a funny (peta related)

[John P]

Freediver 7:

Thanks for your constructive comments. I don't spear fish - I never have. I only posted in this thread because I thought it was in the 'beach bar', I didn't realise it had been moved to hunting.

PETA is an American group that I don't have a lot of dealings with, however I think that you may be labeling them all bad due to the actions of a small few.

I was at some of the protests about the Newchirch guinea pigs and the people there were some of the nicest I have met. One of them was stupid enough to dig up a grave - that doesn't mean that all memers of PETA or any other amimal rights group do sort of thing.

 

[atomichaggis]

One of them? I thought four or so were convicted for their part in the conspiracy to and actual digging up of the grave of a family member of the farmers... and You think it went well?
Can You hear Yourself?

As for easter spiritualism... I lived in south east asia for a number of years, went native the whole bit, My son speaks Laotian and will join the monastery to honour His family etc. but there are only normal people at the temples who farm, hunt and fish... all the nutters live in the west.

 

[covert]

"chickens have no use exept for food" - do humans have a purpose then?

In some countries humans make good eating too :naughty:martial

 

[covert]

I love this whole meat eating / vegan battle, and everyone seems to be looking for an answer while we all carry that answer with us .... Well those under 75 without false teeth

You were born with K9's the primary function of a K9 tooth is to tear tough meat. So you were designed to eat meat, if you like it or not. If you don't eat meat that is your problem, and for heavens sake keep that to yourself then. The rest of us will continue eating meat and veg and everything else that is tasty While respecting mother nature, trying to conserve the planet for our children. And we will all be having fun doing that instead of bitching moaning and whining about it.

I hunt fish, I eat the fish I hunt. And this weekend ill be hunting again

 

[fcallagy]

do a google image search for "PETA Holocaust on Your Plate

I did the search surprised I didn;t hear more about it at the time. Thats some comparison.

 

[John P]

One of them? I thought four or so were convicted for their part in the conspiracy to and actual digging up of the grave of a family member of the farmers... and You think it went well?
Can You hear Yourself?

As for easter spiritualism... I lived in south east asia for a number of years, went native the whole bit, My son speaks Laotian and will join the monastery to honour His family etc. but there are only normal people at the temples who farm, hunt and fish... all the nutters live in the west.

I never said it went well I was just trying to point out that not all people who support amimal rights are 'extreme' infact most are not.

Are you saying that not eating animals means you must be a nutter?

Covert: I wasn't trying to get into a debate I'm just responding to comments that seem directed at me.

But since you mention it - yes we do have teeth that can eat meat. As for us being designed, I'm not so sure about that.


I enjoy debating this stuff but not in this part of the forum because it will be one sided - I think this topic should have stayed in the beach bar!

 

[covert]

lol buddy this forum would get a reaction no matter where you put it lol,

 

[deep thinker]

I dunno hey, this can go both ways. If you dont eat meat dont eat meat, now referring to the animal rights guys, they should not interfere with human rights of choice. If you want to eat meat thats your decision, if they choose to bbq mushrooms on a sunday afternoon thats their decision. I agree that there shouldnt be tests done on animals and I think the fur trade is out of hand but if fur can be bred in a sustainable manner, heck who are we to fight it. I think as long as something is done responsibly and not totally destroyed for future generations then by all means, go ahead.
As for the whole zen and due to that not eating meat, we live in amodern society where I have to say alot of it is pretty godless (except if money is a god) so people take out of past and adapt it to their own needs and I think thats the way it should be done. Take what you need and make what you want of it by combining it with the other things you have found that makes you happy and comfortable...

 

[Fondueset]

John P - did you look at any of the links Amphib and I supplied? These represent the mainstream of PETA. Moderates in that organization are a clear minority. Over the past few years PETA has crystallized into a sort of hate group.

The psychology of the VEGAN/Meat debate is, in a number of ways, similar to what is currently going on with religious fundamentalism. PETA has gone from advocating ethical treatment of animals to imposing an ideology. Using fear tactics to frighten children into vegetarianism, fear and distrust of their own parents and inflexible, dogmatic thinking. In many many cases it is dangerous for children to adhere to a vegan diet. There are numerous instances of children being severely harmed and even killed by such diets - even when properly implemented. In many cases they may not be able to properly metabolize a purely vegan diet. Diet should be a function of person, place and time - not sentimental neo-religious dogmatism.

Most of what PETA seems to represent is a basic inability to handle conscious participation in the circle of life.

 

[freedivechicago]

Here's one of the funniest animal stories I've ever heard (from another forum)

That reminds me of what happened to a friend of mine's kid. He rode his bicycle to the top of a bluff figuring he was going to shoot a deer. Well he did but little did he know he'd hit it in the head knocking off it's antlers and knocking the buck out. Here's this excited kid with what he thought was a dead deer and no way to haul it home. It was only a small buck so he got the bright idea of tying it to his bicycle. He started heading home with the buck tied right in front of him and slumped over the handle bars. What happened next was unbelievable! About the time he gets to the road the buck suddenly wakes up and starts kicking. Somehow it got it's hind feet on the petals and began to pedal faster and faster. The kid is freaked out and didn't know what to do. Then he began to realize the buck was actually steering the bike. They were going faster and faster when they came up behind a car driving slowly down the road with the driver looking in the rear view mirror. That deer passed the car with it occupant's mouths wide open. He signaled with his right foreleg, got back into his lane then careened into the ditch. The buck got the rest of himself loose and bounded off. The kid just laid there unable to believe what had just happened and trying to catch his breath. The driver of the car pulled up to see if the kid was ok.

 

[Fondueset]

Well - in the same spirit. I used to work as a naturalist at an environmental ed. camp. There was a pet skunk (descented) that lived in the barn there. We needed to take the skunk in for a rabies shot so we rounded it up, put it in a cat carrier, and drove it to the vet. We got the skunk out and put it on the exam table, comforting it prior to the shot. The vet came out and gave the skunk it's rabies shot which is when we and the vet all discovered it was the wrong skunk.

 

[John P]

Hi, Yeah I did look at the links thanks.

I agree scaring children not to trust their parents is not a good message. I think the holocaust one is not too bad. Some people may take offence because it compares humans to animals perhaps?

As for the health issue, I think plant based diets are far more healthy than meat based diets in general. It is always possible for a diet to lack the correct nutrients so some vegans will suffer from lack of these if they don't eat a healthy diet. However the biggest threat to children's health seems to be fatty food like meat products and dairy rather than veganism.

Is there really a case of someone being killed by eating a balanced vegan diet? - I find that hard to believe.

Why would a balanced vegan diet be hard to metabolize? In thoery it should be more healthy.

 

[Fondueset]

Hi John,

I understand your views. As a life long practitioner of yoga, meditation, and other energy arts I have also experimented quite a bit with diet as well as having read extensively on the subject in both traditional and contemporary documents.
Most often these types of arguments wax irrational at some point simply because veganism is frequently adopted as an emotional response to the killing of creatures that human beings can identify with anthropocentrically and onto which they project qualities which evoke emotional responses in themselves. In other words - veganism is often simply an egoic response to images that remind it of it's own mortality. There is the affectation of a connection to the natural world, but no real relationship.

You argument concerning health is not altogether unsound, but it is simplistic and provincial. The fact that a diet consisting of read meat and processed carbohydrates is unhealthy is obvious.

Personally I do not feel compelled to adopt of fixed point of view regarding what other people should eat. Nor do I object to hunting - though I personally do it only rarely and underwater. I do feel it is a very intense part of life and demands respect and conscious participation.

In the case of PETA I would venture
a quantitative model of anger as instructive. that is: anger is a substance - they are just filling the world with more of it.
Since we are engaged in this dialogue, I might suggest a more open acquaintance with views other than your own would leave you better equipped.
The Sufis, among others, regard operating from a single point of view as, at best, a crippling strategic error and, at worst; a form of insanity.

 

[covert]

Actually yes many vegan's have become ill malnourished and even had organ failures. I agree processed fatty meats are out of the question but food like anything is a question of everything in moderation is good for you. Anything you overdo is bad for you even vegetables. (mind my spelling lol) You WERE designed to eat a diet consisting of meat vegetables and fruit. That is a fact. Since for development your body needs amino acids and omega oils that is ONLY found in meat and allot of these amino acids up and till now is not reproducible in a synthetic form.

This also leads to slow brain development, lower IQ's, slowed or impaired growth in children, tooth rot, and calcium diffisiency to name just a few negative effects. Yet again pardon my spelling.

Take an example we all saw super size me. Right and we saw what it did to that guy. Thats not cuase the food is 100% bad, that happend becuase of the volume of bad food that he consumed. The exact same would have happend to his body if for instance he only had chicken for month or fish for a month. The human body just doesnt operate like that.

Moral of the story anything in moderation is good for you. Thats why people refer to a well balanced diet. anyhoo this is my last post on this topic have fun guys.

 

[John P]

Fondueset:

Thanks for your reply that's very interesting. You are right, I guess my initiall motivation to become vegetarian many years ago was emotional - I didn't even think about health at the time. More recently I became vegan and looked more ito the health issues.

I agree about trying not to have a fixed view and I try not to be judgemental about others, perhaps I have come accross so in this topic but I feel as though I've been on the defensive.

Perhaps I'm just dissapionted PETA is not the great organisation I thought it was. Maybe I was wrong to try to defend PETA.


Anyway I'm off down south for the weekend to chillout, do some diving and hopefully see some fish that I wouldn't dream of killing.

Cheers,

John.


Edit:

Covert: Are you religious? - I meant that I don't think we were DESIGNED we evolved.

Omega oils can be found in flax seeds and other plant based stuff. There are many people who have been vegan all their lives and are quite healthy. You CAN get all the nutrients you need from plants - It may take more care to make sure you don't miss out. There are a lot of commom myths about vegan/vegatarian diets around (for example vegetarians suffer from lack of iron).

Surley there are some things that are bad for you even in small quantities.

 

[spaghetti]

Anyway I'm off down south for the weekend to chillout, do some diving and hopefully see some fish that I wouldn't dream of killing.
Cheers,
John.

I highly appreciated the smart and fair discussion, the open mind everyone showed in this thread. On other forums or in other times, this subject would have turned out to be a wrestlling match. Good on you all for the fair play.
I just want to point out one thing I didn't like, and it's the word "killing" in John's last post. When I go looking for a couple of fish for dinner I never feel like I'm going "killing". I prefer to say I go "fishing". It's different. It's not just a matter of words.
You may say I'm a hypocrite cause I do actually kill the fish: I shoot and stab them and they die so that I can eat them. You may say i'm just playing with words to mistify the reality of my behaviour. But how can I explain? How could you ever believe that I highly enjoy "fishing" but do not and could never enjoy "killing" at all?

 

[Fondueset]

That's a really good point. Actually enjoying killing is not at all what this is about. PETA's attempt to characterize the motivation behind activities it does not approve of as the enjoyment of killing says more about them that about the activities or those who participate in them.

I'd regard hunting for the sake of killing as an indication of some pretty deep psychological problems.

 

[atomichaggis]

Are you saying that not eating animals means you must be a nutter?

Nope, What I'm saying is that people who live in the Far East and have lived that way of life and followed those spiritual paths for thousands of years don't act like nutters in the west who read a translated text or do a course at the leisure centre and somehow tie it in with all their other new age hippy fads like veganism, political marchs and all the other stuff they do just to be awkward.

Buddhism like freediving is very much a science of the mind and very personal... not to be politicised for some other means.

Covert also has a very valid point... Eating cooked meat was a huge evolutionary step for Human beings. This very development lead to our brains becoming larger.

Veganism = retrogression.

 

[freediver7]

I agree with ethical treatment for fish and animals. I don’t want to torture fish I want to shoot one in the head and kill it quickly. I part ways with PETA when it comes to defining what ethical treatment is.
I do not support Eco-terrorist tactics and fear mongering which too many animal rights groups practice.

 

[Amphibious]

I'd regard hunting for the sake of killing as an indication of some pretty deep psychological problems.

The Kill is the smallest and, in the long run, the most insignificant part of a hunt.