Why the hate?

[l0keman]

Okay! thanks to the two people that actually had something to say about JBL with somewhat specific info and to the other 3 that said it's smarter to get a cheaper gun and use the remaining money for other things. I live in Biloxi MS in the Gulf of mexico. I figure I will spend the majority of the time diving on the oil rigs. They range from 30 feet deep to too deep and have 50+ feet vis suposedly. I have been trying to e-mail that guy Rigdvr with no luck. He knows all about it here. I guess from the posts I read I will be after 8-40 pound fish. I do have a 22 foot sailboat and would like the ability to spear off the islands in the shallower water. I have snorkeled in the area and seen many large flounder in 10 feet of water and other fish. Can you take a 3 band gun and shoot it well with just 1 band?

I want to know if the Gulf XHD would really live up to the specs? Do they shoot
30 feet? Do they have good punch? I am very rough with gear, so I am definately considering one. I can deal with a little noise, is it a LOT, though? Is it enough to scare the fish away more than 25% of the time? How bad is the weight issue? I mean, won't the weight just help me descend faster? Coming up will take the time i saved going down?

I know nothing about rigging, but this is what I think I have found from looking at pictures and such: I get a float... looking at the riffe 2 atmoshere, then attach a float line to it (I was thinking 50ft of bungie), then attach it to the gun, then the shaft is attached to the gun by a shock cord. Is this right?

 

[Fondueset]

Head on over to spearboard - lots of rig divers over there.

 

[josedesucre]

.... I have snorkeled in the area and seen many large flounder in 10 feet of water and other fish. Can you take a 3 band gun and shoot it well with just 1 band? .... I want to know if the Gulf XHD would really live up to the specs? Do they shoot 30 feet? ... Do they have good punch? ... I can deal with a little noise, is it a LOT, though? Is it enough to scare the fish away more than 25% of the time? ... How bad is the weight issue?

Let me try to answer some of your questions: 1) yes you can use only one or two of the three bands independently. Just let the unused bands under the barrel, and make sure they wont interfere with the line when you shoot. Now, if you are going to be fishing near a rig, in blue water, you should probably cock all of your bands all the time. 2) Shoot 30 feet? No. I dont thing any gun will do that, but you will never shot at anything thats more than 15 feet away anyhow, so don't worry much about it. The vast majority of your shots will be maximum 10/12 feet and the JBL packs more than enough punch for that. (I almost never shot at anything more than 6 feet away) 3) The noise is not really that bad, and the weight is not really an issue. You will get used to it. Good luck.

 

[Erik]

How bad is the weight issue? I mean, won't the weight just help me descend faster? Coming up will take the time i saved going down?

With all respect to Jose, a freediver does not want a gun that sinks when the shaft is in the fish and he's swimming to the surface. A neutral gun will float when the shaft is free, and not tangle in fins and float lines etc as you head for the surface... trust me on that one.
The heavy-nosed weight of these guns is also a problem if you're holding the gun horizontally for any length of time, and I am no weakling... it just starts to get annoying and affects your relaxation and concentration if you're waiting patiently holding the gun out. I found I'd inevitably end up 'rifling' the barrel with 2 hands.
I'd say go for a heavy wooden gun or a Riffe with the floats installed if you're concerned about durability... vastly superior machines. You are always restricted in any activity by the limitations of the tool, whether it's a gun, a motorbike, or a guitar.

After all that, JBL's are tough and reliable and you will still get lots of fish with them.

 

[feign]

With all respect to Jose, a freediver does not want a gun that sinks when the shaft is in the fish and he's swimming to the surface. A neutral gun will float when the shaft is free, and not tangle in fins and float lines etc as you head for the surface... trust me on that one.
The heavy-nosed weight of these guns is also a problem if you're holding the gun horizontally for any length of time, and I am no weakling... it just starts to get annoying and affects your relaxation and concentration if you're waiting patiently holding the gun out. I found I'd inevitably end up 'rifling' the barrel with 2 hands.
I'd say go for a heavy wooden gun or a Riffe with the floats installed if you're concerned about durability... vastly superior machines. You are always restricted in any activity by the limitations of the tool, whether it's a gun, a motorbike, or a guitar.

After all that, JBL's are tough and reliable and you will still get lots of fish with them.

100% agree with Erik. I have and have loved a Riffe metal tech. Great gun, lots of variations, durable, replaceable parts etc. But the one big bummer with it is that it sinks with the shaft out. I wish that it was a teak version mid-handle. On the contrary, other guns that float without shaft are much nicer to use.

 

[icarus pacific]

Not being one to buck the trend here, but with you being new and the place(s) you want to dive, I'd say go with the JBL. When I'm down there working, I bring one and clip off on my bailout bottle- the topside guys appreciate a little fresh fish.

For diving around the rigs the most you're going to see is 20-30 feet and NO gun is going to put a shaft that far out with enough ooomph to brain a fish though I have a few that might, but the goal is to make a kill you can collect. The JBL will resist the hammering on the way out, getting drug all over Hell and breakfast on the legs and is easy to get stuff for. Yeah, they're simple, the XHD has a sorta quiet trigger feature and the shafts are pretty stiff and easy on the wallet. After a year of fingering it all out and when you do pop a fish, you'll be fine with a JBL just wash it and you'll have a lot of company down there usung that gear. Be sure to get a JBL detachable tip, easily one of the screamin' deals they make. Good luck and carry some dykes.

 

[l0keman]

Thanks for the honest advice. I think I am going to get the Gulf Magnum XHD it's only $275. I'll use the $500 I save to buy a bouy, stringer, floatline, mask, fins, gloves, and boots.

 

[Erik]

Have fun dude!

 

[GreekDiver]

Thanks for the honest advice. I think I am going to get the Gulf Magnum XHD it's only $275. I'll use the $500 I save to buy a bouy, stringer, floatline, mask, fins, gloves, and boots.

No offense but i really dont want to stear you wrong. You can get a rabitech, omer, or rob allen guns for around $315.00 instead of a jbl.

Jbl is a piece of crap next to those guns.

harsh but brutally honest.

 

[l0keman]

you want to say why, greekdiver? That is the whole point of this thread... the random person like yourself says to stay away from JBL because they are a piece of crap, but doesn't elaborate or give evidence. I need to know why. What is the noise difference? What is the bouyancie difference? What is the accuracy difference? What is the strength difference?

So far I have decided to just get a JBL this payday becuase the only people giving info are the people pro-JBL. They are more sturdy, just as accurate and sink more, but not enought to give a crap about..... it just sounds like a bunch of fanboys for the pink painted cressi guns hating on JBL to me. THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS THREAD IS FOR SOMEONE TO PROVE ME WRONG BEFORE I WASTE MY MONEY.

 

[icarus pacific]

The idea here is to give you the pro's and con's and let whoever's asking make the choice. Just as with cars, trucks, wetsuits and blondes vs. brunettes vs. redheads, everyone has their take on things. The reason you're hearing mopre positive about the JBL stuff, and I mean this from me, is that I've actually owned and used them and still do for some applications.

I have a dozen or so guns and have used all except one and the only reason that one is dry is that it's the ONLY one from Jack Prodonovich that is engraved with his signature. You and the rest of this place don't have the $ to buy it from me. My other Prodonovich is well used, as are my Alexanders, Wong's, Hammerhead, Rabitech and JBL's. Of the total poundage of fish taken, the top producer has been my JBL Customs, but that's also primarily because here in the gloom and rocks, it's the best gun for the job. FOR ME. Yeah other guys go out with OMERS and Sporasubs and AquaTechs and all, but what I hit with my Custom's ends up in the freezer. I have one I started with and that was in '72 and it's the one I reach for most of the time. If I was in the Keys, or in the Med, or in Antarctica, my choice would be different and I'll friggin' guarantee that there'd be someone calling a JBL a piece of crap there too.

Just go get a gun, take it the water and learn, follow the Fish and Game regs and be safe.

PS... blondes.

 

[l0keman]

Thanks, that settles it. I am going for the gulf magnum. No one can prove it's bad... a few can prove it's a good company... the thing is designed for bluewater and has the freakin' name GULF in it... where I'll be using it. It's gonna have enough power and be way cheaper for my application. Like I said, for me, it's looking like %90 rig diving for 10-40 pound fish and %10 shallow diving off of islands and docks for small flounder and such and I have a JBL 7' aluminum pole spear I will be using too. I don't expect to get everything I point my gun at, I just expect to have a fair chance from my gear. I believe I can get that from JBL. Thanks for the help and I'll be ordering on the 1st.

 

[feign]

you want to say why, greekdiver? That is the whole point of this thread... the random person like yourself says to stay away from JBL because they are a piece of crap, but doesn't elaborate or give evidence. I need to know why. What is the noise difference? What is the bouyancie difference? What is the accuracy difference? What is the strength difference?

So far I have decided to just get a JBL this payday becuase the only people giving info are the people pro-JBL. They are more sturdy, just as accurate and sink more, but not enought to give a crap about..... it just sounds like a bunch of fanboys for the pink painted cressi guns hating on JBL to me. THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS THREAD IS FOR SOMEONE TO PROVE ME WRONG BEFORE I WASTE MY MONEY.

It's your cash, so go buy a JBL then. Prove us wrong. :rcard

 

[Fondueset]

For your reference IOkeman - The reasons Greekdiver cited on the FIRST page of your thread are included below. He doesn't like JBLs - and he has specific reasons which he did give you.

At the risk of failing the specificity test - I think the JBLs are good rock guns - good at close range - and for larger fish. All the JBLs I've used (3) had problems with sand in the triggers - something which may not be a factor for you. The Carbines are absolute crap. I don't think any of them float with the shaft out - except possibly the wooden ones. Floating shaft out is a big plus if you are freediving.

The ranges on the JBL site were a turn off for me. My riffe - rigged as specced on the site - actually shoots flat and fast for a bit further than the stated distance, as does my omer cobra and my mares cyrano. Your JBL might be good at 30 feet for a 20 degree lob at something very large and dead.

These are our opinions - supported as you requested. Personally I think your question was rhetorical right out of the gate.

-Pink-painted Cressi Fanboy.

do more research and buy a real gun. I started with jbl because of the price. I shot a lot of fish with them too. They are just poorly balanced and designed and the trigger is very stiff. So make a choice on what you want to do. I would save up a little more money and buy a real gun that has a resale value if you dont like it. JBL has no resale value. Buy a rob allen or go pnuematic like i did.

 

[Erik]

So far I have decided to just get a JBL this payday becuase the only people giving info are the people pro-JBL. .

Umm... pretty sure I gave some experience-based advice to the negative?


.......a freediver does not want a gun that sinks when the shaft is in the fish and he's swimming to the surface. A neutral gun will float when the shaft is free, and not tangle in fins and float lines etc as you head for the surface... trust me on that one.
The heavy-nosed weight of these guns is also a problem if you're holding the gun horizontally for any length of time, and I am no weakling... it just starts to get annoying and affects your relaxation and concentration if you're waiting patiently holding the gun out. I found I'd inevitably end up 'rifling' the barrel with 2 hands. ......


And I don't hate them- they're a good gun to learn with. I ate lots of fish thanks to my JBL, but once I put a real gun in my hand I'd never go back.
If you choose to start with a heavy, overpriced, badly-balanced gun that's based on the Voit from the '60's with no real upgrades in design, has a shitty misfiring trigger, aren't worried about tangling in your fins, don't understand why a lighter gun is safer, then go ahead... nobody cares what you buy, but you asked- don't crap on a guy because you don't like his answer.

 

[Fondueset]

nobody cares what you buy, but you asked- don't crap on a guy because you don't like his answer.

I was going to suggest an open muzzle - you know: For comfort in the event he talks to his dive buddies the way he did greekdiver.

 

[icarus pacific]

ladies... :ycard

 

[Fondueset]

Thread about the XHD over on Spearboard

[ame="http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=46162"]XHDThread[/ame]

 

[l0keman]

I'm not trying to piss anyone off or anything, I'm just trying to get a real gun that works for entry into this sport and want some solid answers. I am pissy and coming off as an @sshole, but whatever. I came home last Friday after work to my wife nailing some guy. She walked out and left me and my two daughters ages 1 and 3 to rot. She said I can have my girls so long as I paid for the divorce, all the debt and had the divorce papers say I will never ask for child support. I'm in the mood to be an @sshole for a while and I'm more concerned about hurting myself right now than anyone else hurting me. I am sorry though GreekDiver, I know what it is like to be shitted on for no reason.

After dropping my $2500 i was saving to start spearfishing and make a repair to my boat, instead I bought a super fast divorce before the witch changed her mind and took my kids and everything else. So I am on a tight budget and need to get out and do something other than staying shut up in my home.

I think since I have to have something that's big enough for the area and will last (and look good, no pink, light blue or red spots and crap) I will just save for a few more pay days and get a Riffe. I like the #5 Baja plus, that's the one my shop recomended too. Does anyone have any expericence with this gun? Or any of the guns that share the same design? I can get it from the shop here for $700, is that fair? I can only find it at like 3 online stores and they are like 675$ and I would have to pay for shipping, so I might as well get it from here. Can I use this gun with just one band if I took the bands off or tucked out of the way?

Is anyone willing to email an ass like me and explain a few things to me and answer some questions?

 

[icarus pacific]

I am pissy and coming off as an @sshole, but whatever. The first step in recovery is admitting your problem

So I am on a tight budget and need to get out and do something other than staying shut up in my home. Take your kids to the Park and put the $ in an account for their education.

....and look good, no pink, light blue or red spots and crap. This matters not at all as most spearos modify the exterors and once you get to this guy's level, it matters even less.

I like the #5 Baja plus, that's the one my shop recomended too. Does anyone have any expericence with this gun? Yes. It's a damn good gun and if you were to get it as a starter gun, you'd not be disappointed, just a bit poorer in the pocket.

Is anyone willing to email an ass like me and explain a few things to me and answer some questions?

We are.


Sigh.:head