has a nylon lining though?

 

[kirkerik]

here is the link: oceanos

 

[kirkerik]

Open cell suits are far better for freediving, Chris. You'd need to add a lot of neoprene to make up for the difference in warmth. That means a lot more buoyancy change, plus the flexibility of lined suits is awful by comparison even at the same thickness. Putting an open cell suit on is easy, just avoid using fingernails.

great to hear Mullins, Thanks.

I'm with Mullins - particularly in your area. You want open cell on the inside. You'll need lube to get it on - but it's way worth it. SO MUCH WARMER!! I dive year-round in a 5 mil here in Northern Michigan. (of course I swim harder in the winter ) Seriously - open cell suits are like a layer of fat - fabric linings reduce warmth by a huge percentage.
For a first suit - get open cell in, nylon out.

Nylon lining is why Chris needs 5 mil in New Zealand - here I dive down to 64F in a 3 mil.

So, does that mean for late spring to early fall in my area, i could use a 3mm if open cell inside?

Thanks guys, i appreciate it.

kirk

 

[freedivinmike]

Yes, I know a couple people who have those suits and they are very happy with them and use them a lot. Do not get that "black seal" one because it is nylon inside. One of the spearfishing ones will be fine. Get it in the 5mm or you will regret not doing that.

 

[kirkerik]

Of the slick and the open cell - is one warmer?

I'm leaning towards slick cause i would imagine it's easier to keep clean?

Thanks this is great info. I'm on a budget so it helps to get what works the first time.

 

[kirkerik]

Yes, I know a couple people who have those suits and they are very happy with them and use them a lot. Do not get that "black seal" one because it is nylon inside. One of the spearfishing ones will be fine. Get it in the 5mm or you will regret not doing that.

Thanks freedivinmike!

 

[foxfish]

Spiros from Diveskin will make you any combination of materials in his custom made suits & the service is second to none.

Ref the suits lining - smooth or nylon lined...

It would seem free divers in particular prefer the smooth skin but more & more spearos are tuning toward the nylon interior.

It depends on several things, personal preferences & circumstances but, I can tell you that a custom fit, nylon lined suit with seals at the ankles, wrists & face is a very warm suit.

I can speak from experience, I have owned quite a few suits over the last 40 years!

I went with the flow for the last 10 years & have been wearing smooth skin interior 5mm suits but for me the the ease of donning & the extra durability of the nylon lined suit easily outweighs the minimal extra warmth of a smooth skin.
However it is fair to point out that I dont dive freezing water but temps in the 11 - 16c range.
I can see how folk could judge against "off the peg scuba suits V smooth skin free diving suits" but a custom fit, sealed & lined Diveskin suit is not a bad option - they last about twice as long too!!

 

[kirkerik]

hey Thanks Foxfish. That's helpful information.

Hmmmmm... now back to the drawing board... ha ha

i can see your point - nylon lining w/ sealed seams, ankles, wrists and neck keeping water out makes sense to me. Durability lasting twice as long for the lining is saying something! Is that inside and outside nylon lining?

I can also see the other side - slick inside = more warmth. How much more warmth for the extra lube process? It's more flexible too, right?

it's relative. I'm new at this. I probably can not go wrong either way.

Thanks everyone!

 

[kirkerik]

Is a nylon lined suit that much easier to don?

 

[Chris_C_NZ]

Depends how much lube you use on an open cell to compare.

Seriously, a nylon suit, is a 2 minute, 1 person job. Open cell can be just as easy..if you use enough lube.