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What is packing, how do you do it, and how to equalize without hands?
- Thread starterdom12
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Re: What is packing, how do you do it? and how to equalise with out hands?
Search for BTV for the equalisation question - there are some great posts and some great advice on here and on the web, I seem to remember some from will trubridge. You mainly need to learn to open your e-tube voluntarily and the best advice I can give you is to make it a habit and keep doing it several times every day.
For the packing question I'll let others answer as I don't really think that it helps much unless you are an advanced diver
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Search for BTV for the equalisation question - there are some great posts and some great advice on here and on the web, I seem to remember some from will trubridge. You mainly need to learn to open your e-tube voluntarily and the best advice I can give you is to make it a habit and keep doing it several times every day.
For the packing question I'll let others answer as I don't really think that it helps much unless you are an advanced diver
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Re: What is packing, how do you do it? and how to equalise with out hands?
Packing is an advanced technique enabling a diver to push more air in his lungs. By swallowing air he can effectively overpressure load his lungs to contain - in some extreme cases- more than 40% extra. In freediving the pioneer of the the air pumping technique is Bob Croft.
Apart form looking ridicules or very professional, the advantages of a bigger air/O2 supply are: enabling longer dives* and easier equalisation at depth*.
Disadvantages are also present and actually more numerous than stated here:
Less relaxation, risk of packing BO, risk of lung damage.
*The longer dives are tampered by the added stress and muscle tension, higher HR etc.
*The easier equalisation at depth is relatively very limited, chest and diaphragm inward flexibility offers much bigger gains.
How to pack?
Basically it's learning how to swallow balls of air into your lungs. Using your tongue as a piston in concert with the cheeks and lips to push air into the lungs, usually after you filled up your lungs the regular way.
For a more in depth description, do a search here on DB, and look up Eric Fattah's excellent equalisation document (on his liquidvision website), to learn to control all the muscles involved.
"Packing" or Lung Packing is an advanced technique, so you better use your brain and senses and be careful about it.
Packing is an advanced technique enabling a diver to push more air in his lungs. By swallowing air he can effectively overpressure load his lungs to contain - in some extreme cases- more than 40% extra. In freediving the pioneer of the the air pumping technique is Bob Croft.
Apart form looking ridicules or very professional, the advantages of a bigger air/O2 supply are: enabling longer dives* and easier equalisation at depth*.
Disadvantages are also present and actually more numerous than stated here:
Less relaxation, risk of packing BO, risk of lung damage.
*The longer dives are tampered by the added stress and muscle tension, higher HR etc.
*The easier equalisation at depth is relatively very limited, chest and diaphragm inward flexibility offers much bigger gains.
How to pack?
Basically it's learning how to swallow balls of air into your lungs. Using your tongue as a piston in concert with the cheeks and lips to push air into the lungs, usually after you filled up your lungs the regular way.
For a more in depth description, do a search here on DB, and look up Eric Fattah's excellent equalisation document (on his liquidvision website), to learn to control all the muscles involved.
"Packing" or Lung Packing is an advanced technique, so you better use your brain and senses and be careful about it.
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Re: What is packing, how do you do it? and how to equalise with out hands?
having your hands free when your diving down is nice. It takes a bit of practice letting the pressure out freely but its not possible on all people. there are numerous differant ways to do it and it all depends on the person and your ability. im sure you have heard the saying practice makes perfect, but some people just have sinus or ear problems and will never be able to do it with out using there hands. I feel very fortunite to be able to clear with out using may hands to my nose but it took lots of work, ok to start maybe try this, close your mouth with your teeth touching like if you just bit something just dont flex your jaw. now prees your tounge to the roof of your mouth! did you feel it? practice makes perfect. once you are good at it and reconize the muscle you need to use you will eventually stop using your tounge. on the packing part i wouldnt recomend using this teq unless you are diving well over 30 meters or 100 feet. you should be able to dive to 30m easily with out lung packing if not then you really should practice the apnea tables first and once again everyones differant and theres lots of stuff to cover just do a little research remember deeperblue is your friend check the search. good luck with your clearing.
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Re: What is packing, how do you do it? and how to equalise with out hands?
Why do people always say that it is not possible for everybody?
What is your explanation for this statement?
I personally think BTV is hard to learn, but possible for nearly everybody.
Maybe other instructors can verify me:
When i teach i realize very often that a lot of sinus/ear problems come from a too big depth difference between the single equalizations and a resulting too big force that is necessary for each equalization. That stresses the ear/sinus.
BTV is the solution for this problem. And its not the other way around that the bad equalization in the first place which results in ear/sinus problems tells you you are not able to learn BTV.
For myself i realized i have very few ear problems since using BTV.
In case i have a small cold and tight sinuses i can still dive but have to be very careful and only use BTV. The pressure difference and also the effort to equalize is very small. In combination with the constant equalization it does not stress the already "vulnerable" sinuses.
About packing ... If i got it right there are already 5 cases of Lung Barotrauma after packing that happened in the freediving community. Careful!
Why do people always say that it is not possible for everybody?
What is your explanation for this statement?
I personally think BTV is hard to learn, but possible for nearly everybody.
Maybe other instructors can verify me:
When i teach i realize very often that a lot of sinus/ear problems come from a too big depth difference between the single equalizations and a resulting too big force that is necessary for each equalization. That stresses the ear/sinus.
BTV is the solution for this problem. And its not the other way around that the bad equalization in the first place which results in ear/sinus problems tells you you are not able to learn BTV.
For myself i realized i have very few ear problems since using BTV.
In case i have a small cold and tight sinuses i can still dive but have to be very careful and only use BTV. The pressure difference and also the effort to equalize is very small. In combination with the constant equalization it does not stress the already "vulnerable" sinuses.
About packing ... If i got it right there are already 5 cases of Lung Barotrauma after packing that happened in the freediving community. Careful!
Re: What is packing, how do you do it? and how to equalise with out hands?
Some very helpful information guys!
About the packing, that sounds very interesting, dont think i will try it as i only dive to about 110 ft and very rarely on some drop offs for fish and lobsters.
It sounds crazy dangerous, as you guys said "very advanced and risky" thanks for letting me know, will avoid until maybe become more experience and training to dive deeper.
As for the BTV i am still confused and fascinated!!
"close your mouth with your teeth touching like if you just bit something just dont flex your jaw. now press your tounge to the roof of your mouth! did you feel it?"
Thx for that tip igodeep, i dont quite feel anything..yet, takes while though doesnt it?
Am i supoosed to bite hard or just lightly touch my teeth together?
And also what muscles am i meant to be trying to feel or tense, move..etc?.. so i can maybe try and figure it out quicker.
Thx guys, information is bang on and great!
Some very helpful information guys!
About the packing, that sounds very interesting, dont think i will try it as i only dive to about 110 ft and very rarely on some drop offs for fish and lobsters.
It sounds crazy dangerous, as you guys said "very advanced and risky" thanks for letting me know, will avoid until maybe become more experience and training to dive deeper.
As for the BTV i am still confused and fascinated!!
"close your mouth with your teeth touching like if you just bit something just dont flex your jaw. now press your tounge to the roof of your mouth! did you feel it?"
Thx for that tip igodeep, i dont quite feel anything..yet, takes while though doesnt it?
Am i supoosed to bite hard or just lightly touch my teeth together?
And also what muscles am i meant to be trying to feel or tense, move..etc?.. so i can maybe try and figure it out quicker.
Thx guys, information is bang on and great!
Re: What is packing, how do you do it? and how to equalise with out hands?
About BTV, try the following: open your mouth as much as you can while keeping your lips closed. Do you hear any crackling sounds coming from your ears? If not, try moving your jaw left-right while your mouth is open and your lips closed. You should hear those sounds, indicating that the muscles at the opening of your e-tubes are opening. Practice that several times every day, until you can pretty much make that crackling sound at wil and with ease. It should be almost automatic once you have found the movement that works for you and you have trained the muscles. Keep at it, it might take a bit of time if it doesn't come naturally...
To check if your e-tubes are open (which is what you want when diving) do the following: start humming (mmmmmmmm sound) and you should feel the vibrations on your lips. Now while still humming, do the same process you've been practising to open your e-tubes and if the e-tubes open, all of a sudden you will feel the vibrations and sound loud on your ear drums. Probably only on one of the two ears first but keep practising and you will get both...
Once you get the above just practice opening your e-tubes in the water. I recommend not to try while decending vertically at first. Just dive 5-6m down at a gentle angle and focus on equalising hands free! Done!
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About BTV, try the following: open your mouth as much as you can while keeping your lips closed. Do you hear any crackling sounds coming from your ears? If not, try moving your jaw left-right while your mouth is open and your lips closed. You should hear those sounds, indicating that the muscles at the opening of your e-tubes are opening. Practice that several times every day, until you can pretty much make that crackling sound at wil and with ease. It should be almost automatic once you have found the movement that works for you and you have trained the muscles. Keep at it, it might take a bit of time if it doesn't come naturally...
To check if your e-tubes are open (which is what you want when diving) do the following: start humming (mmmmmmmm sound) and you should feel the vibrations on your lips. Now while still humming, do the same process you've been practising to open your e-tubes and if the e-tubes open, all of a sudden you will feel the vibrations and sound loud on your ear drums. Probably only on one of the two ears first but keep practising and you will get both...
Once you get the above just practice opening your e-tubes in the water. I recommend not to try while decending vertically at first. Just dive 5-6m down at a gentle angle and focus on equalising hands free! Done!
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there is also a document out:
Freediving Philippines - Download Section - BTV
but the document is a bit "too much" and actually the explanations above are very good and i think enough to learn BTV.
Freediving Philippines - Download Section - BTV
but the document is a bit "too much" and actually the explanations above are very good and i think enough to learn BTV.
Simos,
Thanks alot. Your humming advice is great. I have no problem opening my e-tubes, but can't keep them open to dive hands free. By humming, I can tell when they open and close and I am able to practice holding them open for longer periods of time. I'll practice and then try it out in water. I'll give everyone an update.
If anyone is having trouble opening thier e-tubes, send me a message and I'll reply with an easy to learn solution. I'm working on putting together some equalizing video tuturials. If the humming works for hands free, I'll include it.
Thanks again.
Thanks alot. Your humming advice is great. I have no problem opening my e-tubes, but can't keep them open to dive hands free. By humming, I can tell when they open and close and I am able to practice holding them open for longer periods of time. I'll practice and then try it out in water. I'll give everyone an update.
If anyone is having trouble opening thier e-tubes, send me a message and I'll reply with an easy to learn solution. I'm working on putting together some equalizing video tuturials. If the humming works for hands free, I'll include it.
Thanks again.
Re: What is packing, how do you do it? and how to equalise with out hands?
igodeep.
i tried to EQ. hands free and i couldn't , the question is there a certain depth for this kind of EQ. or just when you feel the pressure on ears??
i would like to EQ. without using my hands.
thanks.
igodeep.
i tried to EQ. hands free and i couldn't , the question is there a certain depth for this kind of EQ. or just when you feel the pressure on ears??
i would like to EQ. without using my hands.
thanks.
Re: What is packing, how do you do it? and how to equalise with out hands?
when i equalize hands free i have to equalize BEFORE i feel any pressure at all.
when i equalize hands free i have to equalize BEFORE i feel any pressure at all.
totally agree with wdaf - you need to almost constantly be equalising for BTV to work. If you can keep your e-tubes open continuously, even better.
TIP: it helps to do a pressurise your ears at the surface e.g. do a valsava equalisation the moment before you dive and also, try not to aggressively duck dive at first until you get it
also, if you feel any pressure/pain in the ears then just abort the dive - it's almost certainly too late to do BTV if you've reach that point.
TIP: it helps to do a pressurise your ears at the surface e.g. do a valsava equalisation the moment before you dive and also, try not to aggressively duck dive at first until you get it
also, if you feel any pressure/pain in the ears then just abort the dive - it's almost certainly too late to do BTV if you've reach that point.
Well, I tried equalizing hands free last weekend. The humming helped. I was able to dive 25 feet before I had to equalize. I still need to practice more with the humming. As a bonus, I was able to extend the depth between my normal equalizes. I now only equalize 2 or 3 times to get to 60 feet. I'm sure with practice I'll be able to increase that.
I found that for hands free, I had to start equallizing as soon as I started to dive. When I could feel that it was not working as much, I would relax and re-apply. Once I could not go any farther, I would equalize with my hand and start over as I continued my dive. I'll practice some more at home and try again this weekend.
Thanks for the help.
I found that for hands free, I had to start equallizing as soon as I started to dive. When I could feel that it was not working as much, I would relax and re-apply. Once I could not go any farther, I would equalize with my hand and start over as I continued my dive. I'll practice some more at home and try again this weekend.
Thanks for the help.
Well done, great progress.. You might get stuck a bit around 20ft (I had the same). The key is to pre-pressurise at the surface before the dive, duck dive less aggressively and start equalising really early. You need to equalise a couple of times even during the duck dive, the first couple of meters are really important... Don't forget that if you are starting to feel the pain on your ears around 20ft, it means that probably you missed an equalisation somewhere in the first 10th so really work on that.
When I do it I almost equalise all the time, I would say maybe 2-3 times per second. After you get it you can probably do a bit less.
The second factor for me was to really relax, especially during the duck dive. BTV needs extra relaxation and I hadn't realised how aggressively I was duck diving and how stressed my muscles were during the duck dive. Practice a smooth entry without even a duck dive if you can, perhaps pull yourself down a rope at first. You can even try descending on a rope feet first and focusing on equalising...
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When I do it I almost equalise all the time, I would say maybe 2-3 times per second. After you get it you can probably do a bit less.
The second factor for me was to really relax, especially during the duck dive. BTV needs extra relaxation and I hadn't realised how aggressively I was duck diving and how stressed my muscles were during the duck dive. Practice a smooth entry without even a duck dive if you can, perhaps pull yourself down a rope at first. You can even try descending on a rope feet first and focusing on equalising...
Posted via Mobile Device
i still dont understand it..
i tried controlling my throat and soft pallete, practiced it for a long while, couldint get the hang of it, tried moving my jaw around and the only clicking i heard was from some bone at the back of my jaw.
do you think maybe im jus tone of those people that will never be able to do it, or do i just need to somehow understand th epractice better and practice it more?
Dom.
i tried controlling my throat and soft pallete, practiced it for a long while, couldint get the hang of it, tried moving my jaw around and the only clicking i heard was from some bone at the back of my jaw.
do you think maybe im jus tone of those people that will never be able to do it, or do i just need to somehow understand th epractice better and practice it more?
Dom.
dom12
its the same here couldn't make it, my instructor have told me that i cannot do it very easily because he was experienced that method since he was a kid so surely he can manage it in very deep, but am not going to stop trying until i can do it, kind of encouraging !!
I intend to try that through a rope.. maybe it will be much easier.. will see.
Salah
its the same here couldn't make it, my instructor have told me that i cannot do it very easily because he was experienced that method since he was a kid so surely he can manage it in very deep, but am not going to stop trying until i can do it, kind of encouraging !!
I intend to try that through a rope.. maybe it will be much easier.. will see.
Salah
Wow that is encouraging Salah!
I don't want to stop trying either, just not getting any where with the techniques I'm trying.
What techniques are you practising? Let me know how they are working withh you and your progress.
And yes I am going to use a rope from now on to make it easier, the marine park in front my house has a buoy tied down at about 25 or 30 ft at a slight angle not quite completely vertical.
Dom.
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I don't want to stop trying either, just not getting any where with the techniques I'm trying.
What techniques are you practising? Let me know how they are working withh you and your progress.
And yes I am going to use a rope from now on to make it easier, the marine park in front my house has a buoy tied down at about 25 or 30 ft at a slight angle not quite completely vertical.
Dom.
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I am just a beginner in Apnea but i used to spearfish in the Arabian Gulf, i reached 30m and my new aim is 40m regarding to our max. depth in the gulf its not that deep.
i used a simple Tech. which is " the more you get relaxed the best you can reach"
but in hands free this would be another tech.so my conclusion everyone has a different way of Tech. imagine all buddies here were explained their experience and am going to follow that.
i envy you in having the marine park close to you while am using the pool 6m deep.
Good luck mate.
Salah
i used a simple Tech. which is " the more you get relaxed the best you can reach"
but in hands free this would be another tech.so my conclusion everyone has a different way of Tech. imagine all buddies here were explained their experience and am going to follow that.
i envy you in having the marine park close to you while am using the pool 6m deep.
Good luck mate.
Salah