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What is a good Kelp Rig?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Lockedin

Rock Hopper
Nov 28, 2005
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I'm new to spearfishing, and have a rigging question. I've been diving around the kelp beds in Southern Ventura Co. for a while now and I'm wondering:

1 Are those kelp beds a viable hunting ground?

2 Advice on times, tides and such.

3 Speargun rigging. - I have an 40" AB Biller (kinda old) w/ 20ft of "shooting line" (should I have a float, a reel, how do I rig?) :duh

Any advice is appreciated!

Rick
 
I live way south of there so I don't know the local area. However, the county line area between Ventura and LA produces some monster wsb. A couple of guys each got three over 50 pounds one day this summer.

I'd say that gun is too short for white sea bass and yellowtail, but is OK for calicos and halibut. Something in the 55" range would be more ideal for the larger fish. You should definitely have a reel or float line before you shoot a white sea bass or yellowtail, or you are likely to get the gun taken away from you if you are freediving. And even if you are scuba diving, the fish is likely to pull hard enough to tear off even if you don't need to get up for air.

If you use a float line, don't use a float on the rear end, or you will spend all your time going back to untangle it. Most people who use float lines in the kelp use some sort of small egg float on the rear end simply to have something to grab when all the line has been pulled though their hands. The photos show the sort of thing I'm talking about.

With either a reel or float line, it would be best to have at least 100 feet of line.
 

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Here are some examples of rigging with reels and float lines.

The float line can just be clipped to a loop of mono or something similar attached to the rear of the gun, or it can be rigged breakaway style. With the breakaway, the loop in the rear end of the shooting line should be a few inches from the line release. Then attach a loop of bungee cord to the shooting line and stretch it over the line release. Clip the float line to the loop in the shooting line. When you pull the trigger, there is a straight connection from the fish to the float line and you have the gun safe in your hands. Of course I may be gettng a bit ahead for your 40" gun, but at least you can file the info for the future.
 

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seeing as bill took care of the hard question, ill give you my take on the easier one:

2. Advice on times, tides and such.

early morning and late evening are best for WSB, but they are around all day. yellowtail dont appear to have a preference (not to me anyway). in the kelp the effect of the tide is variable, but the simple answer is that here in california, for the most part it doesnt matter. some people really prefer a rising tide and they will argue this pushes the bait in closer to the kelp. there will be other factors however that will be more 1000x important that you cannot predict or control like currents, upwelling, visibility, surge, plankton blooms, and when your boss lets you off work.
 
Well, I really tackled what I thought were the easy parts, but since Phil tackled the hard ones, I'll dip a toe in.

Its taken me years, but I've reluctantly decided that late evening is the best time for white sea bass, and its better than early morning. And the reason I've been reluctant is that late evening is the time when I want to be home with my honey drinking a beer rather than crawling out of the water in the dark.

Summer before last was the only time that I have ever been able to dive the same spot day after day and try to figure out a connection between tides, current, time of day, and seeing white sea bass. It was a spot on the mainland coast just a short run from the harbor. In general, it drove me nuts. Some times the fish would be there on the incoming tide, and sometimes on the outgoing. Sometimes they would be there when the current was from the north, and other times when the current was from the south. The only thing I thought I leaned about tides and current was that the fish were more likely to be seen on the upcurrent end of the kelp bed.

But concerning time of day- I would generally arrive at a decent hour in the morning and dive during the day, as befits a retired old fart. A good many times I would be going back to the harbor and pass a friend who has to work for a living going down there for the late evening show after he got away from work. There were quite a few times when we had not seen anything or at least not very much, and then he would do very well at sunset.

Another thing regarding currents- there is a guy from the Santa Barbara area who is generally regarded to have a hot line to God when it comes to spearing white sea bass, and he does very well. Many people have told me that he won't even bother to get into the water at any other time but the period from an hour before high tide to an hour after high tide. I suppose that might be useful if you don't have a long run to the islands or where ever you are diving, but how am I to put that to use if I'm going to San Clemente Island, 51 nautical miles offshore. First, I'm sure not going to arrive for the dawn show. And the only way I'll be able to dive the sunset show is if I'm willing to get home at midnight or if I'm spending the night out there. So I'll be there as early as I can, and leave as late as I can and still not have to run too many miles in the black, and I'll damn sure dive all the time I'm at the island, no matter when high tide is.

All of the time I'm there may not be the optimum time, but I'm not sitting in the boat after that long run.
 
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Wow! Thanks for all of the info. This should keep me busy (& my Wife bored) for a while!

Rick
 
Lockedin said:
Wow! Thanks for all of the info. This should keep me busy (& my Wife bored) for a while!

Rick

I hope it helps at least a bit.

If you would like to chat more on the subject and want to discuss anything that you think might not be worthy of boring the board, my email address is on the bottom of each post, and then I'd be glad to exchange phone numbers if you would like. There isn't much diving to do this time of year, so I might as well write about it and talk about it.:)
 
Bill McIntyre said:
...With either a reel or float line, its would be best to have at least 100 feet of line.
Great postings Bill but why so much float line -- are you dealing with very deep water or very large fish? Do you keep excess on a winder? I use 20m / 60 ft and often it seems too much & a nuisance.
 
Mr. X said:
Great postings Bill but why so much float line -- are you dealing with very deep water or very large fish? Do you keep excess on a winder? I use 20m / 60 ft and often it seems too much & a nuisance.

It does seem strange, but we do need a long line shooting big white sea bass in the thick kelp. Even if you are in relatively shallow water, a fish can run to the bottom, go under kelp and then travel horizontally. You are being pulled straight down. Or the fish may be turning back and forth through the kelp, taking up a lot of line.

My favorite example involved a friend diving in just 25 feet of water with a 100 foot float line. He shot a 60 pound fish and was being pulled straight down and struggling to get back to the surface, then being pulled under again repeatedly. He was on the verge of giving up and turning loose when the boat arrived and he managed to grab the swim step. If it had not been for the boat arriving, he would have lost shaft, slip tip, float line, and fish.

And no, we don't keep it on a winder. Its all just trailing behind us on the surface.
 
yeh i find the 100 ft of line a little irritating. next year i may try attaching a 50 ft float line to a tuna spillpack that has another 50 ft and a small egg bouy. the rob allen spillpack is very low profile and practically neutral, so im hoping it wont get tangled. about 70% of the time the fish wraps up before 50 ft anyway, and for the other 30% of the time i can grab onto the egg bouy and let the spill pack deploy. if anyone has already tried something like this id love to hear their thoughts.
 
So tell me about this Rob Allen spill pack thing. Is dealing with it really less easy than just having an extra 50 feet of line behind you?

I agree that most of them tie up early, so if this thing really works and doesn't hang up, it might be an improvement.

I guess that this is the time for full disclosure. I am a reel man for the last few years, so all this talk of float lines is academic for me at the present. And one reason is that I have 148 feet of line on my reel, so I have even more than the longest floatline, but without the hastle. And if I didn't insist on having the thick 3 mm line to grab, I could really have a hell of a lot of 2 mm line on the reel. However, I have always been known to be wishywashy and have switched back and forth in the past, so I could use the info.
 
yeah, I'm interested in the spillpack thing too. Never heard of one of those.

By the way Bill, I bought one of those orange foam filled float lines from Norcal Freedivers based on your recommendation. It was cheap and it works great. I still want to try the Riffe line eventually, but for now that one is great. Thanks for the info.
 
I think he's talking about the old RA with the pocket. If you stuff the extra line in the pocket, it can be deployed when you need it.
 
sdbr911 said:
yeah, I'm interested in the spillpack thing too. Never heard of one of those.

By the way Bill, I bought one of those orange foam filled float lines from Norcal Freedivers based on your recommendation. It was cheap and it works great. I still want to try the Riffe line eventually, but for now that one is great. Thanks for the info.

That's good to hear. I have never used one myself, so my recommendation was strictly based on seeing a couple of friends with them. I've really been impressed with how easy they are to see when I'm in the boat. I can look out across a kelp bed and see that line even when I don't notice the diver's head and snorkel, and out in open water on kelp paddies they are a delight when trying to keep track of the divers while not running over their lines. And of course you can't beat the price.
 
Mr. X said:
Rob Allen product catalog (a little out of date now, see P10): http://www.europeanspearfishingsupplies.com/downloads/roballencatalogue.pdf

I found something called a Joey Pouch. Is that what we are talking about? If so, it says it can be retrofitted to any rigid RA float. Can it also be used without a float?

I haven't seen one of these things, but I can't help feeling that any pouch full of coiled line would be a lot more likely to snag in the kelp than a straight float line would be.
 
That's what I thought they meant, although it looks like they have this other thing too: http://www.roballen.co.za/floats.html
[BTW My rig is that shown bottom right corner -- must be doing something right!;)]
 

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no it doesnt need to be attached to a float, anything with a longline clip will work fine (eg a float line) and one of the small egg buoys at the end would be sufficent to keep in neutral. i dont know for sure if it will get tangled, its on my list of things to try during the winter. on one hand it is wider than the line itself on the other hand the big reason floats get tangled has to do more with the fact that they are so bouyant not just simply that they are bulky (ie the line gets caught under the kelp but then the bouy wont slip under it.)
 
I often use my 11 litre RA float in very dense weed (esp. when the tide is low) & have not had any problems with it -- perhaps because it is hard, shiney & stream-line (no rings, straps, etc.). It has balast but sits quite high in the water. Moving steadily seems to be key -- give the weed the opportunity to move with you. The float line tangling with itself is more of an issue (not a biggie though) -- thicker lines, like the foam filled RA floatline, would prob. tangle less.

However, I found an egg-shaped float on Chesil beach recently (there was a lot of plastic flotsam & jetson there after a storm). Fortunately I had seen pictures of float lines with egg-floats, so thought it might be useful. I might give it a bash -- but where do you clip your stringer?
[Its good that the RA float line is thick, orange & visible -- as you won't have a safety "diver down" flag -- but it might attract curious boaters/grockels]

Anybody use a kelp clip (looks like a test tube holder) or the small Rob Allen kelp/float hook to anchor their float while spearing?
 
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