What vacuum muzzle guns are available off the shelf?

[tromic]

So it seems to me no rocking of the slider is possible in muzzle - the slider fits into the muzzle with very low tolerances.
That is good for reliable sealing and precise shooting, but one must be very careful not to bow the shaft during loading..
That is what I dislike...

 

[Diving Gecko]

HELP NEEDED FOR SPREADSHEET
I made a spreadsheet for vacuum muzzle comparisons and added it to my first post, but it is still incomplete so if you have any of the missing pieces please let know:

• Barrel sizes for Pelengas muzzle?
• Type of shock absorber for Pelengas muzzle, Delrin with PU or 100% PU?
• Weight of the Pelengas muzzle?
• Anything else you see missing or worth adding or any errors?

 

[Nico66]

HELP NEEDED FOR SPREADSHEET
I made a spreadsheet for vacuum muzzle comparisons and added it to my first post, but it is still incomplete so if you have any of the missing pieces please let know:

• Barrel sizes for Pelengas muzzle?
• Type of shock absorber for Pelengas muzzle, Delrin with PU or 100% PU?
• Weight of the Pelengas muzzle?
• Anything else you see missing or worth adding or any errors?

Pelengas kit are made for 11mm 13mm ans 11,99mm barrels .

- shock absorbers are in PU (very little Sound, but u havé To change it fréquently.
Pelengas muzzle is very light : about 45/46g (for 13mm. Very light in thé water (more than salvimar kit (47/48g for 13mm barrel).
And it fits seac/mares/cressi/pelengas/omer barrels.
Unfortunately, it seems it is hard to find spares parts nowadays. Pelengas is focusing on the new carbon fiber gun....

 

[Diving Gecko]

Pelengas kit are made for 11mm 13mm ans 11,99mm barrels .

- shock absorbers are in PU (very little Sound, but u havé To change it fréquently.
Pelengas muzzle is very light : about 45/46g (for 13mm. Very light in thé water (more than salvimar kit (47/48g for 13mm barrel).
And it fits seac/mares/cressi/pelengas/omer barrels.
Unfortunately, it seems it is hard to find spares parts nowadays. Pelengas is focusing on the new carbon fiber gun....

Thanks for that info, will add it tomorrow.
So, no Delrin in the shock absorber? Just the piston hitting a sleeve of PU? I think I have seen 2 sleeves in pics of guns, so I guess the durability issue is why they give you extras to start with. I guess Dima, whom the cloned, is still the only guy who can make a shock absorber which can take some punishment...
Are you sure they make a version for Seac, too? Remember that Seac has a different front thread than Mares/Cressi/Salvi.
When you say 12mm barrel, you mean the "Russian" stainless steel barrels? I think they might be 14mm in OD, but don't know what thread they use. Sometimes they sleeve them with 18mm alu tubes, but I don't know if Palengas does that.

I hope they get their CF gun underway, there's plenty of room for improvement in the traditional oleo and CF will, even if not needed, probably create a bit of buzz.

 

[popgun pete]

This is the kit muzzle that was showing on the Pelengas website when it was still up,

 

[Diving Gecko]

This is the kit muzzle that was showing on the Pelengas website when it was still up,
View attachment 54683

Yeah, that's the one I remember seeing, but it looked to be old, so just wanted to check if it was still made this way. E.g. STC has changed their design to have a more sturdy Delrin component in later versions.

 

[popgun pete]

Only presence on the Net seems to be https://speargun.shop/pc. There is the Pelengas Store on eBay which may be the same entity. No muzzle kits on offer at the moment. Actually looking a bit closer there is this unit. https://speargun.shop/spearfishing-speargun-accessories/Pnevmo vacuum kit for Mares Cyrano. Original Cyrano, not the later Evo.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Only presence on the Net seems to be https://speargun.shop/pc. There is the Pelengas Store on eBay which may be the same entity. No muzzle kits on offer at the moment. Actually looking a bit closer there is this unit. https://speargun.shop/spearfishing-speargun-accessories/Pnevmo vacuum kit for Mares Cyrano. Original Cyrano, not the later Evo.
View attachment 54684

Is the original Cyrano 11mm and would it work with Sten 11mm muzzles?


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[popgun pete]

Is the original Cyrano 11mm and would it work with Sten 11mm muzzles?


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Yes, it should fit the alloy inner barrel thread for the 11 mm guns, however the back of the muzzle has to sit on the end of the plastic nose cone. In the Evo the muzzle rear fits into a socket in the nose cone and that may be why it cannot be used there.

 

[Nico66]

Thanks for that info, will add it tomorrow.
So, no Delrin in the shock absorber? Just the piston hitting a sleeve of PU? I think I have seen 2 sleeves in pics of guns, so I guess the durability issue is why they give you extras to start with. I guess Dima, whom the cloned, is still the only guy who can make a shock absorber which can take some punishment...
Are you sure they make a version for Seac, too? Remember that Seac has a different front thread than Mares/Cressi/Salvi.
When you say 12mm barrel, you mean the "Russian" stainless steel barrels? I think they might be 14mm in OD, but don't know what thread they use. Sometimes they sleeve them with 18mm alu tubes, but I don't know if Palengas does that.

I hope they get their CF gun underway, there's plenty of room for improvement in the traditional oleo and CF will, even if not needed, probably create a bit of buzz.

This is a picture of shock absorbers.

I am sure there is a seac asso/Hunter version. I had one on my 135 hybride, that i have replaced by a Dima’s kit

 

[Diving Gecko]

I like the idea of soft non-Delrin shock absorbers but I think most of them can’t be run at very high pressures. I busted the older version from STC, and I think my Evo-Air one developed a crack (can’t recall in detail) and you say the Pelengas ones don’t last long. That’s kinda annoying as they can’t be visually inspected and you have to depressurize the gun to change them.


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[Nico66]

I like the idea of soft non-Delrin shock absorbers but I think most of them can’t be fun at very high pressures. I busted the older version from STC, and I think my Evo-Air one developed a crack (can’t recall in detail) and you say the Pelengas ones don’t last long. That’s kinda annoying as they can’t be visually inspected and you have to depressurize the gun to change them.


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Yes this is annoying. But there is a tips: it possible to add a stainless flat washer and thé shock absorbers can resist longer. I have not tried myself but friends of mine did and it works

 

[Diving Gecko]

Yes this is annoying. But there is a tips: it possible to add a stainless flat washer and thé shock absorbers can resist longer. I have not tried myself but friends of mine did and it works

That makes sense but if you add it to the rear, you loose the sound dampening effect of the “naked” PU.
Personally, I think if you run higher pressures, you need to sacrifice sound dampening for better durability and that seems to mean you have to have a Delrin or metal shock absorber (or your SS washer trick).


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[popgun pete]

Looks like they added some castellation’s to the polyurethane shock absorber washers as earlier they were smooth ended. There is a combination of soft and firmer washers, the firmer one is the piston anvil and the softer one sits in front of it. The earlier guns have two washers and the later "Magnum" versions have three with the muzzle being slightly longer than before. I have the "Magnum 70" as I waited for "Pelengas" to get rid of the bugs in the first version of those guns.

Actually I bought a spares kit for the "Magnum" and I think it had a spare polyurethane washer, so I must check.

 

[popgun pete]

Just found the kit and the polyurethane washer (only one in the kit) is just like the ones you have, the kit contains "O" rings, a spare vacuum cuff, a spare piston and a totally irrelevant white plastic line release arm and pivot pin. The "Magnum" has a metal trigger and line release arm. I suspect that the odd "Pelengas" may bust its line release arm if out of adjustment and they give you a spare, the early guns have orange plastic line release levers.

 

[Diving Gecko]

I keep falling behind with this question but I was hoping someone could list any vacuumed or dry barrel guns that can be bought off the shelf....

Heya FF,
Any chance you can let me edit this post again:

What vacuum muzzle guns are available off the shelf?

I keep falling behind with this question but I was hoping someone could list any vacuumed or dry barrel guns that can be bought off the shelf....

forums.deeperblue.com

I have since updated the spreadsheet and it pretty much as complete as I can make it now, but it would make sense to have it at the top of the thread.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Duh!
Only now, do I realize I misread the OP's question... He was asking for Vacuum Muzzled Guns... not just the muzzles themselves. All my rambling was abhou aftermarket muzzles. So, so sorry guys.

Well, I guess for guns:

• Salvimar Predathor Vuoto (and Darkside)
• Pelengas
• LGSub Manilu Revolution
• Sporasub One Air
• Omer Airbalete Black (supposedly you can specify it to come with a dry muzzle)
• Omer Air XII (supposedly you can specify it to come with a dry muzzle)
• Omer Airbalete 12 Dry (I see it on some webshops but in none of the last 3 years of catalogues)

Perhaps some other Russian/Ukranian ones like the Taimen which may or may not be a challenge to actually order.

 

[foxfish]

Thanks for all your replies, I get pms all the time asking me questions rather than folk actually posting on the forum!
Anyway there is one guys who is always asking about dry barrels and vacuum guns but doesn’t want to make a post, hopefully he is also reading all your replies.
Personally I am considering buying a new gun and wanted to make sure I get the best available so I am interested in any opinions about any of the shop bought vacuumed guns available....

 

[Diving Gecko]

Thanks for all your replies, I get pms all the time asking me questions rather than folk actually posting on the forum!
Anyway there is one guys who is always asking about dry barrels and vacuum guns but doesn’t want to make a post, hopefully he is also reading all your replies.
Personally I am considering buying a new gun and wanted to make sure I get the best available so I am interested in any opinions about any of the shop bought vacuumed guns available....

I tend to think not much has happened in performance for a long while.
As for value, I still consider the Predathor the best deal. It may leak on less than 6.75mm shafts, freeshafts wont be supported that well, the shorter versions are a tad heavy, the vac seal should be replaced once in a while and you should get a better slider than what it ships with . But all that said, still the best bang for the buck in my opinion. The insides of the gun, apart from the muzzle, hasn't changed in 40 years, though.
On that same note, I think LGSub missed a handful of tricks when they designed their gun as it is simply nothing but a facelifted, traditional oleo made out of nicer materials. But it wont shoot any better than the others. And it hurts my brain when I have seen videos of people adding extra flotation to the shorter versions. When you design a gun from scratch with CAD, this simply shouldn't have happened.
Let's see if Pelengas will make the same mistake on their new CF gun of not pushing the envelope but only the looks. At the very least, it shouldn't be that hard to make a reverse trigger and still, none of the big companies have done it. I truly believe there's room for a disruptive gun in the market, but I don't see anyone looking to make it.
Well, I guess the Dreamair comes closest and news might be on the way soon on that front.

 

[foxfish]

I also find it a little disappointing that gun designs are so basic and unchanged, I still use my 15 year old Omer 90 and 12 year old Asso 115 both with Tromic muzzles.
They both still work ok but looking a bit tatty.