What is it even that determines how long you can hold your breath for?

[Jamsebrown]

How is it that despite women typically having about 30% smaller TLC than men, there aren't any noticeable sex differences in breath-holding performance, particularly in static breath-holding? Men typically have higher muscle mass, which consumes oxygen, but does it truly have such a significant impact on breath-holding performance? Is it possible that breath-holding performance is more influenced by psychological factors rather than actual physical limitations? If so, what are the physical limits and are they different between sexes?

 

[musubi]

How is it that despite women typically having about 30% smaller TLC than men, there aren't any noticeable sex differences in breath-holding performance, particularly in static breath-holding? Men typically have higher muscle mass, which consumes oxygen, but does it truly have such a significant impact on breath-holding performance? Is it possible that breath-holding performance is more influenced by psychological factors rather than actual physical limitations? If so, what are the physical limits and are they different between sexes?

I can see a lot of variables and facets to this discussion, but what's affected me and my partners the most on breathhold time is being able to relax the mind and body. As to if psychological factors influence breathhold times more than physical factors, I'm not sure. I'm sure even genetics comes into play at some point (on it affecting both the mind and body).

 

[Jamsebrown]

I can see a lot of variables and facets to this discussion, but what's affected me and my partners the most on breathhold time is being able to relax the mind and body. As to if psychological factors influence breathhold times more than physical factors, I'm not sure. I'm sure even genetics comes into play at some point (on it affecting both the mind and body).

I see. Then, from what you’re
saying, Psychological factors such as relaxing your mind and body help you and your partners the most. However, I maybe wrong, but I think the time you can hold your breath for and your actual physical limit (like the maximum time you can hold your breath before blacking-out) are separate things.

 

[J Campbell]

How long can you hold your breath? The short answer is: until you blackout. Three things will influence this: your mental state of mind, your physical limits, and training.

 

[Jamsebrown]

How long can you hold your breath? The short answer is: until you blackout. Three things will influence this: your mental state of mind, your physical limits, and training.

And what affects the physical limits? Who has an advantage in that regard?

 

[J Campbell]

Bigger lungs to hold more O2, slow metabolism that does not use much O2

 

[musubi]

I see. Then, from what you’re
saying, Psychological factors such as relaxing your mind and body help you and your partners the most. However, I maybe wrong, but I think the time you can hold your breath for and your actual physical limit (like the maximum time you can hold your breath before blacking-out) are separate things.

I do mostly spearfishing, so breath hold time and ability to minimize oxygen usage are key for our dives. I used to do static breath holds, but I no longer do them.

I would think holding the breath and ones physical limit are describing the same thing, just one is easier to quantify than the other. Could you provide an example of what you mean where the breath hold time and the physical limits are separate? What would you consider a significant impact from men having more muscle mass?

For some, yes, breath holding is impacted more psychologically than physically. For others, it's the other way around. It varies, and I suspect unless there's a study on your addressing your questions, part of the answer will be that it depends on the individual and how efficiently that person is able to consume oxygen.

 

[Jamsebrown]

Bigger lungs to hold more O2, slow metabolism that does not use much O2

In most cases though lung size correlates to faster metabolism. Taller people have larger lungs but they need more oxygen. Same for men typically.

 

[adrian.u]

Since, generally, nobody even knows for sure exactly what leads to the decision to terminate breathhold, nobody can yet fully answer your question about breathhold performance, let alone actual physical limit (i.e. reaching blackout).

That's not to say there hasn't been research on the topic... here are a couple of fairly recent research articles that you might find interesting (and they contain plenty of references that you can follow):

https://physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/expphysiol.2005.031625

Frontiers | Large Lung Volumes Delay the Onset of the Physiological Breaking Point During Simulated Diving

During breath holding after face immersion there develops an urge to breathe. The point that would initiate the termination of the breath hold, the “physiolo...

www.frontiersin.org

Also, this very recent research analysing respiratory muscle signals during BH has some interesting points:

Wavelet Analysis of Respiratory Muscle sEMG Signals during the Physiological Breakpoint of Static Dry End-Expiratory Breath-Holding in Naive Apneists: A Pilot Study

The wavelet spectral characteristics of three respiratory muscle signals (scalenus (SC), parasternal intercostal (IC), and rectus abdominis (RA)) and one locomotor muscle (brachioradialis (BR)) were analyzed in the time–frequency (T-F) domain ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I think this sentence is quite telling, and likely has a bearing on your question about physical limits (i.e. BH until BO):
"Moreover, the correlation of intracellular mitochondrial respiratory metabolic processes with respiration in real time, as well as changes in the membrane potential with inhalation and exhalation, suggest that respiration is one of the most integrated physiological processes."
The article goes on to talk about mitochondrial adaptations that provide advantages for BH.

This article similarly suggests that mitochondrial adaptations are important for BH:

Oxygen conserving mitochondrial adaptations in the skeletal muscles of breath hold divers

The performance of elite breath hold divers (BHD) includes static breath hold for more than 11 minutes, swimming as far as 300 m, or going below 250 m in depth, all on a single breath of air. Diving mammals are adapted to sustain oxidative metabolism ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There are, of course, other physiological features and adaptations that play a significant role, e.g. as mentioned here:

Cardiac hypoxic resistance and decreasing lactate during maximum apnea in elite breath hold divers

Breath-hold divers (BHD) enduring apnea for more than 4 min are characterized by resistance to release of reactive oxygen species, reduced sensitivity to hypoxia, and low mitochondrial oxygen consumption in their skeletal muscles similar to northern ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Fasting improves static apnea performance in elite divers without enhanced risk of syncope - PubMed

In competitive apnea divers, the nutritional demands may be essentially different from those of, for example, endurance athletes, where energy resources need to be maximised for successful performance. In competitive apnea, the goal is instead to limit metabolism, as the length of the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Again, there are numerous references in the above that may provide further insights into the physiology of breathhold.

In short, how we use up oxygen during BH is very complicated, and there are a lot of very detailed physiological factors that play a role in determining the physical limit of BH. This means it's impossible to break it down to just a handful of the most obvious things, even though they play an important role (e.g. lung capacity, height, weight, muscle mass, gender, etc.) It would therefore require numerous (quite invasive) measurements before being able to make a half-decent guess what the physical limit may be for any specific individual - and, from what I read above, it seems some of the physiological factors may only become clear (i.e. measurable) during BH itself.

I think only those who actively research these things are going to be able to provide the detailed answers you're looking for - and I suspect the intersection between those researchers and the active forum members here is likely (close to?) zero.

Anyway, I hope the above may provide you some interesting bedtime reading...

 

[Jamsebrown]

Since, generally, nobody even knows for sure exactly what leads to the decision to terminate breathhold, nobody can yet fully answer your question about breathhold performance, let alone actual physical limit (i.e. reaching blackout).

That's not to say there hasn't been research on the topic... here are a couple of fairly recent research articles that you might find interesting (and they contain plenty of references that you can follow):

https://physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/expphysiol.2005.031625

Frontiers | Large Lung Volumes Delay the Onset of the Physiological Breaking Point During Simulated Diving

During breath holding after face immersion there develops an urge to breathe. The point that would initiate the termination of the breath hold, the “physiolo...

www.frontiersin.org

Also, this very recent research analysing respiratory muscle signals during BH has some interesting points:

Wavelet Analysis of Respiratory Muscle sEMG Signals during the Physiological Breakpoint of Static Dry End-Expiratory Breath-Holding in Naive Apneists: A Pilot Study

The wavelet spectral characteristics of three respiratory muscle signals (scalenus (SC), parasternal intercostal (IC), and rectus abdominis (RA)) and one locomotor muscle (brachioradialis (BR)) were analyzed in the time–frequency (T-F) domain ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I think this sentence is quite telling, and likely has a bearing on your question about physical limits (i.e. BH until BO):
"Moreover, the correlation of intracellular mitochondrial respiratory metabolic processes with respiration in real time, as well as changes in the membrane potential with inhalation and exhalation, suggest that respiration is one of the most integrated physiological processes."
The article goes on to talk about mitochondrial adaptations that provide advantages for BH.

This article similarly suggests that mitochondrial adaptations are important for BH:

Oxygen conserving mitochondrial adaptations in the skeletal muscles of breath hold divers

The performance of elite breath hold divers (BHD) includes static breath hold for more than 11 minutes, swimming as far as 300 m, or going below 250 m in depth, all on a single breath of air. Diving mammals are adapted to sustain oxidative metabolism ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There are, of course, other physiological features and adaptations that play a significant role, e.g. as mentioned here:

Cardiac hypoxic resistance and decreasing lactate during maximum apnea in elite breath hold divers

Breath-hold divers (BHD) enduring apnea for more than 4 min are characterized by resistance to release of reactive oxygen species, reduced sensitivity to hypoxia, and low mitochondrial oxygen consumption in their skeletal muscles similar to northern ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Fasting improves static apnea performance in elite divers without enhanced risk of syncope - PubMed

In competitive apnea divers, the nutritional demands may be essentially different from those of, for example, endurance athletes, where energy resources need to be maximised for successful performance. In competitive apnea, the goal is instead to limit metabolism, as the length of the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Again, there are numerous references in the above that may provide further insights into the physiology of breathhold.

In short, how we use up oxygen during BH is very complicated, and there are a lot of very detailed physiological factors that play a role in determining the physical limit of BH. This means it's impossible to break it down to just a handful of the most obvious things, even though they play an important role (e.g. lung capacity, height, weight, muscle mass, gender, etc.) It would therefore require numerous (quite invasive) measurements before being able to make a half-decent guess what the physical limit may be for any specific individual - and, from what I read above, it seems some of the physiological factors may only become clear (i.e. measurable) during BH itself.

I think only those who actively research these things are going to be able to provide the detailed answers you're looking for - and I suspect the intersection between those researchers and the active forum members here is likely (close to?) zero.

Anyway, I hope the above may provide you some interesting bedtime reading...

This is really helpful, OMG!
Thank you so much!

 

[Mr. X]

Bigger lungs to hold more O2, slow metabolism that does not use much O2

Isn't it more to do with CO2 produced/held than O2 available?. Hence risk of hyperventilation etc.

 

[Mr. X]

Since, generally, nobody even knows for sure exactly what leads to the decision to terminate breathhold, nobody can yet fully answer your question about breathhold performance, let alone actual physical limit (i.e. reaching blackout).

That's not to say there hasn't been research on the topic... here are a couple of fairly recent research articles that you might find interesting (and they contain plenty of references that you can follow):

https://physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/expphysiol.2005.031625

Frontiers | Large Lung Volumes Delay the Onset of the Physiological Breaking Point During Simulated Diving

During breath holding after face immersion there develops an urge to breathe. The point that would initiate the termination of the breath hold, the “physiolo...

www.frontiersin.org

Also, this very recent research analysing respiratory muscle signals during BH has some interesting points:

Wavelet Analysis of Respiratory Muscle sEMG Signals during the Physiological Breakpoint of Static Dry End-Expiratory Breath-Holding in Naive Apneists: A Pilot Study

The wavelet spectral characteristics of three respiratory muscle signals (scalenus (SC), parasternal intercostal (IC), and rectus abdominis (RA)) and one locomotor muscle (brachioradialis (BR)) were analyzed in the time–frequency (T-F) domain ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I think this sentence is quite telling, and likely has a bearing on your question about physical limits (i.e. BH until BO):
"Moreover, the correlation of intracellular mitochondrial respiratory metabolic processes with respiration in real time, as well as changes in the membrane potential with inhalation and exhalation, suggest that respiration is one of the most integrated physiological processes."
The article goes on to talk about mitochondrial adaptations that provide advantages for BH.

This article similarly suggests that mitochondrial adaptations are important for BH:

Oxygen conserving mitochondrial adaptations in the skeletal muscles of breath hold divers

The performance of elite breath hold divers (BHD) includes static breath hold for more than 11 minutes, swimming as far as 300 m, or going below 250 m in depth, all on a single breath of air. Diving mammals are adapted to sustain oxidative metabolism ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There are, of course, other physiological features and adaptations that play a significant role, e.g. as mentioned here:

Cardiac hypoxic resistance and decreasing lactate during maximum apnea in elite breath hold divers

Breath-hold divers (BHD) enduring apnea for more than 4 min are characterized by resistance to release of reactive oxygen species, reduced sensitivity to hypoxia, and low mitochondrial oxygen consumption in their skeletal muscles similar to northern ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Fasting improves static apnea performance in elite divers without enhanced risk of syncope - PubMed

In competitive apnea divers, the nutritional demands may be essentially different from those of, for example, endurance athletes, where energy resources need to be maximised for successful performance. In competitive apnea, the goal is instead to limit metabolism, as the length of the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Again, there are numerous references in the above that may provide further insights into the physiology of breathhold.

In short, how we use up oxygen during BH is very complicated, and there are a lot of very detailed physiological factors that play a role in determining the physical limit of BH. This means it's impossible to break it down to just a handful of the most obvious things, even though they play an important role (e.g. lung capacity, height, weight, muscle mass, gender, etc.) It would therefore require numerous (quite invasive) measurements before being able to make a half-decent guess what the physical limit may be for any specific individual - and, from what I read above, it seems some of the physiological factors may only become clear (i.e. measurable) during BH itself.

I think only those who actively research these things are going to be able to provide the detailed answers you're looking for - and I suspect the intersection between those researchers and the active forum members here is likely (close to?) zero.

Anyway, I hope the above may provide you some interesting bedtime reading...

Interesting response, thanks. The mention of fasting is interesting.

BTW Fasting can also affect healing - the Russians studied that* - and weight, e.g 5:2 diet - which helped me several years ago). There can be danger in excessive fasting though our American friends studied that, back in ,1920s or 1930d I think; they had a one or two very distressing and serious consequences - so care is advised.

*I seem to recall some more recent Western research of fasting helping with chemo - but consult a physician before trying that .

 

[J Campbell]

Isn't it more to do with CO2 produced/held than O2 available?. Hence risk of hyperventilation etc.

Yeah, the urge to breathe is controlled by CO2 levels. But for folks who compete, they learn to push through that urge and the thing that limits their breath hold is O2 levels. They train to hold until the moment before blackout. But for recreational divers and spearfishers, we are not wanting to get close to blackout, so hyper is bad.

 

[Jamsebrown]

Bigger lungs to hold more O2, slow metabolism that does not use much O2

I thought lung size correlates to the body’s oxygen needs

 

[J Campbell]

I thought lung size correlates to the body’s oxygen needs

Not really - unless you mean lung "size" is the amount of air you inhale/breathe. The amount you breathe in and out can vary - deep breath of shallow breath. But a small person ill usually have smaller "size" lungs than i large person.

 

[Jamsebrown]

Not really - unless you mean lung "size" is the amount of air you inhale/breathe. The amount you breathe in and out can vary - deep breath of shallow breath. But a small person ill usually have smaller "size" lungs than i large person.

Does that mean bigger people typically can hold their breath for longer times than smaller people? Or at least have a higher physical limit?

 

[J Campbell]

Does that mean bigger people typically can hold their breath for longer times than smaller people? Or at least have a higher physical limit?

I'm not sure about that.

 

[Jamsebrown]

I'm not sure about that.

What about people with larger lung capacities? Like someone with a wide ribcage compared to someone with a narrow one, or a man compared to a woman?

 

[adrian.u]

In your other discussion thread (on VO2Max) I already linked to some research that suggests a correlation, for trained apneists, between lung volume and breathhold duration, as well as between height and BHD (and the lung volume and height are probably fairly correlated, so...)

For completeness in this reply, here it is again:
Breath-hold diving performance factors

http://rua.ua.es/dspace/bitstream/10045/69552/1/jhse_Vol_12_N_3_582-592.pdf

Do you want more...?
Well, OK... you asked for it...

Size Matters: Spleen and Lung Volumes Predict Performance in Human Apneic Divers

Humans share with seals the ability to contract the spleen and increase circulating hematocrit, which may improve apneic performance by enhancing gas storage. Seals have large spleens and while human spleen size is small in comparison, it shows great ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

(The one above also notes the importance of spleen size, since it's an extra store of O2 - see extra article below...)

Forced vital capacity and not central chemoreflex predicts maximal hyperoxic breath-hold duration in elite apneists - PubMed

The determining mechanisms of a maximal hyperoxic apnea duration in elite apneists have remained unexplored. We tested the hypothesis that maximal hyperoxic apnea duration in elite apneists is related to forced vital capacity (FVC) but not the central chemoreflex (for CO₂). Eleven...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Physiology of static breath holding in elite apneists

https://physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/EP086269

(Above notes the importance of lung volume.)

Chemoreflex Control as the Cornerstone in Immersion Water Sports: Possible Role on Breath-Hold

Immersion water sports involve long-term apneas; therefore, athletes must physiologically adapt to maintain muscle oxygenation, despite not performing pulmonary ventilation. Breath-holding (i.e., apnea) is common in water sports, and it involves a decrease ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Having said all of that (or, rather, cited all of that...), I think one of the key things to note in the above is that they are typically working with trained apneists (as I already mentioned in the very first sentence).

Unfortunately, I think it is at this point where many of these things start to break down in practice...

When it comes to the rest of us mere mortals (rather than those who have spent years preparing, training, competing, pushing towards their limits), there are so many other confounding factors that come into play when we hold our breath that it becomes far more tricky to see clear correlations for each specific physiological/psychological/environmental/etc. feature you may want to pick.

I mean, even looking at the scatter in the plots for the first article I linked above (i.e. figures 1, 2 & 3, showing vital capacity against BHD, etc.), I'm struck by how much variation there is, even amongst competitive apneists - and I find it hard to believe it'd be anything other than even more so for the rest of us...

It basically means that, unless you are already a competitive breath-holder, who is working hard to find any possible (allowable!) way to train & maximise your BHD, there are too many factors to consider when comparing yourself against someone else around you who is in a roughly similar situation. In the end, the answer is that there will be numerous reasons someone else may or may not have a better BHD than you - and it could even vary quite noticeably from day to day!

I guess, then, the real questions in all of this are:
Why are you asking these questions?
What sort of answers are you hoping to discover?
And, even more relevant, what difference will those answers make to your own breath-holds?

---

Extra bonus article about the spleen:
Spleen volume and blood flow response to repeated breath-hold apneas

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/japplphysiol.00221.2003

 

[Jamsebrown]

In your other discussion thread (on VO2Max) I already linked to some research that suggests a correlation, for trained apneists, between lung volume and breathhold duration, as well as between height and BHD (and the lung volume and height are probably fairly correlated, so...)

For completeness in this reply, here it is again:
Breath-hold diving performance factors

http://rua.ua.es/dspace/bitstream/10045/69552/1/jhse_Vol_12_N_3_582-592.pdf

Do you want more...?
Well, OK... you asked for it...

Size Matters: Spleen and Lung Volumes Predict Performance in Human Apneic Divers

Humans share with seals the ability to contract the spleen and increase circulating hematocrit, which may improve apneic performance by enhancing gas storage. Seals have large spleens and while human spleen size is small in comparison, it shows great ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

(The one above also notes the importance of spleen size, since it's an extra store of O2 - see extra article below...)

Forced vital capacity and not central chemoreflex predicts maximal hyperoxic breath-hold duration in elite apneists - PubMed

The determining mechanisms of a maximal hyperoxic apnea duration in elite apneists have remained unexplored. We tested the hypothesis that maximal hyperoxic apnea duration in elite apneists is related to forced vital capacity (FVC) but not the central chemoreflex (for CO₂). Eleven...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Physiology of static breath holding in elite apneists

https://physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/EP086269

(Above notes the importance of lung volume.)

Chemoreflex Control as the Cornerstone in Immersion Water Sports: Possible Role on Breath-Hold

Immersion water sports involve long-term apneas; therefore, athletes must physiologically adapt to maintain muscle oxygenation, despite not performing pulmonary ventilation. Breath-holding (i.e., apnea) is common in water sports, and it involves a decrease ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Having said all of that (or, rather, cited all of that...), I think one of the key things to note in the above is that they are typically working with trained apneists (as I already mentioned in the very first sentence).

Unfortunately, I think it is at this point where many of these things start to break down in practice...

When it comes to the rest of us mere mortals (rather than those who have spent years preparing, training, competing, pushing towards their limits), there are so many other confounding factors that come into play when we hold our breath that it becomes far more tricky to see clear correlations for each specific physiological/psychological/environmental/etc. feature you may want to pick.

I mean, even looking at the scatter in the plots for the first article I linked above (i.e. figures 1, 2 & 3, showing vital capacity against BHD, etc.), I'm struck by how much variation there is, even amongst competitive apneists - and I find it hard to believe it'd be anything other than even more so for the rest of us...

It basically means that, unless you are already a competitive breath-holder, who is working hard to find any possible (allowable!) way to train & maximise your BHD, there are too many factors to consider when comparing yourself against someone else around you who is in a roughly similar situation. In the end, the answer is that there will be numerous reasons someone else may or may not have a better BHD than you - and it could even vary quite noticeably from day to day!

I guess, then, the real questions in all of this are:
Why are you asking these questions?
What sort of answers are you hoping to discover?
And, even more relevant, what difference will those answers make to your own breath-holds?

---

Extra bonus article about the spleen:
Spleen volume and blood flow response to repeated breath-hold apneas

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/japplphysiol.00221.2003

Thank you so much for another great answer! I just want to know who basically has physical advantages over me and who doesn’t.

I know it’s hard to know for sure since there isn’t a deliberate research about it, but by using some logic, we might can get close enough answers.