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8th Coupe des Dauphines

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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I personally think that he did the 21+minutes without cheating. just oxygen.
My tests with O2 showed me that it nearly exactly doubled my static and dynamic results.
I also think we should not compare his style and performance with our style.
That way we cannot learn.
Skepticism yes, but we should always open minded.
 
Yes, 21+ minutes with oxygen are certainly possible, but I have really problems believing Merlini does not cheat - he does not breathe oxygen prior his +20' stunts, he is not in relaxed position before and during the apnea, he does not stop moving, he releases bubbles frequently, he does not even take a full breath before starting his breath hold, ... So if his is capable to hold his breath for real in such conditions for such a long time, he could likely do the double of it if really relaxed, and breathing oxygen directly prior the breath-hold. In other words it means he either cheats or has unnatural abilities. Not that I would want to claim it is absolutely impossible, but won't believe the guy unless he is carefully monitored long time before and during such breath-hold (including HR monitor and oximeter), x-ray examined, and drug tested.
 
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... he is not in relaxed position before and during the apnea, he does not stop moving, he releases bubbles frequently, he does not even take a full breath before starting his breath hold, ...

That post shows exactly what i meant!
Maybe he is cheating, maybe not.

But the point is that we cannot learn new techniques when we only try to explain his time with our old techniques!

I think that was also one reason why Patrick Musimu was so disappointed about the whole freediving scene.

Not open minded and ready to learn.
 
But the point is that we cannot learn new techniques when we only try to explain his time with our old techniques!

We're already familiar with the 'breathe oxygen' technique rofl

If you took it seriously every time an illusionist appeared to perform well with poor or 'alternative' technique, and tried to learn from what they were doing, you'd spend a great deal of time chasing wild geese.

But if you want to explore the 'stand up, wave your arms about and blow out heaps of air' technique, let us know how you get on :)
 
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i think it was albert einstein who said:
"a really good idea is one that seems to be impossible at the beginning"

nobody ever thought empty lung diving could be of advantage, because it simply sound silly. and still there is a chance that it is maybe the future of apnea.

just one example why i think we should forget our knowledge and look a bit closer to merlini and others:
- if i remember right from the forums here there are freedivers experimenting with self induced fear and panic during apnea. maybe thats something that we could investigate and learn from merlini.

In my point of view one reason why Herbert is kicking ass is that he is not a believer of "thats how we have to do it".

Look at his dive profile from the 120m dive, and you will see that we should think about changing our style of diving completely.
 
I have no problem with unconventional approach to breath-holding. Quite oppositely I am the first who will happily listen to such people, and experiment with it too.

However, at Merlini, Blaine, and others alike, I think that first of all you need to realize they are illusionists by profession, which means that by definition their stunts are cheats, or illusions if you want. I'll believe them the opposite only if proven by an independent commission, and supported by irrefutable evidence. And even then, I'll keep my doubts. It is hard to believe someone who is professional liar. Don't take it wrong - I do not mean it negatively, the "lying" is quite fine as long as they stay in their category, and do not try to compare their stunts with those of real athletes.

So if you ask me if I believe Merlini could have done the breath-hold without support of drugs and/or a technical trick, I tell you there is certainly such remote possibility, but sincerely I really do not believe it was the case. He is not even consistent with his own claims when explaining his ability to hold the breath. He tells it is because he controls his HR and relaxes perfectly. But when you watch him, he is everything but relaxed, and I doubt his HR drops much. Yes, I may change my opinion if he proves me the opposite, and lets independent researchers plugging him on spirometer, oximeter, HR monitor before and during the breath-hold, passes through a serious drug test, and a full body x-ray scan. Until then he remains for me exactly what he is - an illusionist.

The same case was with Blaine - he claimed to being breaking the current breath-hold world record (plain air), but in fact he was breathing oxygen prior his failed attempt. So yes, despite these people are certainly often capable of amazing things, they won't hesitate a second to lie and pretend they do something else than they really do, so why would you trust them without cross examining their claims?
 
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hello,

Here's my little 2 cents. All I know from this story is from this thread. I was not there and this is pure speculation.

Hypothesis :

1) "Show" performances aren't interesting. There are many way to cheat, even if you have no idea how. Do you know how the cut in half woman trick is done ? I don't but I don't assume that the woman was really cut in two pieces because I don't know the trick.

2) An illusionist want to give you illusion. Nothing is done by "innocence", all is about distracting you or doing something while seeming natural.

3) The story of the illusionist are pointless. He might say that he comes from 3 years naked training with dalai-lama. It's only part of the illusion.

4) When an illusionist compete under a false name in an AIDA competition, act like a crazy without knowing the rules and releasing a lot of bubbles, we will consider that he's cheating (for fun, for challenge, to test a new trick).

5) A magical trick is always easier than expected.



Thesis :

From 5), I reject idea of O2 bottle in the stomach and crazy stuff like that.


Here's the story. Mister X want to baffle the freediving community. What about a total unknown guy breaking a world record in his first competition ? Nice story. Mister X study a lot the AIDA procedure and watches video about competitions. Mister X also stops shaving his beard that day. Let say that Mister X is "quite good" at holding his breath, more than average.

The day of the competition, he walks in, under a false name, just in case someone know him by fame. He pretends not knowing anything at freediving. That's make him looking innocent. He ask for the WR and just look innocent while telling that he's slightly under.

He starts his preparation but he does nothing. He doesn't need t to do anything.

OT. He puts his face in the water. But only the face and not fully as the others. He stands on the bottom. From his mouth, he hides a very tiny snorkel. So tiny that it is hidden in his beard and, most of the time, it is immerged in the water. By moving and dancing, he creates waves. This allows the top of his hidden "snorkel" to get some air. He also need to stand very near the surface, hence the foot on the ground. Moving also allows to hide the noise of the air and to distract the attention of the jury.

Another possibility is that he's simply breathing in his beard. I've heard that it already happened that a juge heard an athlete speaking while still believing that the athlete was in the water. The noose was but not the full mouth.

Anyway, either technique don't allow you to breathe fully. It's harder and harder but, at some time, you have to gave up. Also, Mister X notes that everyone is now looking at him. Not something an illusionist want. The more he stays in the water, the more it is likely that someone will see his trick. Understanding that staying 3 minutes more with everyone looking is a no chance, he choose to stop the performance. While moving, he takes his "snorkel" and hide it in is hand (if any snorkel at all). Before surfacing, he take the hand of his coach and give him the accessorie.

Now, he does a little static but the trick was hard, he need air. To not look suspicious, he continues to have the face on the very edge of the water but he doesn't cheat anymore. That's the moment where people look the more closely and also the moment they will remember. If someone ever say he was breathing in his beard, judge will remember those last seconds : "no, he was close to the surface but I can guarantee he was not breathing".

He end and looks disappointed. That's more mysterious.

Do you think that this story is really impossible ? Certainly as much as cutting a woman in two or levitating, isn't it ?
 
Ploum,
interesting speculations but if you had been there you would realize it cannot have happened that way.
It would be useful, by the way, if the official video could be made available.
 
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