Why the hate?

[Fondueset]

Rog that - don't forget ebay And check over on Spearboard - a lot of guns change hands over there and I've seen some Riffes go cheap. It ain't all about Riffe's though. It's really a matter of taste - there are even people out there who think Riffes are crap :chatup - they surely are pricey.
My advice is be a little bit patient - it's hard when you get the bug - but you can tap into other peoples learning curve and end up happier with your decision.

Riffe Stuff on Ebay!

Go easy mate - most of us have been through a ringer of some sort or another. As I'm sure you know - take care of the little people and it's all good.

I think for freediving something a little lighter than a JBL would be good. I'll stay on the lookout for good ones. IP is for sure a library of info so I'll leave it to him - but yes on the bands - you can even choke them up for hole shots.

Also - never hyperventilate and don't exert too much on the way down

 

[josedesucre]

Erik: I totally agree with you about the importance of floatability. In fact, it is the number one reason I switched from pneumatics to rubber bands. However, there are still many people using pneumatics (including myself sometimes, and of course Foxfish), and we have to learn how to deal with the fish while still holding the gun, normally with the help of a reel. On the other hand I didn't know that the XHD wouldn't float once free of the shaft. I confess never have tried that particular gun.

 

[l0keman]

Well, thanks Icarus. The girls and I go sailing and to the beach and park and spend all my freetime everyday together, they never do without. Instead of saying shut up in my home, I prolly should have said spending all my alone time shut up in the home. When the girls are at daycare and I get a day off or take leave... I have nothing to do but wait and normally just go get my girls early. I think it's almost unhealthy in some ways as I have only seen my best friend 4 times this year and one of those was when I bumped into him at wal-mart. I think I should get a hobby that allows me to socialize with friends and meet some new people.

To the point, I can get the Riffe without any strain, but will still draw it out to be safe. Everyone swears by them, so I've got to be a fool not to believe it. I just need to get with someone in the area and plan a trip once I got some adaquate gear, all my stuff is for snorkeling.

 

[Fondueset]

About stress and freediving I have a saying: Stress Floats

 

[icarus pacific]

Regardless...

While for most and I said MOST situations, having the gun float is a desirable thing- it gets the bulk out of your face, and in doing so helps clear the line from your torso. This is especially handy with a reel when your fish is holed up and you're using the gun as a marker float/downline.

Then the times when you're running around on a rig, the need for a floating gunstock is less important. After you pop a rig dwelling fish, the line attaching the dinner to the gun has an endearing habit of getting fouled on the rig structure, and thus the need for using wire. While on the outset having the line foul is a pain in the ass, if a hot fish want's to wrap up at 50 instead of taking a stroll at 140', who am I to complain? Most rig-savvy divers I know and have dove with, shoot and start hauling as soon as they pull the trigger or if they're deep, will let the line foul to slow the fish and keep it handy. Most guns, and I'm talking Euro style here, will not float a wire setup, until you shoot and even then, the weight of the wire leading from the gun's muzzle can offset the barrels bouyancy, and a few American style as well, a JBL being one, unless you go the wood optioned JBL's. A floating gun will itself wrap itself in the structure and then you got a real pain in the ass on your hands.

Again, and again... if you get lucky enough to have someone that knows the score, show you how, you're golden. See what, where, how and why. You try to learn this stuff on your own, buddy, your divorce will seem like cake. I've been there and like the stuff I'm saying here, take it or leave it, but the smart money is on hearing this- Take a toodle down to your local dive shop. Get the owner or the rare someone that knows what's going on, or look at the bulletin board to see if there is a club and when it meets. Join. Learn. Be ahead of the game.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I'll admit to just skimming this thread. It seems that most of the points I would have made about JBL have already been made, so I'll add just a couple of things.

If you are freediving, its absolutely essential that the gun float after being fired. JBLs won't float.

In 1961 I bought a Swimmaster gun. Later the design was purchased by Voit, and I owned a few of them. There may have been one more intermediate company, but the design ended up with JBL and I owned a few of those.

In the late 1980s I bought my first Riffe, a smaller version. In 1991 I bought a Riffe Island. I have since moved on to Wongs, but I don't even want to get into that. The one thing I'm sure of is that I would never go back to JBL.

But on the other hand, fish are generally thick and easy to spear under the rigs, and a cheaper gun will work for you until you figure out whether you are going to stick to the sport and decide what really works for you. However, I think you would be better off with a Euro style gun as your starter.

Just about all of the guys on Spearboard who freedive the rigs use Riffes, Wongs, or other wood guns. Many of the scuba divers do seem to use JBL.

 

[l0keman]

Thanks. I sent Rigdvr a PM about a week ago.... hopefully he'll log on soon. His posts are what i'm basing a lot of my info on, that and the dive shop guy, who doesn't spearfish, but talks to his clients about it. Rigdvr is my first choice for help as he has been here a long time and gets good catches. I can understand some of what your sayin, a lot is just a matter of me seing a setup and how it works first. I thin it goes the spear is attached to the gun via a shock cord, then the gun to the bouy via a float line.... am I right? I figure I would always use a bouy in my set up and never a reel... just becuase there are so many boats here. I was thinking like 50ft stretch line. It supposed to stretch too 100 feet. I was also thinking of a kayak instead of a bouy if that could be done?

 

[GreekDiver]

i wasnt offended at all. I dont get mad when someone says something on the internet. I just say it how it is and i dont butter it up.

i learned with jbls because i didnt know any better. Once i used a different gun, wow i really noticed the difference. I am not a fanboy. I mentioned all those spearguns and im not even a band gun user. I have used them before though. I only use pneumatics now with mamba kits installed. I dont recommend them to other people because they are very difficult to aim.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

As far as I know, rigdvr uses Wongs, but I can't say that's what he would recommend for you.

I think a lot of guys diving the rigs use reels, but if you do use a float line, maybe you should rig it for breakaway so your gun isn't being dragged through the rigs.

 

[Fondueset]

I haven't seen rigdiver around in awhile. I know he lost some stuff in Katrina but I do recall he likes the wongs (hybrids I think).
Having just gotten back into this recently I can tell you there is a big tendancy to get too much gun. When I first started up I felt like I needed a gun that would shoot 25 feet - visibility here is around 40-50 all summer - up to 100 during the winter. As I began to work on it I found I could get quite close to fish that I previously could barely even see in the distance. I now mostly use my little Riffe MT0. I dislike long guns so I am putting together a mamba for my long-range gun. Pneumatics are an aquired taste - they were among my first guns when I was a kid (right after the #%^@ voit/jbl carbine) so I am undaunted by them.

I suggest you join up over on Spearboard - there are quite a few Gulf-coast divers over there.

Another option well-worth considering along with Rob Allens is the Wong railgun. Daryl Wong has an impeccable reputation and these guns are an amazing value. You can ask anywhere - you'll be very hard pressed to hear anything negative about his stuff. The railguns are cheap enough to be considered a beginner gun, but everything I've heard says they are absolutely top notch in all respects and built to last. You could get one of these and get a feel for the sport with a gun everyone will want to try out while you slowly realize that you must have a wong hybrid which, incidentally, costs about the same as the Riffe you are looking at and has an unconditional lifetime warranty.

Wong Hybrids

Wong Aluminum Railgun

 

[Seal]

Having just gotten back into this recently I can tell you there is a big tendancy to get too much gun. QUOTE]

Word!

It's a common thing among beginners. My most succesfull gun have been a 75cm euro with a pair of crappy 16mm bands. And a reel.
That's how I learned to sneak and aim. Infact im thinking my next gun should be a Omer Mimetic 75 or a Cayman Hf 75.

Come to think of it. How many times have I with a big gun tought, "well it's a 6 m shot I can probaly make it" fired then missed, and while reloading the fish comes by 3m from me! Then it swims away thinking what a nice multi band gun, must take hours to reload ; )

 

[GreekDiver]

My 120cm pneumatic gun shoots easily 5meters from tip of the gun. How often do i shoot that far? Not often. I have a pretty long breathhold so fish usually come pretty close. I can kill them with the crappiest speargun. The reason i like that extra range is for fish that are very skittish and dont respond to aspetto. Its nice to know that i have that power to easily penetrate a grouper at 5meters away from tip of the gun.

Shooting fish 85% man, 15% gun.

 

[l0keman]

well, If the #5 has the possability to be too much gun, how does the #3 standard sound? Would that one be better for beginner stuff? It's a couple hundred cheaper too. Anyone have this gun?

 

[feign]

I believe that the major factor in gun length is visibility. Other things like type/size of fish, terrain, diving style, personal preferences come secondary in my opinion. Many guns have flexibility within themselves to accommodate your secondary variables and some fluctuation in vis. For example, the Riffe you are considering could have one or two wraps of line, shafts from 1/4-5/8 inch, hawaiian or threaded tips, 1-4 bands depending on your thickness and power needs. That is one of the nice things about investing in a gun like that. If you are getting one gun to cover you for some time, then consider the overall average visibility in your diving area to help you with the decision. What is your average vis?

 

[l0keman]

I have read that it's 40+ around the rigs here, with some large fish.

 

[GreekDiver]

110cm to 130 is good imo for that vis.

 

[Fondueset]

My two cents is 110cm aimrite aluminum railgun.

 

[colt.45]

It's a common thing among beginners. My most succesfull gun have been a 75cm euro with a pair of crappy 16mm bands. And a reel.
That's how I learned to sneak and aim. Infact im thinking my next gun should be a Omer Mimetic 75 or a Cayman Hf 75.

Come to think of it. How many times have I with a big gun tought, "well it's a 6 m shot I can probaly make it" fired then missed, and while reloading the fish comes by 3m from me! Then it swims away thinking what a nice multi band gun, must take hours to reload ; )[/QUOTE]

Amen (no reel though)

 

[GreekDiver]

For his visibility, 75cm is too small but ive seen the cayman upclose and its well engineered.