What is FRC?

[Kars]

Hi Dannyor,

Thanks for sharing your observations and sensations of your practice with the different exercises. I feel it will help me to understand the human body better and I'm also pleased to know that my video is giving positive feelings to others.

On your sensations. I did get tinglings a few times in the past, but I don't recall dizzyness. I'm wondering what it may be. I suspect having a lot of CO2 in the blood, thanks to the 7x60 seconds with short - low ventilation - intervals. But CO2 would be a bit more like being drunk, with a trailing sense of balance and slower thoughts. I'm interested to know weather this happens more and how your preparation was, including things like food, water and rest. Do you experience the same 'dissyness' the same when you do a long and challenging CO2 table?

If the relaxation remains so long present, enjoy it!

Maybe, in order to get technique and other parts in start with the active stuff and finish with the relaxation parts?

You can always take some beverage with you to hype yourself up for the active part. Taking a suit off and jumping in colder water also helps to wake up
But indeed if you did a long dive and used all your buffers for that, than you're body is done for the day. I'm sure you begin to see the value of the "no warm up" approach

What you also can do after the FRC stuff is drink some apple juice and lay down somewhere warm with the legs a bit up and recover for 5-10 minutes, eyes closed.

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

Hi Guys!
Following suggested threads led me to Kars video on exhale diving. Tried it in the pool this morning. This is so awesome! Connor, I followed your advice and started with 7x60 sec FRC. My body got more and more relaxed (That is the first 60 sec were tough at the end and the last ones were very relaxed). After that I was very relaxed and tried to do 'frog flow' like Kars. This is the direction I'm looking for. After ~2:40 the sensations of the body changed, I started to feel tinglings all over, And then I started to feel a bit dizzy (no contractions though) and remembered your warnings that the body signs change and got myself out.
Also I experienced my trachea get squished as you told me. I guess this will get better with practice.
I attempted my planned swimming session afterwards and thought the body would get out of this state. After 200m swim I understood that swimming and this state of relaxation do not mix well. 3 hours have passed since and I still feel the effect of it.

Thanks a lot ...

 

[dannyor]

Hi Kars!
Nice hearing from you. Among my family and friends you have gained the status of a movie superstar . I've shown your video to many and got many people curious.

Regarding your question, my preparation was an empty stomach (before breakfast, actually). It was early morning after a good sleep. Regarding drink, I found only later that I was a bit dehydrated. Maybe this had to do something with the mentioned dizzyness. I'm also very much interested to figure out if it had something to do with it.

I have already tried to do as you advised, that is, doing the active part first and it works well (the relaxation I reach is a bit less though).
I promise to try the apple juice soon.
Thanks for the advice

Daniel

 

[Kars]

Seems the dehydration is the main factor, hampering the blood flow, O2 / CO2 flow.

For rehydration I use a mix of 50% water, 50% apple juice and a tiny, tiny pinch of salt.
This is the old fashion sports drink. I don't like the today chemical poison soup they sell for too much.

Movie star, lol, glad it's received well. What are the typical comments by the people you've shown it to?

Oh and you need to promise me, not to make any promises to me, can you promise that to me?

I'm just teasing, but the idea behind this is that I would very much like everyone become a self respecting, experienced individual, an adult capable and seeking to have an independent mind, will and life.

 

[ktreloar]

hey Connor,

hows it going mate?

Hmm the volume i use for training is about the same i try to use for diving. Not quite sure how much air is left.. Hmm would say around half, i usually just do a passive exhale to a relaxed body position, meaning i let the top of part of my body relax almost like a sigh.. Training didnt go to well for me last week either have been working pretty hard at word atm and when i tried to do my swims my legs were giving way at 50m. During these dives i still wasnt getting contractions till just over 2 mins. These swims are done with the no warm up method.. So to answer your question the amount of air in my lungs is probs around 3 litres.

Is anyone else doing 1:1 ratio frc training (Static then dynamic)???

Cheers guys

Kyle Treloar

 

[dannyor]

Hi Kars
Your drink recipe sounds good. I think I'll try it, not promising anything ...
The typical comments for your video are:
+ "Beautiful"
+ "How is it possible?"
+ "He is so relaxed"

Also, some people are triggered to try and find out how stopping their breathing feels like.
Besides that I completely respect and agree with the idea you have rendered in the end.

 

[dannyor]

Hi Kyle.
I would like to know more about the training you described.
What do you mean by 1:1 ratio?
My guess is that you spend the same time breathing and then FRC apnea.
Am I right?

Thanks

Daniel

 

[Siku]

I'm afraid I can't find the link to Kars' video.

Can someone post a link to it here please?

 

[fflupo]

it means that there is a static breath-hold in the beginning followed by a dyn of the same time, so the total dive is a static/dyn

- the dive response kickin in during the static gives some benefit while the dyn

i do some training where i wait for the first urge to breath doing an exhale static and start the dyn,..

;-) cool experience

wolf

 

[dannyor]

Thanks wolf for your comments. I'll try that.

And Siku, here's the link to Kars inspiring video:
YouTube - Frog Flow

 

[Andrew the fish]

just wanted to share my half-lung dives experience. For short - I am hooked. Tried them for the first time yesterday and was immediately amazed how different my mind-set is during half-lung/relaxed exhale dives. I get half the distance and about half of static times but who cares really. Negative bouyancy is something to get used to, I found myself dragging my belly against pool bottom a few times. Maybe with wetsuit it is going to be different, hope so anyway. Generally I just feel such complete relaxation and ease, it is amazing. Need for surfacing comes in a different way though, lactic acid burn more pronounced, contractions felt differently too. I don't think it is competing kind of dives but for a fun of it - give me two.

I want to thank you fellas who shares information, I heard about FRC for first time here, reading this and some other threads. It is all good stuff, big thanx.

 

[azapa]

not to put a downer on things, but I sometimes wonder if FRC divers were ever properly weighted on full lung?

i forgot my neckweight last week at a pool session so did my reps (50m only) less than half lung, about 25% I would say. I made them fine, lots of contractions, and some glide. But was happy to put on the ol' lead again last night!

 

[cdavis]

Azapa, are you just trying to be a trouble maker??

In truth, weighting is tricky, especially diving exhale. I've used about all the possible weighting styles, from heavy enough full lung to sink from 2 or 3 m (no suit, 6-7 lb of lead works great for bombing down on fish in 10+ m without having to move a muscle) to neutral at 13 m full lung( no weight) to exhale diving neutral at 3 to 5 meters. It takes more experimentation to get it right on exhale, because maximum efficiency is very much weighting dependent.

I think you can assume that someone diving exhale with the right weighting had it right when he (she) was diving full lung.

trouble maker

 

[dannyor]

Hi Andrew.
I completely agree with you.
Relaxation counts.
It is a nice experience ...

 

[azapa]

OK Connor, I was a little obtuse. Sorry. Let me put it another way:

Do you think one should enter into FRC experimentation without being a relatively experienced freediver? (define 'relatively experienced'....????)

I would think it bad to push the FRC route to newcomers, as the tools and experience to handle the challenges therin only come from years of diving full lung, as was your case.

That sounds better

What do you think?

 

[cdavis]

Hi Andrew, welcome to the world of exhale diving, glad you like it.

Getting your weighting right will come, as well as longer times and distances underwater. Weighting is not only different on exhale, it affects your dive pattern differently. For open water serial diving, you should be neutral close to the point that a good surface dive plus a light kick or two will get you to. Neutral at 4m-5m is a good starting point for medium depth diving. Decent glide from there is much slower than full lung, especially in the first few meters of glide. Like everything else in exhale, it takes experimentation and time.

Just curious, when you are doing exhale dives in the pool, about what percent of exhale are you doing, or roughly how many liters of air do you take down.

Connor

 

[dannyor]

Hi azapa.
What you say interests me very much.
I think you have a point.
I certainly am not experienced diver.
Just trying to figure out a way in which I can advance properly and FRC seemed like an interesting idea.
I liked the idea of exhale diving because the relaxation it introduces.
Also, though I am sort of a beginner, I can stop my breath at for relatively long time (PB 4:50) and I really enjoyed 'frog flow'. I have to admit that I was already advised by experienced divers not to use FRC for diving practices and not instead of the standard dynamic/static practices. Only for relaxation-fun and one of my tutors gave me static apnea practices with neutral lungs (almost FRC).
I'd really like to hear what is your opinion of a proper beginner's training.

 

[cdavis]

Just kidding Azapa. Anyway, I like trouble makers. They are the ones crazy enough to go diving with me.

It is a VERY good question, whether or not to start exhale diving when still a beginner (or close) or to wait until a diver has a good base in full lung diving. Worth lots and lots of discussion. Truly, I don't know the answer. For sure, if a diver is coming from a background of full lung, diving exhale is very different, tricky and should be approached slowly and with caution. But what if a diver is starting from scratch? Would it be more tricky than learning to dive full lung? Not sure. Note: when I think "diving exhale", I thinking about roughly 50 % lung volume. Full exhales are a different matter.
A couple of years ago, Fondueset exposed me to cold water diving. I felt like a bloated whale who could do nothing right. It was so different from what I was used to that I acquired a whole new respect for the difficulty of being a new diver. Would a diver trained from scratch in exhale diving be as much confused by trying to switch to diving full lung as the reverse?

Love to hear some more opinions on this.

Connor

 

[fflupo]

i think mainly it depends on the skills of the instructor but i can not see why not to teach motivated and relatively beginners E dives..

but it requires a professional set up ..

may we can start another thread about that

wolf

 

[Kars]

FRC for beginners?

Indeed a big enough question for a separate topic.

Just to throw out some thoughts:

- Increased relaxation due to less full feeling and no full inhale.
- Need less / no weights in the pool.
- Diver is likely not learn a proper inhale.
- Due to less air in lungs, the margin to black out is smaller. (In full exhale it's even smaller)

But I'm sure there are a lot more Ideas and factors to find out. So Wolf be my guest

 

[cdavis]

Great idea, Wolf. Ditto Kars.

Connor