What do you shoot and why...

[Padaxes]

Spearfishing for me is a bit of an ethical issue. I'm pretty anti commercial fishing, I can't stand the attitude of thoughtless greed involved in the industry and the wasteful bureaucracy surrounding it.

I'm vegetarian apart from fish, and even then I get a bit fussy about what I shoot. I guess it boils down to what I'm happy with. It's a bit vague and only loosely based in science I'm comfortable killing fish on the whole because they seem to be to be less capable of .... higher order thought processes. Their nervous system is more primitive and I really have trouble empathizing with them.

I can perceive suffering in , say a cow. But I've gut shot a fish before and found it later on swimming along with the rest of the shoal, with its entrails hanging out acting as if nothing was wrong. I've no doubt they feel pain, but I'm not sure they feel the sort of emotional distress higher animals feel. their brain size is very small compared to other vertebrates and obviously the scientific evidence of their ability to consciously appreciate this sort of stimulus is divided.

Still I make it a point to kill them as quickly and humanely as possible.

This does mean though that I find myself unable to kill Cuttlefish and Octopus, their advanced nervous system and problem solving skills put them out of my comfort zone. Plus I just love them, amazing creatures.

If I encounter something I haven't seen before I don't shoot it either I go home and study it first. As a result I've never taken a Conger because as i understand it they are extremely slow to mature and only breed once in their lifetime. Not to mention the hassle preparing them.

What are your spearing ethics and why ?

 

[mrhogan]

Very interesting post Padaxes, I spear fish to eat, nothing more! I do have concerns when looking through some people videos on YouTube, I have seen plenty of people be really pleased about spearing Wrasse, probably the most inedible fish in our seas and very very slow growing! I went for a dive yesterday on the south coast, I saw loads of different species but nothing that I was interested in eating. I saw a bull Huss about four feet long slowly meandering through rocks and seaweed, it's not my business to shoot an animal like that. Also cuttlefish a plenty. I know they are very good to eat but I am after fish not Cephalopoda! I think some people that go spearfishing are sometimes more interested in the prize and excitement of dispatching a creature than eating it, correct me if I am wrong but that's just an observation. Quickly and humanely dispatching your quarry is something that some probably fail to understand, look at nature, a lioness will despatch and consume an animal very quickly for its pride. I spear because I enjoy the dive and I am hungry!!

 

[Broseidon]

That's really interesting - I'm also vegetarian apart from fish. My reasoning is, as yours, that I cannot empathize with a fish. They do not display the obvious emotions, feelings and personality traits that mammals and birds (to a lesser extent) display.

While I feel a bit bad about valuing one life over another, I personally attribute moral worth based on inherent emotional complexity. I don't want to go all PETA here but I don't like the fact that we generally tend to value 'cute and cuddly' over intelligence. Pigs for example, are more intelligent that cats, dogs and even most primates yet they make up a staple of our modern diet.

People these days are so far removed from where food comes from - everything just arrives in a nice clean packet. I think a lot more people would reconsider their dining choices if they had to go and kill their own animals... but I digress.

When it come to spearfishing, I like to know where my food comes from, I like to know that it lived a wild, natural life - I feel the obvious 'hunter's remorse' when I shoot one and take a life but, well... that's life. Things die. Humans are meant to eats other things, it's what we do: I personally wish we would all do a bit less of it but that's another story.

I've just made the decision that there are certain living things that, for my own personal reasons, I don't want to eat. It's possibly a slightly hypocritical stance to take but it a personal one and I don't really care

I enjoy fish, I love the sea and I love nothing more than being out in the ocean with my speargun.

 

[bobdonny]

Great Post man!!! J

For me I try to balance my diet with 40% veg 40% fish and 20% meat.
I try to limit anything refined (like sugar or white flour etc.) and likewise I reject most processed foods including meat.
I won’t even get in to the crap they sell in supermarkets, but suffice to say I order my pig and lamb whole, and I get big lump of beef every now and then. I still have pork from the pig I got last Nov. I make my own bacon and sausages.
I have a large garden where I grow my own fruit and veg. It covers about 80% of my groceries when in season and about 25% out of season.

Not only does it save a lot of money but all the food in our diet is relatively natural and untainted. The animals we have killed have had a pretty good life (we know the farms) and there is little wasted.

You see the above is practical aswell… it’s about eating local produce. Eating things natural to your area. And I feel exactly the same about fish.
I think it is “CRITICAL” that you access the environment (ecosystem) you hunt in and choose for your plate because of that. Too many spearo’s go out just to catch the one fish and turn their nose up at everything else edible (wrasse, flounder, mullet etc.). On the other hand too many people also refuse to eat things that look cute or cuddley (dogfish, huss, ray etc.).

The bottom line is this (and this is a very basic example). If the area you dive has 7 wrasse for every 1 bass then the wrasse are dominant in that area. They are not leaving enough food for juvenile fish to eat and bass will never become prevalent. If you go for a dive in this area and every time you only shoot bass you are actually making the situation worse in and 10 years time you will not see any bass there at all.

Pretty much everything in the ocean is edible, wrasse, conger etc. So it shouldn’t be about what tastes good or looks ugly. It should be about what is sustainable.

Another example is local to here. There is a harbor that has had an EXPLOSION in the dogfish population. Like the above there was an imbalance in what fish were being targeted. Specifically cod… The cod were all but eliminated from the harborand the dogfish went rampant on thier abundant food source that remained when the cod left and now the mature dogfish eat the juvenile cod before they can get established compounding the problem.

All fish taste good, (dogfish and cod both on chip shop menu's prove this), but selective fishing leads to serious problems.

I am super lucky in that where I fish bass is the most dominant fish and lately we are seeing more lobster than crab. And out deep Pollock rules. So they are my staples for the time being. When mullet come in I may start taking a few, but we don’t get that many here. Dogfish and wrasse are also not in any great numbers but I have no problem eating them, I found wrasse quiet tasty.

Conger is a traditional dish in many places and yes it is an effort. I have never had it, not too sure I could be bothered with the effort… but if they colonized an area, then I would have no problem taking a few out. They are slow to mature, so take the decision to kill them seriously, but don’t rule it out all together.

When I say rule it out altogether I mean with land based reasoning. In tescos, we can make a decisions like the above. I.e. I am vegetarian and I only like X fish. After a while the suppliers realize this and adapt their selling to suit the consumer. I’m afraid that the ocean does not work like this… You only like X fish… we tough Sh!t then ocean is only gonna give you what it’s got… it’s up to you whether you damage you local ecosystem of try to help it…

 

[apneaboy]

Good thread.

 

[foxfish]

I feel this is a very personal issue as everybody has an opinion that someone else will disagree with!

The fact is all fish are having a hard time & all stocks are under threat be it from overfishing or pollution the threat is there.

So purly on a personal basis... I take what I want to eat & that excludes several species because of my personal beliefs & taste buds.

I love plaice so they are top of my list, I dont like red mullet because I dont like the taste but lots of my friends do!
So do I shoot red mullet - yes but only very occasionally.

I dont shoot conger because (1) I can remember the time of plenty when they were common & I dont want to be responsible for even more decline.
(2) I like to show folk any conger I find as they can be impressive beast to see. I know of one fish that has been resident for about 8 years in the same hole & she is a beauty!!
(3) killing a conger is not like killing a bass because it is a difficult fish to kill cleanly & usually involves a struggle & a lot of stress for the fish (25lb fish are the most active & difficult to deal with).
(4) They absolutely stink, cover everything in slime, they are full of bone & very wasteful unless you have a strong stomach!

Wrasse, to me, are like puppy dogs, & even though poodles are edible I dont eat those either!
I love to see big wrasse & even with the huge decline in numbers they are still the most common large fish we see around my way.
The channel islands have always offered the best chance of big wrasse & hundreds of folk still travel here to catch them on rod & line. However they do not make particularly good eating & more to the point, they look gorgeous just swimming around - I like to watch them not kill them.

Most other fish I will shoot if I feel I have a use for them.

 

[Padaxes]

Yeah it is a very personal issue, that's why I thought it might be interesting to get an insight into how other people approach it.

It seems to me allot of Spearos are very conscious of these issues. I think it's an important aspect of our sport allot of people don't appreciate. There's also allot of new people starting out and it might be good for them to be able to read other peoples thoughts on the matter.

 

[Jonny250]

Padaxes this is a good thread, thanks for raising the subject
I agree that everyone will have their own differing views, but i think its pretty universal that 'people' are changing the planet for the worse: Welcome to the Anthropocene:
https://vimeo.com/39048998

However i think it is much easier for someone living near a 'natural' environment to appreciate the importance and the effect the we have on the planet, whether we are talking fish, cows, or pollution!

My own attitude has changed as i am learning to spearfish - I now take just the fish that the family likes and i try not to take too much excess.

The above comments are interesting - especially about the wrasse and cod; If that was to also apply to bass, then we should not be taking any bass from the sea [yet we spearos (myself included) still congratulate each other on taking a good size bass...]! It is also interesting from the point of view that if i have a quiet session [usually, at this time of year!] then i start wondering if i saw a couple of bass swim by, would i want to kill them? probably not! On the other hand if i have just hopped in the water and come accross the same 2 fish then i might be inclined to take the first as it would 'appear' to be a fishy day, and i would be pleased...

 

[DafyddRees]

Nice thread Si - Enjoyed reading the replies as well!

Ethically, I personally don't have to think about justifying spearing a fish. I do it because I enjoy being out on the sea and eating prime fish and crustaceans (as well as cephalopods!). I don't take wrasse or conger but nor do I see it an issue when they are taken as long as they are of a legal size and eaten.

I am not condoning it in anyway but what I do struggle to understand is when I see a boat full of spear caught fish...I still can't fathom that out as that mentality of taking that many fish does not fit into my understanding of what spearfishing is.

I firmly believe that modern society is becoming too soft. It is especially evident on social networking sites where accessible spearing photos/videos are easily viewed by browsers that see spears through fish and take it upon themselves to leave a self-righteous comment or leave a link to PETA.

Maybe it because I feel strongly about societies detachment from food that I feel the need to fly the banner for the hunter-gatherers out there. As far as I am concerned, shooting a fish is like digging up a potato - as long as they get eaten or utilised in some way, it is fine by me.

 

[BarnacleBoy]

Nice post DafyddRees and good to know the flag of the ethical hunter-gatherer is being flown proudly. I concur with your sentiments. It's a shame that so many people turn a blind eye to the processes used by some mass food production companies whilst being hyper critical to activities like spear-fishing through ignorance.

Spear-fishing, when done sensibly, has to be the most sustainable way of putting fish on the table, and has the lowest impact on the environment possible. We should be unreservedly proud of what we do and educate 'outsiders' where possible.

 

[Robbo66]

Nice thread Si - Enjoyed reading the replies as well!

Ethically, I personally don't have to think about justifying spearing a fish. I do it because I enjoy being out on the sea and eating prime fish and crustaceans (as well as cephalopods!). I don't take wrasse or conger but nor do I see it an issue when they are taken as long as they are of a legal size and eaten.

I am not condoning it in anyway but what I do struggle to understand is when I see a boat full of spear caught fish...I still can't fathom that out as that mentality of taking that many fish does not fit into my understanding of what spearfishing is.

I firmly believe that modern society is becoming too soft. It is especially evident on social networking sites where accessible spearing photos
easily viewed by browsers that see spears through fish and take it upon themselves to leave a self-righteous comment or leave a link to PETA.

Maybe it because I feel strongly about societies detachment from food that I feel the need to fly the banner for the hunter-gatherers out there. As far as I am concerned, shooting a fish is like digging up a potato - as long as they get eaten or utilised in some way, it is fine by me.

Good post.

 

[scottwilson]

I am not condoning it in anyway but what I do struggle to understand is when I see a boat full of spear caught fish...I still can't fathom that out as that mentality of taking that many fish does not fit into my understanding of what spearfishing is.

This is a great thread

As a South African I was brought up on meat and fish . My father only had one thing banned from the house and that was KFC ( still to this day I dont know why) When my sister announced becoming a vegetarian I think it shaved 10 years off his life roflroflrofl He was and still is a keen fisherman
who taught me to respect and appreciate the food we had.

Nothing I catch goes to waste. Im not a trophy hunter but i wont turn down an 11lb bass.

when I first started spearing I had the chance to go everyday the sea would let me now Im not so lucky, If I dive twice a week im lucky so If I have the chance to hit 5 fish I will

I understand what you saying about a boat load of fish but it depends on the amount of speaors on the boat and of course there diving habits.

If you take a boat of say 4 divers who dive once a week, a haul of 24 fish is only six each.

Taking six fish a week is a small amount compared to the "eco friendly spearo" who only take 2 fish a day but dives every day.

A few years a go I speared a conger. It was my first and very possibly my last. It just wasnt my cup of tea to be fair. I also had a big ray which if given the chance I would take again.

I take more flounder than Bass simply because they taste better and are more abundant than bass. I take very few mullet and never touch wrasse as I have no interest in them but I would never knock someone for taking one.

The biggest chunk of sea food I eat is scallops, crabs , lobsters and pollack. They can be found pretty much all year round and tastes great

 

[chealy]

Coming into spearfishing quite recently, this being only my second season, my perpective on what I will eat has changed from when I first started.

I have shot Dogfish and Wrasse with the latter being the only one I would actually consider shooting again, both are great to watch in their own rights when diving, but Dogfish just does not do it for me as I found the meat quite mushy.

I understand Mullet is eaten quite alot in other parts of Europe, but the vast majority of Irish people are quite shocked when I tell them I eat it regularly, but considering you see vast shoals swimming up the river Lee
sometimes you cannot really blame them.

My perpective on people taking vast amounts of fish is that this only damages other peoples view of the sport we all love, which in the long term could prove to have negative effect for all of us.

Take this tosser as a prime example of greed:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtYd-5kie5c]Pesca Submarina - Irlanda - Santolas ( Spider Crab) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[scubadog]

Wrasse are not slow growing.

Compared to bass they are the sustanable fish and they taste very nice.

Dog fish is also good meat, just not worth skinning them.

I will never shoot a conger. They only breed once, and once they have they die. So thoes that you see have never actually bread. Crazy when you see a 100lb monster lurking under wrecks.

Just as a bit of a side note to those vegeterians. If any vegeterain drinks milk, i am affraid, in my opinon that person is extremley hipocritical. Milk industry is by far the cruelest thing I have every seen. Consider I have shot hundreds of phesents, partridge, duck. pidgeons and caught countless fish, but working on a dairy farm I just cant bring myself to do.

 

[scottwilson]

Everyones entitled to their own opinion Scubadog

As far as Im aware the Milk topic is a matter of choice for the vegie munchers. Its the vegans that dont touch the stuff and walk around barefoot

 

[Robbo66]

Wrasse are not slow growing.

Compared to bass they are the sustanable fish and they taste very nice.

Dog fish is also good meat, just not worth skinning them.

Biblically incorrect.

 

[Padaxes]

Lets keep it to spearing eh. (alhtough I agree the milk industry is horrendous).

Marine Life - Ballan Wrasse -TOLGUS-SUB-AQUA-CLUB

"Wrasse are slow growing and long lived (up to 20 years)."

I believe they are territorial as well so u can have the same big Wrasse in the same area of many many years. Added to that I find them too friendly to shoot myself.

 

[Broseidon]

Wrasse are not slow growing.

Wrong.

Compared to bass they are the sustanable fish and they taste very nice.

Wrong and wrong.

Dog fish is also good meat, just not worth skinning them.

Dubious.

I will never shoot a conger. They only breed once, and once they have they die. So thoes that you see have never actually bread. Crazy when you see a 100lb monster lurking under wrecks.

Wrong again, the breeding cycle of the conger still remains a mystery.

Just as a bit of a side note to those vegeterians. If any vegeterain drinks milk, i am affraid, in my opinon that person is extremley hipocritical.

Totally off topic but yeah, just for the record, no-one claimed to actually be vegetarian - this is a spearfishing forum, we don't exactly practice catch and release...but thanks for the moral guidance. I personally avoid all dairy like the plague as it makes me cough and fills me with mucus.

 

[Padaxes]

Actually I understood congers only breed once as well.

Found a lovely little baby conger in a rock pool yesterday, tried to pick him up but the bugger was so slimy i couldn't get a grip on him lol

 

[foxfish]

I have certainly read that congers only breed once but it is unknown exactly where in the oceans this takes place.
I am also led to believe that male conger only reach 6-9lb in weigh & it is exceptionally rare to find any conger below 3lb!
(Padaxes I think you found a silver eel)
It would be interesting to find out more if any info is available...

Wrasse are very susceptible to overfishing due to their slow growth & territorial nature.

Wrasse also give the illusion that there are lots of them because the live in shallow water reef & weedy areas where we also spend most of our time hunting.

However wrasse dont really live anywhere else unlike bass that can be found anywhere & everywhere - deep water, shallow water, sand, wrecks, open ocean etc.
The same can be said of other species but wrasse, at least in the summer, live where we hunt.