What would make Your diving experience better?

[FinnFin]

I am an entrepreneur with background in competitive freediving and military technical scuba diving. I have encountered several issues while diving that I think could be improved, and I am working on some innovations to address those.

However, I would like to hear the opinions also from other divers: what would make Your diving experience better? Feel free to post both high-level aspirations (e.g. “I would like to have longer dive times”) or more specified issues (e.g. “My wet suit arm pit stitching tends to come loose”).

I do not want to steer or limit the responses by explaining yet the product innovations I am working on. Instead, I am eager to see how often and with what priority the problems I am working on are mentioned in your responses, and how I should prioritize certain development alternatives I have on the table. Also this way your responses could help other entrepreneurs and companies identify further innovation opportunities.

I have opened similar discussion threads in DeeperBlue’s scuba, spear and freedive forums, so please check also those in case you are involved in those different dive types.

 

[J Campbell]

More choices in dive masks - perhaps the same model of a mask coming in different sizes. More comfortable mouth pieces in snorkels - thinner , softer.

 

[DRW]

Availability of a particular model of mask in different sizes has my vote too. There is an historical precedent. In 1946, Italy’s Cressi diving equipment company sold a range of differently sized and priced underwater masks. The "Sirena" model came in three versions, namely "Tipo A misura piccola", "Tipo B misura media o normale" and "Tipo C misura grande." Though inexact, these parameters "Small", "Medium / Normal" and "Large” would have helped buyers come to a more informed decision when selecting a mask to fit a particular facial profile:

Failing this, I would love to see greater transparency when it comes to the inclusion of mask dimensional measurements in product descriptions. What's wrong with letting customers know the skirt width and height to help them decide whether a mask is likely to match their facial profile? It's a no-brainer in Japanese diving mask retailing, so why don't their Western counterparts follow suit?

As for snorkels, smoother, softer mouthpieces would indeed be a good thing. The June 1991 edition of DIN 7878A, the German Standard on snorkels, required snorkel mouthpieces to have a smoother finish and a hardness rating of no greater than 80 Shore A. The same Standard envisages two classes of snorkel, one for adults and one for children, the latter not exceeding 30 cm in length and 120 cc in inner volume. The current European Standard on snorkels, EN 1972:2015, maintains the two classes in the interests of respiratory safety, yet very few retailers or manufacturers here in the West choose to provide any information about the length and internal diameter of the snorkels they sell.

In the case of fins, a size range of, say, 10-12 is too little information to have when judging how well a particular model is likely to fit. For one thing, it tells us nothing about the width of the foot pockets. German Standard DIN 7876 of 1980 required all compliant fins to be embossed with the foot length and foot width in millimetres. Sadly, too many manufacturers chose to ignore this opportunity to help purchasers make up their minds when choosing fins for size.

So I'm asking for better and more detailed specifications and data from manufacturers and retailers of underwater swimming equipment. I'd also like greater clarity when designating what materials are used to make the gear we buy and use. And an element of choice when it comes to those materials wouldn't hurt either.

 

[FinnFin]

So I'm asking for better and more detailed specifications and data from manufacturers and retailers of underwater swimming equipment. I'd also like greater clarity when designating what materials are used to make the gear we buy and use. And an element of choice when it comes to those materials wouldn't hurt either.

Thanks DRW for these comments. Few clarifying questions still on the last point you mentioned:
- Regarding better specification / data: do you mean only the sizes or something else also?
- What in particular are you interested in the materials used: do you want to know the 'list of ingredients', or are you e.g. interested in the materials' eco-friendliness or durability under diving conditions (water, salt, UV, pressure...)?
-What kind of choice would you be intersted in the materials: visuals like color or customization, specific performance (e.g. tolerance for high pressure) or something else?

 

[DRW]

- Regarding better specification / data: do you mean only the sizes or something else also?

At present I'm just after greater international standardisation of the information given when describing masks, snorkels and fins in catalogues and on retail websites. I'd settle for the basic dimensions in mm:

• Mask: width × height × depth; skirt width × height.
• Snorkel: height and internal diameter and/or internal volume.
• Fins: outer length × outer width × outer height; inner length × inner width.

This said, some additional measurements would be welcome, e.g.:

• Mask: horizontal vision (angle°); vertical vision (angle°); weight (g); hardness (Shore)/
• Snorkel: mouthpiece size (mm); mouthpiece hardness (Shore); snorkel weight (g).
  
• Fins: blade inclination (angle°); buoyancy (positive/neutral/negative), weight (g); pocket / blade hardness (Shore).

If the above sounds a little "over the top", then take a look at the Navy comparative evaluation of fins published in 1957, which required many more measurements to be made when comparing swim fins. Shoe sizes don't always equate to precise foot lengths when it comes to fitting fins.

- What in particular are you interested in the materials used: do you want to know the 'list of ingredients', or are you e.g. interested in the materials' eco-friendliness or durability under diving conditions (water, salt, UV, pressure...)?

I'm not looking for the exact "recipe" of the materials used to make masks, fins and snorkels. I respect the argument from manufacturers that the ingredients and their proportions are a commercial secret. However, I share the frustration of the writer of the 1957 fin comparative evaluation report when he rails against the misuse of the word "rubber" to mean any kind of elastomer, synthetic or otherwise. Online I've seen the word "rubber" used to describe urethane, PVC and silicone as well as natural and butyl rubber. As an oldie, I expect "rubber" to be a product of a rubber plantation in, say, Malaysia, rather than a by-product of petroleum. What I am looking for is greater precision when stating what an item of diving gear is made of. If it's made of silicone, PVC, urethane or neoprene, say so and don't use expressions such as "silicone rubber" unless it's a compound of silicone and natural/synthetic rubber. If the rubber is tapped from a tree, say so and call it "natural rubber" and to quote your terms, I like to think that substance is more "eco-friendly" as well.

-What kind of choice would you be intersted in the materials: visuals like color or customization, specific performance (e.g. tolerance for high pressure) or something else?

It's hard to think in the abstract without a particular product in mind. I'm a traditionalist when it comes to masks, snorkels and fins and my personal preference is for a rubber-skirted mask, a rubber-mouthpieced snorkel and all-rubber full foot fins because that's the kind that were available when I started snorkelling in the late 1950s and I see no point in changing; I'm not alone with this preference as all-rubber fins are the only fins made in Japan and they have proved very popular in the Far East. At the same time, I understand that many modern divers adore innovative materials and I respect their choice too. All I want is the option of a traditional material when a new product appears on the market. As for colour, I do like equipment to be available in colours other than black, but I don't like wetsuits with multicoloured panels because the result looks like a Harlequin outfit; yes, I do realise that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", but as a traditionalist I don't like busy or overengineered design. I'm a big fan of simplicity.

You mention performance under particular conditions, and this does indeed matter. In older ads I recall reports about successful testing of, say, a diving suit down to a particular depth and this information is really useful. I would also welcome printed advice about using, maintaining and storing equipment to extend service life. I would also welcome evidence that manufacturers take account of current national and international standards for fins, masks and snorkels; I am convinced that many companies ignore such standards instead of complying with them in the interests of their customers!

 

[Pinniped72]

Sensible freediving and spearfishing suit sizes off the peg. Off the peg suit sizes seem bizarre to me, they assume that as you get taller you become fatter, it makes no sense at all. I would say that a spearo or freediver is likely to be in reasonable shape at worst but suit manufacturers don't seem to think so, I am tall, 6'5", weigh 85 - 90 Kg and have a 34" waist. O'Neil can do it with their surf suits, LT(Large Tall) so why cant Omer, Cressi, Mares etc to name but a few? My Cressi suit is great quality and the height is ok for me but there is just too much neoprene around my abdomen. I think it would be great if manufacturers surveyed sites like this and asked us water lovers to provide our sizes, most would participate I would say as its in everyone's interests to be able to get off the peg suits in the right size. It would be a great way for manufacturers to tailor their suits to the customers that purchase them.

Industry standardised scientifically measured stiffness of fins to make comparison possible. Currently when buying fins you are relying on subjective reviews by others who may have weaker or stronger legs than you and / or better technique. We can go into space, there must be a way of measuring and providing this information.

That's it for now

 

[tc4ester]

I'm not sure if others have covered this yet or not but an improvement on footpockets. It seems like the full foot rubber pocket has been around forever and hasn't been improved upon. Maybe more in the way of manufacturers offering differing width sizes in their pockets or a custom foot pocket that would worth with a wide variety of blades. Maybe even getting away from rubber footpockets all together. I have read somewhere of people using cycling shoes and bolting those to the fin blades. That option is pretty rudimentary but maybe a change in the right direction.

That's my 2 cents

 

[William Freeman]

This has probably been said before, but I'd like a decent vibration on my dive watch, in my case an Aeris/Oceanic F10V3. I have alarms set at 10m, 15m, 20m but I've never heard them in the water and I'm always too preoccupied to keep looking at the display to check how deep I am. Sound is muffled wearing a tight hood (3mm and 5mm) anyway, and if I'm diving in cold waters I use vented Doc's Pro Plugs, so that muffles additionally. Yes, vibration would be good. That would be a game changer for me. If a manufacturer added vibration I would buy that watch.

 

[octopus]

This has probably been said before, but I'd like a decent vibration on my dive watch, in my case an Aeris/Oceanic F10V3. I have alarms set at 10m, 15m, 20m but I've never heard them in the water and I'm always too preoccupied to keep looking at the display to check how deep I am. Sound is muffled wearing a tight hood (3mm and 5mm) anyway, and if I'm diving in cold waters I use vented Doc's Pro Plugs, so that muffles additionally. Yes, vibration would be good. That would be a game changer for me. If a manufacturer added vibration I would buy that watch.

Put it under the hood and you'll hear it. Vertical position at the back of the head, strap in the direction of spine, mask straps around it. You can additionally set surface time alarm.

 

[William Freeman]

Hi Octopus, yes I've tried that in different variations. I find it uncomfortable having something under my hood and I almost lost it once when I tried that and flooded my hood. I also like to "see" my surface time because I usually talk to my buddy on the surface, so I would probably miss that alarm too. Of course, I could buy a second watch and attach it to my mask strap at the side, which I have seen done. The drag would be minimal but It's not such an important issue as to invest in a second watch. I spoke to someone from Mares at the Boat and diving show in Düsseldorf earlier this year and he told me they are working on something. I'm sure others are too as this is something alot of divers complain about. Of course, louder alarms could be a solution but for obvious reasons spearfishers couldn't use them. For me it's only an issue when doing CWT and equalizing often. I wear my watch on the inside wrist so it's not a problem seeing the display on FIM for instance.
I'll just wait.

 

[Kray]

Solutions to see underwater . Liquid goggle doesn't have option for corrective lens, I don't wear contact lens these days. Or auto equalize mask, imagine a diving mask that has some air stored in a small airbag strapped under the rubber strap. Or noseclip that works with mask. I know omer gave it a try but many say it ain't work. Or maybe a small airbag to plug into the noses and auto equalize ear/sinus of users.

A good solution to signal buddy on deep dive. Let's say I got tangled so bad at 80m,what can I do to tell my buddy . Maybe a flash light , or a button on wetsuit to release a sonar signal to the buoy ?

Heated wetsuit , so it does not need 7mm closed cell. Making 1.5mm with some inside underwater heater that can be charged from solar panel on buoy.

 

[Rock Shooter]

Heated wetsuit , so it does not need 7mm closed cell. Making 1.5mm with some inside underwater heater that can be charged from solar panel on buoy.

Heated wetsuit? I thought the solution was a little bit of water works , if you get what I mean!

 

[Kray]

Well, maybe buoy that have a gallon compartment of water whoch is heated by solar panel , ao we can keep drinking hot water and releasing them to heat the suit

 

[Rock Shooter]

Well, maybe buoy that have a gallon compartment of water whoch is heated by solar panel , ao we can keep drinking hot water and releasing them to heat the suit

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Sorry - I'm pretty new to the site and couldn't find the spearfishing section you mention. Could you invent something that would look after my kids and keep the wife happy so I can dive more?

 

[Aerwyna]

More choices in dive masks - perhaps the same model of a mask coming in different sizes. More comfortable mouth pieces in snorkels - thinner , softer.

Agreed I wish Aqualung would continue making the Falco Mask

 

[Kodama]

Could you design an app that increases visibility at a specific location?


Sent from the abyss

 

[Davos]

Could you design an app that increases visibility at a specific location?


Sent from the abyss

I was just about to ask for a freediving app that shows a forecast for swell, visibility, water temp, currents etc. But most visibility, nothing worse than heading out when the conditions seem okay but the vis sucks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kodama]

I was just about to ask for a freediving app that shows a forecast for swell, visibility, water temp, currents etc. But most visibility, nothing worse than heading out when the conditions seem okay but the vis sucks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Check out the windy app it does most of that except for visibility.
For all clarity I would like an app to 'control' visibility.


Sent from the abyss

 

[ronscuba]

.....

Industry standardised scientifically measured stiffness of fins to make comparison possible. Currently when buying fins you are relying on subjective reviews by others who may have weaker or stronger legs than you and / or better technique. We can go into space, there must be a way of measuring and providing this information.

That's it for now

I think the big problem preventing this from happening is people mix blades and pockets from different manufacturers. The footpocket/tendons stiffness combines with the blade stiffness to create an overall stiffness.

Plus, blade design is not all the same. Blade thickness can vary along it's length making the tip more flexible. So you could have a blade that is stiff in the middle but soft at the tip, stiff along the whole length, soft along the whole length. Now add in the stiffness options of the footpocket/tendons and you get too many combinations to make an industry standard.

Revan posted a good theory a while back stating he thought very flexible tips were best. He theorized the tip does not generate force, it just directs where the water goes. Tips that are stiff will direct water downward/upward instead of directly behind the diver.

Sound like a valid theory and maybe combining a soft blade with footpockets with stiff tendons would work well.