2014 lunocet

[cdavis]

Something else to be aware of.

Some bike shoes , maybe all, use ferrous connectors in the buckle system. These destruct pretty fast when used in salt water.

Not a big problem to fix, I used heavy mono and fishing rigger's crimps, just be prepared if you see some rust and are planning a long trip. Otherwise, my Shimano's have lasted a whole lot of hours just fine.

 

[Apneaddict]

I also put a dab of synthetic grease on the bolts that mount the shoes, for easy future removal / to prevent seizing.

 

[noa]

All good info and tips...

 

[neurodoc]

I have been swimming with the 2014 classic Lunocet enough now to have a decent feel of how it works, and am looking forward to the Pro fluke upgrade. To comment on some of the discussion and clarify my previous comments, there seem to be two aspects to freediving: the competitive aspect and almost everything else freediving. For competition, every bit of performance counts of course, and comparing fins to get a calculated winner/loser is useful. For everything else? well, it's more practical: comfort, convenience, fun, fitness might be better metrics to evaluate. These, however, are all subjective. So, when I compare my Lunocet to my Carbon Glide sprint fin, or to my medium stiffness Nemo fin, I have nothing to contribute as to the competitive side (haven't competed yet, train alone so no idea what my "max dyn" is, usually not even anyone to time or record my swims) but have plenty from the "everything not competitive" side. I feel that both aspects of freediving are worthy of discussion and acknowledgement as far as fin designs! To completely discount a swimmer's impression just because there are no measurements of time or distance seems narrow minded to me, as "impressions" address the non-competitive aspects adequately. Just because a freediver is not a competitor does not mean that they should be grouped in with the mer-people either. Rather, as freediving is a small yet growing sport, maybe those folks should be brought into the fold as non-competitors who are also into breath hold underwater swimming. As for me, I can say without doubt that I can go farther, or faster, maybe both, with the Lunocet than the Nemo. I can go at least as far, but not faster than with my Glide, but that's not surprising as it is a sprint fin. Comfort is easy, the shoes are the best (using Specialized carbon sole shoes). Effort is about the same as with a Finis Foil subjectively. I use a Finis as a warm-up fin often and keep it in my locker at the pool as a backup fin. The fun factor and esthetic factor favors the Lunocet for me. No, I'm not a Merman and don't have a Lycra cover on it, but the thing looks cool! Sorry, but as a non-competitor that counts. Adds to the fun. The Pro version may excel at both sides of freediving. I am looking forward to those whose technique and experience make them worthy of this level of evaluation. Oh, and if you swim right under the surface, on your side, so that one fluke protrudes from the water? Little kids squeal in either delight or fear (or both!) because it looks like a shark to them ;-) I know...cheap thrill, right?
Edit: had Shimano written but fixed it as my shoes are actually Specialized.

 

[Apneaddict]

The Lunocet is great and it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out... Although one apparently did.

Lunocet Pro warning:
Your pool will seem 30-35% shorter!!

 

[Chipswim]

Hmmmmmm......,. Do we need to wear helmets until we recalibrate!?!

 

[Kars]

Well I must confess that after I started using the monofin I developed wall fobia, thanks to unexpectedly crashing into walls. The same fear also appeared at depth when I crashed into the muddy bottom with arm in the mud until shoulder, head also partially into it, very disorientating.

What do these percentages compare?

 

[Triton1715]

I have to admit, I'm looking at getting a monofin after a years of bi-fins (20 Fathoms Edge. . . absolutely superb by the way!) and the Lunocet Pro definitely has me on the edge of my seat. I find myself dolphin kicking a good 75%+ of the time anyway so I might as well make the switch, right? Can't wait to hear the review so I can decide between the Lunocet and Dol-fin! I feel like a kid before Christmas right now waiting for the review

 

[noa]

I have been swimming with the 2014 classic Lunocet enough now to have a decent feel of how it works, and am looking forward to the Pro fluke upgrade. To comment on some of the discussion and clarify my previous comments, there seem to be two aspects to freediving: the competitive aspect and almost everything else freediving. For competition, every bit of performance counts of course, and comparing fins to get a calculated winner/loser is useful. For everything else? well, it's more practical: comfort, convenience, fun, fitness might be better metrics to evaluate. These, however, are all subjective. So, when I compare my Lunocet to my Carbon Glide sprint fin, or to my medium stiffness Nemo fin, I have nothing to contribute as to the competitive side (haven't competed yet, train alone so no idea what my "max dyn" is, usually not even anyone to time or record my swims) but have plenty from the "everything not competitive" side. I feel that both aspects of freediving are worthy of discussion and acknowledgement as far as fin designs! To completely discount a swimmer's impression just because there are no measurements of time or distance seems narrow minded to me, as "impressions" address the non-competitive aspects adequately. Just because a freediver is not a competitor does not mean that they should be grouped in with the mer-people either. Rather, as freediving is a small yet growing sport, maybe those folks should be brought into the fold as non-competitors who are also into breath hold underwater swimming. As for me, I can say without doubt that I can go farther, or faster, maybe both, with the Lunocet than the Nemo. I can go at least as far, but not faster than with my Glide, but that's not surprising as it is a sprint fin. Comfort is easy, the shoes are the best (using Shimano carbon sole shoes). Effort is about the same as with a Finis Foil subjectively. I use a Finis as a warm-up fin often and keep it in my locker at the pool as a backup fin. The fun factor and esthetic factor favors the Lunocet for me. No, I'm not a Merman and don't have a Lycra cover on it, but the thing looks cool! Sorry, but as a non-competitor that counts. Adds to the fun. The Pro version may excel at both sides of freediving. I am looking forward to those whose technique and experience make them worthy of this level of evaluation. Oh, and if you swim right under the surface, on your side, so that one fluke protrudes from the water? Little kids squeal in either delight or fear (or both!) because it looks like a shark to them ;-) I know...cheap thrill, right?

Very well said doc... I'm with you all the way on this, and certainly fit into the "underwater monofin swimmer" category.
Along with the "monofin surface swimmer", "breaching attempter", "above and below water bodysurfer" (VERY much look forward to try the Lunocet for that), hydrotourer, and many more monofin inspired hydratic games.
Personally, I certainly want my fin to work well and be efficient, but couldn't give two hoots about numbers and falling into a paralysis by over analysis game. Spent too many years doing that on land based high end sports and I'm done with it.
My time on the water is all about getting away from that mind set and just having plain old fun. The kind that makes you giggle like a kid and smile till your ears. Along with achieving my belovedly blissful zen states...

 

[vali]

I took the time to read each and every post in this thread and I'm not sorry for doing that!
Impressive posts some of them doubled with very helpful videos
Thanks to all of you for this thread

 

[cdavis]

Seems like this thread is developing an odd flavor. My sincere apologies if I am misinterpreting, but sure seems like a number of not so subtle digs at those who would like to see a head to head comparison of the various foil fins(Lunacet and Dolfin) with a more traditional mono. As if careful comparison doesn't matter or that those wishing for a more structured comparison are competition fanatics interested only in flat out performance. Respectfully, I'll take the position that careful head to head comparisons are critical to educating divers, for all kinds of reasons, most having nothing to do with competition.


Personally I could care less about flat out performance or competitions , never been in one, but I'd sure like to see a detailed, head to head comparison of the various fins. I think many of the previous posters are correct that the future population of monfin freedivers is going to be fun, not competition, oriented. How in the world are those divers going to make an informed choice on the best fin for their type of diving, without some detailed comparisons?


As far as the Lunacet goes, I've read enough to convince me that it is a pretty good fin in a lot of ways, but is it as good a fin for my use as a Dolfin? It appears to swim similarly. Is it as maneuverable? Which has a better glide? Reading between the lines of what has been posted, the regular Lunacet doesn't appear to have the acceleration of the Dolfin or the ability to go real slow efficiently, but how can I tell for sure without a head to head? Does the pro model have as good or better acceleration as Dolfin? Can I spearfish with it as well? Is it as durable, a big issue for me? Is it neutral in salt water or can be made so?, a deal killer for me. From what I've read, the regular Lunacet would not be a good fin for me, no where near the Dolfin, . Would the pro model be better? Can't tell.


One of the significant problems in figuring out what gear is best for a given diver is the lack of careful comparisons on all kinds of gear. Whats out there is nearly all marketing hype, or individual divers lauding what they like, without sufficient, broad based knowledge to make a valid comparison. Lets not let that happen to foil fins.


Suggestion to Ted and Ron: Why don't you two get together and do some serious comparisons?



Connor

 

[noa]

Connor, you make good points. I certainly agree with your approach.

 

[neurodoc]

Performance comparisons do have their value, and I can get as caught up in them as anyone else. I've learned through the other sports that I've been involved in that it is only when performance is combined with the subjective values that a complete picture forms as to what is the best choice for an individual. Both have their place in evaluations, just as both non-competitors/recreational freedivers and competitive ones have a place. I'd like to compete eventually, when I can fit it into my life, though it would only be to push my own progress and learn more. I too would like to see head to head comparisons, and I would like to see those comparisons measure a fin's worthiness not just on pure performance metrics such as time for distance, max glide per kick, distance per breath, but other values such as comfort, price, portability, visual appeal, serviceability, durability, ease of transport, potential of upgrades if desired...I'm sure others here could add to the list or narrow it down. Perhaps points can be assigned from 1-10 for each category and then added up. Then, people who participate in different aspects of freediving can choose how much to weight each of those categories based on their own needs. The future of the sport does indeed hinge on bringing new people in, and these subjective considerations probably mean as much or more to them than only which is faster or goes farther. I know I would have loved to see a full comparison when I started being interested! Maybe if a group of people got together, each representing one aspect of freediving, to test fins?

 

[Kars]

I think it's great to have more choice, and manufactures striving to make their products better. I think the American inventors are doing a great job, a testament to their free thinking entrepreneurial culture. Now a question, is this a win-loose, or a win-win situation?

I'm asking this because there apparently is race going on in people's minds, over which design is 'the best', which design begets the herd following? I think it's the group-think that is stirring up the repetitive fan-boy talk, seeking social approval, which is a genuine need.

 

[Kars]

About building a comparison review, let me propose this:

How about two Dolfin and Lunocet person get in touch and test, film and record their product, and then lend each other their foil and perform the same test series?
This way we have two people testing both, filming and comparing both designs.
It's likely both those people have a hyperfin as well so that adds even more depth to the story.

We can have a matrix of results, so people can make an informed choice, getting a fin or foil that fits their needs best.


AA, have you got your new shoes already?

 

[lil jon]

Hi guys, I've had another couple of swims with the Lunocet and would like to share some updates. Thanks to everyone for their comments, didn't expect my little write-up to be so well received. Just to let you know, I'm trying to be a competitive freediver so most of my comments will be directed as such. i.e. my demands on the fins will be along the lines of "can this fin get me as far as I possibly can?".

To answer questions by Kars: my average 50m swim on my rocketfin (stiffness 2) is 33-34s. The Lunocet was about 40s. In regards to effort used, it's hard to define it. The best was to describe it in my words would be "the kind of effort I would use to do a max pb". If I had to put a number on it with 100% being a full on sprint and 30% being very very slow/relaxed, I'd estimate it to be 60%. I did try a 'max attempt' and will talk about it later.

To Apneaddict: I have the same "slop-reducing fluke retainer" but it just doesn't seem to cut it. May go with the glue-a-coin suggestion. I guess it's probably just me being demanding on the fin.

I did several swims and I'll relate them to my usual experience with my rocketfin.

The first was a 'max' attempt with constant kicks. I was going for a 100m but bailed at 50m because I hit my head on the wall (urghh). Long story short: unfamiliar new pool + confusing lane markings. Anyways, usually I need to do 21-24 kicks with my rocketfin to get 50m (34s pace). I had to do 34 kicks with the Lunocet . The 50m felt pretty terrible for me. That said, I acknowledge that a key strength of the Lunocet is in its glide and by doing constant kicks I've basically negated its strong points.

The next 'max' attempt was doing a double kick-glide. As with my previous post, I've found this to work best for me. I surfaced at 80m and my safety buddy said I had a slight blue tinge in my lips. This means that I've started to get a little hypoxic at 80m. Comparing with my rocketfin, I usually get that only after multiple 100m swims with 8-10mins rest in between swims. I've never gotten that at 125m (single swim).

The next couple of swims were just some 50m sprints to work up some lactic acid(enduro) and practice technique. At the end of 50m I felt some lactic acid in the calves, thighs and a little in the abs region. While this may be a testament to my technique, I've never felt it with my rocketfin with 50s. If I had to make an equivalent comparison, a 50m sprint on the Lunocet felt like a 70m on my rocket. The Lunocet also doesn't seem to be as fast as the rocket.

So here's my personal thoughts as a person looking to be a competitive freediver: While the Lunocet has some obvious strengths (glide, compact size, picking up chicks etc.) the lack of propulsion makes it a no-go for me.

I'd be keen to have a go at the Lunocet Pro and feel its improvements.

*I acknowledge that I've taken a recreational hydrotouring fin and set it against some competitive standards. For anyone who is coming from a recreation monofin swimming point-of-view, you may have different demands/standards.

 

[neurodoc]

Nice write-up and comparison! only thing I would add (Ted may want to jump in and correct me if I'm wrong?) is about the slop-reducing thingy. It's my understanding thus far, after taking the Lunocet apart and putting it back together a couple times, that the two ends/tabs of the rubber spring that go above and below the centerline of the flukes are only there to aid streamlining and not provide resistance. The connection between the far end of the spring and the mechanism is a transverse pin that goes though the farthest end of the rubber. If this pin breaks, walks, or does not engage both sides of the aluminum frame of the distal half of the peduncle, the result is "slop". The next spot that the flukes bear against ends up being the upper and lower extensions mentioned above. This doesn't seem to be nearly as effective as when the pin properly engages/anchors the distal end of the spring to the peduncle frame. You may need to look at that pin if you're getting slop, and that could improve efficiency a bit, or at least make the fin work as it was designed.

 

[vali]

lil jon
When you said Rocketfin, you meant the short and wide scuba fins? [like in the link bellow?]
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/rocket-fins
I can't do 50m in a sprint attempt but 4 years ago when I was in a better shape, I did 33m in a short pool with my monofin in 10,2 seconds...that means 3.23 m/sec. I never reach such a speed with bi-fins.
I know that in freediving the speed is no important, but I am very curious if someone with very good monofin technique can try a short distance [25m] with mono versus lunocet PRO
This is the monofin who performed the 33m in 10,2 sec. :

 

[Chipswim]

Thank you to the forum. I'm enjoying reading and swimming more. It feels like I have expert companions on the bottom of the pool each morning revealing valuable tips and insight.

Since I'm currently swimming the 2014 Lunocet and swam the previous version the issue I call flex pattern or spring personalization has become very familiar.

The Lunocet flukes have to spring back to the center position automatically at the top and bottom of each stroke or movement is wasted so it will fail to feel life-like! That leads to the ramp and coin discussions. You can find out if that adjustment is tight by handling the fin out of the water........ You want zero play. I think it is correct to say that we are using the pointed end of the spring to help with that, but it wasn't originally intended for that purpose.

The spring has a second very important job to do and that is to readilly set an angle for propulsion then resist over deflecting as power is applied. The different stiffness options seem to address that pretty well.

There were some questions about the pins and nylon shims or bearings in the peduncle hinge. Mine have seen a lot of use and abuse and still look very much like brand new parts.

What does eventually wear is the rubber spring itself. You can't see the wear when it is installed because it is the resilience of the rubber and especially the tight fit of the holes through the rubber that begin to surrender to your powerful strokes. You will know it is time for a fresh spring because your fin will not feel like you want it to. There are more and stiffer options being introduced with the Pro model. For me having a couple of extra springs on hand keeps me swimming and having optional stiffness keeps the perpetual fin. Swimming experiment alive too.

The springs will last a long time unless you swim in a pool and insist on jumping off of walls like I do. I am happy to report that it is the easily replaceable spring not the rest of the device that relaxes.

The reason walls hurt springs is that they bend further than they ever would during strokes in open water.

When I first received my current 2014 I did not use the walls fearing i'd break it. That has not proven to be the case. Eventually it occurred to me that these fins would have to with stand coming off walls to be completely accepted by pool event competitors so I thought I might as well find out the limitations.

 

[Chipswim]

One more little discovery.... I can extend the life of the spring by using simple nylon ties around the outside of the spring assembly. The ties share the pressure that the pins inside the spring normally deal with by themselves. I think a tie near the blunt end of the spring captures that area even more than the nearest internal pin can contributing to better overall feel and responsiveness.

Been doing more 50's each day and occasionally turning for a look at the 75 pass inspired by admiration for most of you who triple that!!!!!