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Yoga, scientific research and stopping the heart
- Thread starterAdrian
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I was questioned once when I was reading a Buddist book, "how could I read a book like that because it was against my religion
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Happen to you the same than happened to eva in the garden - you where tented first and then you eat from the fruit-( prohibida )-
We- as believer we can not question when something is wrong or go contrary to the word__________________
Reflecting in something:
I know that the devil hasn't invented anything--- and God created everthing-
Most of the movement yoga do with his body and all this kind of position -talking about the - fisiological part of yoga- wans't invented by budistas- all this are things that people can do without reading a book about yoga- most of this are natural - the danger part is - and when the yoga tell you to put your mind (asi o asao) or put your mind in blank---and "this is where the dark side start"
For example going back using the example of Eva at the garden-- she didn't sin when moving his hand to reach the fruit-- she sin when she was tented first in his (mind )and then decided to eated from the prohibited fruit-- did you see how the devil work- IN YOUR MIND- in your HEART- and then it will afect your talent and your fisiological part ect.
Did you see how the devil can use your talent that God have given you for the wrong keeping you blind for what you really should beleived or to put your mind ???
Not wonder the first and great mandamiento is: You will love the Lord you God with all your heart and with all your mind "
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If one day I deceided to take a yoga book in my hand to read -it will be for with the only reason of --DESCARTAR- all of the false way yoga use in his practice to deceived a soul-
Daniel.
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Happen to you the same than happened to eva in the garden - you where tented first and then you eat from the fruit-( prohibida )-
We- as believer we can not question when something is wrong or go contrary to the word__________________
Reflecting in something:
I know that the devil hasn't invented anything--- and God created everthing-
Most of the movement yoga do with his body and all this kind of position -talking about the - fisiological part of yoga- wans't invented by budistas- all this are things that people can do without reading a book about yoga- most of this are natural - the danger part is - and when the yoga tell you to put your mind (asi o asao) or put your mind in blank---and "this is where the dark side start"
For example going back using the example of Eva at the garden-- she didn't sin when moving his hand to reach the fruit-- she sin when she was tented first in his (mind )and then decided to eated from the prohibited fruit-- did you see how the devil work- IN YOUR MIND- in your HEART- and then it will afect your talent and your fisiological part ect.
Did you see how the devil can use your talent that God have given you for the wrong keeping you blind for what you really should beleived or to put your mind ???
Not wonder the first and great mandamiento is: You will love the Lord you God with all your heart and with all your mind "
__________
If one day I deceided to take a yoga book in my hand to read -it will be for with the only reason of --DESCARTAR- all of the false way yoga use in his practice to deceived a soul-
Daniel.
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What is claimed without evidence can be denied without evidence.
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The evidence is given:
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples ;And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free
____________
The evidence is given:
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples ;And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free
Neshamah - you do not think, you only know and that is a shame - this forum is for people mature enough to admit they do not know everything, who are willing to learn something (as it happens, about freediving). Freediving has a subtle spirituality it did not borrow from Christianity nor Bhuddism. If you are a Christian and feel closer to God when you are diving (like Haydn), then you are responding in a totally natural way. But you do this sport a disservice by saying freediving is nothing without God, in using a sport we love and cherish as a truncheon to bash the word of God into people's heads and, frankly, by coming onto this forum and boring everybody with your childishly intractable views and cliched bible-spiel? Your sinister rants and veiled threats are far below the standards of a normally respectable religion. Get a life mate.
The irony of this thread is that there is tremendous evidence that Jesus, during his 'lost' years, actually spent them in India learning from Eastern masters, and may even have learned to perform his miracles from them.
Many Easterners such as Milarespa and Babaji apparently performed miracles too, many of which were even more amazing than Jesus (including post-mortem miracles). Yet they were not worshipped, because in the East such miracles performed by masters were not uncommon. It was only in the west, when Jesus returned from the East, that these miracles were unbelievable, because they hadn't been seen before by people there. Hence people assumed Jesus was some sort of God. All they needed to do was venture to Tibet at the time, and they would have seen miracles of a similar nature left right and center....
My two cents....
Many Easterners such as Milarespa and Babaji apparently performed miracles too, many of which were even more amazing than Jesus (including post-mortem miracles). Yet they were not worshipped, because in the East such miracles performed by masters were not uncommon. It was only in the west, when Jesus returned from the East, that these miracles were unbelievable, because they hadn't been seen before by people there. Hence people assumed Jesus was some sort of God. All they needed to do was venture to Tibet at the time, and they would have seen miracles of a similar nature left right and center....
My two cents....
Best not to get granular 
If you look in the literature of Daoism, Yoga - any and all of the esoteric traditions, you find many many examples of all of these things. I think it is probably useful to distinguish between miracles and yogic abilities - though there is an obvious overlap there is a difference in purpose - perhaps another time though..
In his quite excellent book 'The Sufis' - Idrea Shah, in his section on Miracles and Magic, includes the following quotes attributed to the Sufi Bahauhdin:
First - "There is a food other than ordinary food. This food is Impressions, which are penetrating into man ceaselessly from many directions of his environment..."
Then -"What is important is the function of miracles. Miracles may be destined to supply a part of the food which is an extra food, and may act upon the mind, and even the body, in a certain way. When this happens the experience of the miracle will perform it's due and proper function on the mind. If the miracle acts only on the imagination, as with the crude mind, it will stimulate uncritical credulity or emotional excitement, or a thirst for more miracles, or a one-sided attachment to, even fear of the person who is apparently responsible for the miracle..." "...in all cases the miracle is an instrument of both influence and assessement of the people acted upon...."
If you look in the literature of Daoism, Yoga - any and all of the esoteric traditions, you find many many examples of all of these things. I think it is probably useful to distinguish between miracles and yogic abilities - though there is an obvious overlap there is a difference in purpose - perhaps another time though..In his quite excellent book 'The Sufis' - Idrea Shah, in his section on Miracles and Magic, includes the following quotes attributed to the Sufi Bahauhdin:
First - "There is a food other than ordinary food. This food is Impressions, which are penetrating into man ceaselessly from many directions of his environment..."
Then -"What is important is the function of miracles. Miracles may be destined to supply a part of the food which is an extra food, and may act upon the mind, and even the body, in a certain way. When this happens the experience of the miracle will perform it's due and proper function on the mind. If the miracle acts only on the imagination, as with the crude mind, it will stimulate uncritical credulity or emotional excitement, or a thirst for more miracles, or a one-sided attachment to, even fear of the person who is apparently responsible for the miracle..." "...in all cases the miracle is an instrument of both influence and assessement of the people acted upon...."
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Religion arrr what a load of Toptal CRAP
Jessus, God the Virgin Mary is there any credable evidance that it ever happend or just the biggest load of dribble ever written.
Dont threaten me with getting smitted or struct down by lighting beause it just wont happen or that crap '' You will rot i Hell'',, BULL SHIT the only place i will rot will be in the Earth like Nature intended, and I have been good so maybe i will come back as a Cow or Dolphin or Stipper in Vegus.
Yoga is the best thing for strecthing, loosening up mussels, and getting my breathing back , I certainly have never found religion in it.Its a sporting tool i use to improve my performance nothing more
Think of all the Wars and all the Men Women and Children that have died in the name of Any Religion and try to justify it.
I dont belive any religion Christian or other , I dont need it to Show me the way. My Joy comes from the Smile on my Childrens faces and thier and my love for life.
Its my view and im entiteled to it and if you dont like it well i dont care.
Lets keep religion where it belongs at home and to yourself, believe in what you want to believe in but im no lesser of a man if i dont.
And dont start me on the God created Earth and Man crap
Crusty
Jessus, God the Virgin Mary is there any credable evidance that it ever happend or just the biggest load of dribble ever written.
Dont threaten me with getting smitted or struct down by lighting beause it just wont happen or that crap '' You will rot i Hell'',, BULL SHIT the only place i will rot will be in the Earth like Nature intended, and I have been good so maybe i will come back as a Cow or Dolphin or Stipper in Vegus.
Yoga is the best thing for strecthing, loosening up mussels, and getting my breathing back , I certainly have never found religion in it.Its a sporting tool i use to improve my performance nothing more
Think of all the Wars and all the Men Women and Children that have died in the name of Any Religion and try to justify it.
I dont belive any religion Christian or other , I dont need it to Show me the way. My Joy comes from the Smile on my Childrens faces and thier and my love for life.
Its my view and im entiteled to it and if you dont like it well i dont care.
Lets keep religion where it belongs at home and to yourself, believe in what you want to believe in but im no lesser of a man if i dont.
And dont start me on the God created Earth and Man crap
Crusty
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To give you an idea of the Eastern miracles I'm referring to, I'm not talking about anything like yogic abilities. After Milarespa died, that same evening there was a meteor shower and the meteors all stayed in the sky and arranged themselves in the shape of a tibetan meditation mandala (filling the sky with a beautiful geometrical design), before dispersing. At least this is what onlookers said happened, much like onlookers described miracles done by Jesus. I see no reason to accept one and not the other. Either you accept both or you reject both.
Please people try to concentrate on the topic )
it was yoga, scienticfic research.... remember?
And its a very interesting topic well for me at least
Here's another link u conciencely breathing people might b interested in:
http://jeksite.org/yoga/resp.htm
dan
)it was yoga, scienticfic research.... remember?
And its a very interesting topic well for me at least
Here's another link u conciencely breathing people might b interested in:
http://jeksite.org/yoga/resp.htm
dan
Hey Daniel,
Write something beautiful about freediving and how it enhances your spirituality. Maybe tell us how you feel about creation and the diversity of feelings you experience during a dive, especially if that dive tests your ability and may end your life. Is it cheating to pray for help during a competition? Maybe tell us about the similarities there are as you exercise faith in God during your daily life compared with the faith you exercise in your dive buddy as you attempt a deep dive. Does your faith affect your ability to dive? ..........I am assuming you are a freediver. Do you feel as close to God at 50 meters as you do during your personal prayers? How do you feel about diving on the Sabbath? Can you dive as deep or is there something missing during those dives?
Write something beautiful about freediving and how it enhances your spirituality. Maybe tell us how you feel about creation and the diversity of feelings you experience during a dive, especially if that dive tests your ability and may end your life. Is it cheating to pray for help during a competition? Maybe tell us about the similarities there are as you exercise faith in God during your daily life compared with the faith you exercise in your dive buddy as you attempt a deep dive. Does your faith affect your ability to dive? ..........I am assuming you are a freediver. Do you feel as close to God at 50 meters as you do during your personal prayers? How do you feel about diving on the Sabbath? Can you dive as deep or is there something missing during those dives?
O
octopus
Guest
I wonder how this thread has drifted from science into...well...let's be polite and say...speculation.
Any ideology that assumes possession of absolute truth cannot truly accommodate different opinions. It can barely tolerate different opinions, subject to its political power. Theism and strong atheism are not fertile basis for free thought, while agnosticism and weak atheism are. Amen.
Any ideology that assumes possession of absolute truth cannot truly accommodate different opinions. It can barely tolerate different opinions, subject to its political power. Theism and strong atheism are not fertile basis for free thought, while agnosticism and weak atheism are. Amen.
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le poisson chat said:
Thanks a lot! That's a really nice scientific study, I've just finished reading it. There are some interesting lines about chin lock & abdominal lock during breathholds - hope that Adrian, Eric and some other yoga-experts here ;-) will use this study as a freediving-technique-manual.
And - as always - share the knowledge with us, the little ones... ;-)
The thing is that whilst Yoga offers fantastic physiological benefits and science can assist us in understanding them. Not all freedivers can achieve the physical benefits that yoga offers, particularly me, being extremely unflexible. I would have to invest huge amounts of time to train Yoga (far more than I do with Freediving) before I would gain any proficiency. However, regardless of proficiency in Yoga or the suporting science that tells me to do it, there is an immediate benefit in practising yoga to Freediving, in the practise that verges on spirituality. Especially the concepts of breathing and awareness of inner peace. Employing these areas I can gain as full a measure as the expert, despite my ungainly physical efforts.
Things may not always be supported by science, due to its reliance upon proof. However, similar benefits to yoga can be found in other areas. Although Daniel is suggesting one area to the exclusion of all others. His contributions are valid and valuable if they impact on our sport and particularly so if they could be conveyed with more relevance. Science isnt the only benchmark used to offer proof or to validate good principles. I am genuinely interested in Daniels response to the few questions I posed. Likewise, just talk to Sam Still regarding principles of fasting, or to Bevan Dewer about meditation, you dont have to be a Buddist to appreciate them, just as you dont have to be religious to appreciate scriptural principles. Science is not always the hill that offers the greatest view.
Great to see toads of comment though. However, maybe this discussion needs to go under a new thread.
Things may not always be supported by science, due to its reliance upon proof. However, similar benefits to yoga can be found in other areas. Although Daniel is suggesting one area to the exclusion of all others. His contributions are valid and valuable if they impact on our sport and particularly so if they could be conveyed with more relevance. Science isnt the only benchmark used to offer proof or to validate good principles. I am genuinely interested in Daniels response to the few questions I posed. Likewise, just talk to Sam Still regarding principles of fasting, or to Bevan Dewer about meditation, you dont have to be a Buddist to appreciate them, just as you dont have to be religious to appreciate scriptural principles. Science is not always the hill that offers the greatest view.
Great to see toads of comment though. However, maybe this discussion needs to go under a new thread.
neshamah said:
Neshamah, and what do you think to "pray" is within the Christian religion, if not to reach a place of mindful calm and peace followed by an enlightened, euphoric "god communicating" state?
The parallels we can draw are uncanny. What we must surely agree on is what matters is the honest state of heart of the individual applying such knowledge and techniques. The world is to small a place for all this we're right your wrong attitude. But I tell you what, the world is a BIG place for freediving (80% of the world covered in water) :friday WOOOHOOOO...
le poisson chat said:Please people try to concentrate on the topic
it was yoga, scienticfic research.... remember?
And its a very interesting topic well for me at least
Here's another link u conciencely breathing people might b interested in:
http://jeksite.org/yoga/resp.htm
dan
Spot on, I will be investigating some of the mentioned techniques in a bit more detail, massive thanks for the link
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