where is Herbert?

[honestguy]

Hi all, i've been trying to find out about Herbert lately and i couldn't find much about.
Despite the amount of media covering before his no limits dive i cannot find a decent update on his health status since he was recovered in the hospital.
I have a feelings those informations are kept confidential for many good reasons but i cannot believe there is no interest from the community and no one around here knows much about it.
Also i think this is another example why records attempts should be made under a federation, if that was an AIDA attempts then info would be available right now.
Also, i believe there might be a huge sponsor influence on the way the all incidents has been dealt with, as if sponsor doesn't want its name to be associated with such an attempts.
Does anyone knows more and care to share?

 

[trux]

The most information I could find was in the German Stern TV report. It is almost 20 minutes long and reveals more details than anything else till now. If you understand some German I highly recommend watching it. But even if you don't, the video shows and describes in much clearer details the assisted surfacing, the redescending for deco, the resurfacing and the transport.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=4069899836000

There is then a long discussion with Herbert's German doctor and with the team speaker. They did not want to reveal much, but it was apparent the situation is not as excellent as it might have looked from the official PR.

However, the report already around a month old, so no up-to-date information either. There are no news anywhere on Herbert's websites, blogs, or Facebook pages.

 

[Rik]

Well, even if the attempt was under AIDA regulation, an athlete would still have the same privacy rights compared to anyone else who would get into the hospital. Only Herbert or his estate would have the right to release information about his well being, and there is no other law or claim that we freedivers could use to force them to release information.

We should also be reminded that the freedive community won't give him him any financial support in dealing with his ailment, so there could be very well thought out reasons why he or his estate would withheld information.

Finally, I think that the most important reason why the community didn't respond to the silence, was that the experienced divers would get a lot of information based the subtext of the messages surrounding the incident. I think most of them will have an pretty good idea about what happened, but no-one wants, or dare too, discuss their deductions, because it would be still be speculation which wouldn't help anyone. Especially not Herbert himself.

After searching on the internet, I found the following message of the father of Herbert Nitsch, dated 19-07-2012 21:37
(source: http://www.herbertnitsch.com/blog/news-of-herbert/)

Bitte gönnt Herbert und mir nach dem Stress der ersten ‘Tage und Wochen ein wenig ‘Ruhe. Es geht Herbert wirklich jeden Tag ein Stück besser, aber es sind kleine Schritte und seine völlige Wiederherstellung wird wohl noch einige Zeit dauern. Derzeit ist er auf Rehabilitation

Medienberichte, wonach Herbert in Lebensgefahr schwebt(e), entbehren jeder Grundlage. Es war ein Unfall mit ernsten Folgeerscheinungen, aber Ärzte und Betreuer von Herbert sind sicher, dass er auf Grund seiner körperlichen Fitness und mentalen Kraft keine bleibenden Schäden davontragen wird.

Die Anteilnahme von vielen Freunden, Bekannten, Apnoe-Kollegen und Medien ist riesig. Es ist uns unmöglich individuell zu antworten und es gibt auch nicht täglich Neues zu berichten. Herbert wird zu einem geeigneten Zeitpunkt mit seinem eigenen Statement an die Öffentlichkeit treten. Bis dahin halten wir ihm für seine vollständige Rehabilitation die Daumen.

Gerhard Nitsch
(Vater von Herbert)

Translation by me, since I am not an native german speaker, I would really like it if other people could check my translation.

Please give Herbert and me after the stress of the first ' days and weeks a little ' peace. He is doing better every day, but the improvements are in small steps and his complete recovery will take time. He is currently on rehabilitation. Any reports that would suggest that Herbert's life is still in danger are unfounded. It was an accident with serious consequences, but the physicians who treat Herbert are sure that he will make an complete recovery due to his physical fitness and mental strength.

The participation of many friends, acquaintances, apnea colleagues and media is huge. It is impossible to reply to everyone and it is not possible to gave an daily report of his progress. Herbert will appear with his own statement to the public at a convenient time. Until then we wish him the best for his full rehabilitation.

Gerhard Nitsch
(Herbert's father)

 

[mista fox]

Your translation ist great. Your German seems to be way better than my English

Any reports that would suggest that Herbert's life is still in danger are unfounded.

I think »schwebt(e)« includes that Herberts life is not nor was it at any time in danger.

 

[Rik]

I think »schwebt(e)« includes that Herberts life is not nor was it at any time in danger.

That would be consistent with earlier reports.

 

[honestguy]

Well, even if the attempt was under AIDA regulation, an athlete would still have the same privacy rights compared to anyone else who would get into the hospital. Only Herbert or his estate would have the right to release information about his well being, and there is no other law or claim that we freedivers could use to force them to release information.

I did not express myself correctly. I meant informations and details regarding the dive itself, off course Herbert has the right to privacy.

We should also be reminded that the freedive community won't give him him any financial support in dealing with his ailment, so there could be very well thought out reasons why he or his estate would withheld information.

I might be wrong but wouldn't having an official record be the solution to this?
Would AIDA, for example support Herbert if the attempt was done under its rules?

Finally, I think that the most important reason why the community didn't respond to the silence, was that the experienced divers would get a lot of information based the subtext of the messages surrounding the incident. I think most of them will have an pretty good idea about what happened, but no-one wants, or dare too, discuss their deductions, because it would be still be speculation which wouldn't help anyone. Especially not Herbert himself.

Agreed but to a certain extent, the community is not based only on experienced freediver.

After searching on the internet, I found the following message of the father of Herbert Nitsch, dated 19-07-2012 21:37
(source: NEWS OF HERBERT | Herbert Nitsch Blog)

CUT

Translation by me, since I am not an native german speaker, I would really like it if other people could check my translation.

Please give Herbert and me after the stress of the first ' days and weeks a little ' peace. He is doing better every day, but the improvements are in small steps and his complete recovery will take time. He is currently on rehabilitation. Any reports that would suggest that Herbert's life is still in danger are unfounded. It was an accident with serious consequences, but the physicians who treat Herbert are sure that he will make an complete recovery due to his physical fitness and mental strength.

The participation of many friends, acquaintances, apnea colleagues and media is huge. It is impossible to reply to everyone and it is not possible to gave an daily report of his progress. Herbert will appear with his own statement to the public at a convenient time. Until then we wish him the best for his full rehabilitation.

Gerhard Nitsch
(Herbert's father)

Many thanks for the translation, really appreciated. Especially the bold part.

Thanks

HG

 

[trux]

I did not express myself correctly. I meant informations and details regarding the dive itself, off course Herbert has the right to privacy.

Well, the details are already pretty much known, so I am not sure what exactly you are interested in. Many details, including the video sequences of the surfacing are quite well described in the Stern TV report I linked in my previous post above.

Basically, according to the description in the SternTV report, Herbert reached the planned depth, but was physically assisted to the surface by the safety divers, was confused, not feeling well during the surfacing, did not make any OK sign (despite the opposite claims in the sponsor press release), had to be also assisted to take the O2 regulator, and quickly descended with O2 for 20 minutes of deco, but surfaced still feeling unwell and confused, grabbing his throat, and was then transported to the hospital. It is all shown and described in details in the video (though it is in German so you may need to ask someone for help if you don't speak German). I am afraid you would not get much more details even if the record was sanctioned by AIDA (unfortunately AIDA does not have the habit to systematically publish dive profiles and videos from competitions and record attempts)

 

[cebaztian]

I have heard that Herbert declined AIDA judges when their SUUNTO logos and depth watches clashed with Herberts sponsors.
As far as I know AIDA does not get any money from their Suunto deal, just the watches to be used at competitions and records. And probably support for the judge shirts.

I read this on Herberts site/blogg:
"Jules 03-09-2012, 05:30
Could you stop bullshitting people please? I know from the freediving community that Herbert has not recovered from his majo decompression accident and is like a vegetable now. What is the point of lying this much? There is no shame in telling the sad truth. Quite the contrary indeed, as it will stop other attempts which might be fatal this time."

Any truth in it?

Interested in these things since I am involved in sending someone very deep very soon.

Sebastian

 

[trux]

Well, the last news on Herb's facebook wall is from July 22, from his father:

NEWS OF HERBERT: A FEW WORDS FROM HIS FATHER

The sympathy of many friends, acquaintances, freedivers and media is overwhelming and we are thankful for it.

Right now, after these "initial" days and weeks of stress, Herbert and myself real...
ly need some peace of mind. Herbert is improving daily, but in small steps.

He is currently in rehabilitation, walking, talking, eating, smiling, riding an exercise bike, but altogether still recuperating from the dive.

It was an accident with serious consequences, and it will take a while to reach complete recovery. But Herbert's doctors are convinced, based on his overall fitness and mental strength, that he will not suffer any long term damage.

As much as we would like to, it is simply not possible for us to reply to each message individually or share daily news. Herbert will make his own statement in due time.

Up until then, we thank you all and keep crossing fingers for his full recovery.

Gerhard Nitsch, Herbert's father
See More

So, whatever the real state of Herbert is, it is clear that it was a serious accident. I'd tell more serious that the initial reports wanted to admit. So if you plan sending someone really deep, Seb, I suppose you realize DCS or barotrauma are very well possible, and do the maximum to mitigate the risks and also have the best possible plan B for the case something really goes wrong.

 

[mista fox]

News from Herbert:
BLACKOUT THROUGH NARKOSIS | Herbert Nitsch Blog

Looks like there will be an official statement…

 

[Rik]

Well, that's an remarkable statement, and I am certainly curious to read about his full story.

That said, I still think that deep dives like that of Herbert Nitsch are highly complicated and high risk dives, and might carry an serious risk for CAGE.

 

[ThomasB]

News from Herbert:
BLACKOUT THROUGH NARKOSIS | Herbert Nitsch Blog

Looks like there will be an official statement…

I understand that picture is a recent one (post dive) and in that case I'm very very happy to see it.

 

[kavachi]

as a serious freediver i find it strange and unethical that Herbert's condition and rehab/lack thereof has been kept from the public in such a thorough and calculated manner.

our Media and the Public must acknowledge that exposure of an event as Herbert's record attempt carries some responsibility to provide the whole story - in this case Herbert's recovery, along with the physiological factors which led to his injury.

NoLimits is such a dangerous pursuit, granted, but we all must acknowledge it is this experimental edge of freediving that sheds critical light on what we all do freediving - it's only through willing human guinea pigs like Herbert that those of us less rash/bold/driven can enjoy our lives in the deep blue with an element of safety and assurance.

Deeper Blue members - is there no reliable information out there about Herbert's current condition and the precise physiological factors that produced this accident?

 

[Mullins]

"Strange and unethical"? The fact Herbert is a very good freediver doesn't make him public property. If I ever have a bad injury I'll be the one to decide whether or not to tell the world about it, thanks.

 

[kavachi]

public property? not necessarily - but one has to acknowledge Herbert has been exemplary in courting the Media to leverage his record attempt - as would many of us faced with the same possibilities - and it is through this media engagement that most freedivers know of his attempt.

Thus the Media has been well and truly engaged from day one - come what may [lets face it NoLimits 800' is not a guaranteed success story] and hence my [and many others] interest in following Herbert's record attempt.

To thus engage the Media, only to completely leave hanging when the incident occurred, is not in the best interests of the freediving community. Avoiding the sensational tabloid media vultures is only reasonable, but as a freediver who uses weight-assisted descents I would like to know what happened to Herbert and how we might AVOID going through the same injuries he experienced

no?

 

[Mullins]

Cool - if you ever have an accident I'll be ringing the hospital demanding to know all the details. After all, it's in the best interests of the freediving community, and you have a responsibility to us.

How does his engagement with the media have any bearing on his responsibility to tell the world what happened? Because you're lacking closure now that it's piqued your interest?

 

[kavachi]

Mullins, it would seem i have somehow offended your ethical sensibilities - is safe diving not more important than individual bystanders' perceived sensibilities?

1. the incident occurred 6 months ago - i am by no means ringing the hospital.
2. i am by no means alone in the community of freedivers wishing to understand what happened to Herbert without going through the same unfortunate sequence of events
3. i am an active freediver in an extremely remote part of the world - the Media, and this excellent forum - are the only means I have to learn from the experiences of others in this amazing pursuit we share, hence my request to the Deeper Blue community to shed light on what went wrong

breathe!

 

[trux]

To certan extent I do agree with Kavachi. It is certainly important that the details are revealed, and that speculations are stopped. On the other hand I fully respect Herbert's privacy and his right to maximally recover before he starts speaking to the public. But that told, I really doubt the informational blackout was Herbert's decision. I suspect the facts are kept away from us on the request of the sponsor.

And in fact many people, including myself, do not ask as much the questions about what happened, but rather how Herb is doing these days, because we are worried, and would like to hear good news. And even if there are only bad news to announce, we would like to know them too, to be able to express our support or to try to help if that's possible.

However it is, I wish Herbert 100% recovery, and the minimal possible impact on his private and professional life. If he or his agent reveal all the known data and details about the accident, and about the progressing recovery, it will be certainly very much appreciated by the entire community.

 

[monkeyhatfork]

its not like everyone and they're mom is out attempting no-limits records while people maybe interested in what happened this situation has zero application to 99% of free divers. At that level of uncharted physiological territory its entirely possible they could still not have a 100% understanding of the whys and hows yet its not like u have a series of cases to study and compare against either

 

[Stephan Whelan]

I agree that informational should be released - it is a real shame that nothing has come out in any real detail till now. I believe in privacy and Herbert is entitled to it like anyone however I am disappointed that no further info has been released up till now so we can all learn from it.