A ton of thoughts on Freediving philosophy

[serafino]

Hi guys,
The other day I was thinking about all of the disciplines and sports I participate in. Freediving and Parkour are just two of many. I think that they should share a few ideas. For people here unfamiliar with Parkour. Parkour is a self discipline. You train extremely hard and progress your movements slowly. Here is a video to see the physical movements of Parkour. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mX6g3z_yQQ]YouTube - Physical Graffiti: Parkour Is[/ame]

Now many of you say well thats dangerous. I would have to disagree. Parkour is about slow disciplined progression. So before you jump off a roof you train for a year. You start practicing technique on a 1 foot tall wall until you land it properly 100 times in a row. Then slowly and slowly build up your ability. So that next year your body is able to take that huge amount of force without any type of injury ever. Part of what makes Parkour safe is that there is absolutely no competition of any kind. If you push yourself beyond your limits you are going to get seriously hurt. or killed. I would hope that freediving becomes like Parkour. Where you go out and train with friends and you do not compare yourself to anyone else. The only person to compete with should be yourself.

I believe the same things should go for Freediving. I hope that in the future freediving won't be a competitive discipline. Competition only leads to unnecessary injury and death especially in a discipline where so much can go wrong so easily if you do not train properly. Competition adds distraction when you are distracted you lack concentration. Some people believe that a competition pushes you farther. If you discipline yourself and truly have the desire to progress then you can go just as far or long much more safely. I think that before you even start doing breath holds in the water you should become completely aware of your body. So to a new person before you even start freediving you learn what your body feels like before a blackout. That way you know your limits and don't push them too far especially when submerged in water where you can drown. So I think we should all start progressing slowly. Before we go for a new PB we make absolutely sure that it is attainable. If you decide to go for a -100m pb and the best you have ever done is -90m you are pushing yourself to hard to fast. I say you make a goal to go to -100m in a given amount of time for instance 3 weeks. In those weeks you discipline yourself you do CO2, and O2 tables on a regular basis. I workout for Parkour vigorously every other day to allow my body a day for recovery. So I think muscle condition should be a part of freediving. The you have a regular basis that you do depth training. So instead of jumping to -100m you start the day at -90m and then increase slowly so at the end of the day you have only increased to -91m and you can do it easily. So the next 9 times you train you progress slowly again until you reach your goal. This insures that your body is fully capable of doing this depth successfully every time. To minimize the risk there is I believe slow progression is absolutely necessary.

I hope this badly written post gets people thinking.
Serafino

 

[laminar]

Great post, Serafino. I feel the same way as you do.

However, one of the big challenges with freediving is that ideal training conditions are not always possible to do the 1m at a time progression. I fully agree that too many go too deep too fast and ignore the other training and conditioning that can make them better over the long term.

When you travel to a warm climate for a few weeks' of training the temptation to progress faster than your intuition tells you to can be hard to resist. Or if you only have a few months of summer to train in the ocean, many feel the pressure.

Otherwise, great explanation and parallels with parkour. Thanks for sharing.

 

[laminar]

Inspiring video, too!

 

[salibandy]

..You train extremely hard and progress your movements slowly..

I agree about the hard training, but not all movements in parkour require tremendous skill or effort to learn. Similarly for freediving. However, overlearning is probably what you mean, and I agree with that.

..Part of what makes Parkour safe is that there is absolutely no competition of any kind.. ..The only person to compete with should be yourself..

A contradiction, don't you think? I believe competition is helpful in the betterment of oneself. It pushes you and drives you. Of course there are the few undisciplined ones who knowingly push themselves too hard, and in the course of that put themselves and others in danger.

 

[Chrillepille]

I don't really agree with you. If depth is the reason you are freediving (as one is lead to believe when reading your post) competitions are good according to me. They let you dive in a very safe environment (much safer than when most people train).

When competing it is up to you if you'll be disappointed or happy with your result compared to others. Or you might just be happy with your result compared to yourself. Or you can be happy with your performance under the given circumstances.

And on pushing it to fast I think it is very personal at what speed you can progress and rules or even recommendations of e.g. 1meter/week can be as false as saying that all caucasian men are 6 foot long (or whatever the norm is). And there are tons of things you can train on land and in a pool that will make you better at depth. Therefor being careful when measuring the progression in meters in depth might not be totally accurate and also counterproductive if your freediving is about increasing in depth.

But then again, these are just my thoughts and to me freediving is alot more than just increasing the depth I can dive to.

Take care!
Christian

 

[billieball]

I think your post was good. However, the "future of freediving" will most certainly (and should most certainly) be a competitive discipline. Sure, there are dangers inherent in it...but you know the old adage about being more likely to die driving to the corner store, yada, yada. If parkour isn't yet competitive on a grander scale (e.g. outside of "self-competition), it will be one day. As a matter of fact, there are indeed competitions now. Check out:
American Parkour - Parkour and Freerunning

My point is, when a sport delves into the competition side of things, it can become more accepted by the general public. This in turn can generate more interest, better safety protcols (at least in theory), and greater improvements through sponsorship, etc. Yeah, competition also causes some people to push themselves too far, and maybe even die. These risks exist in most sports, though. The uninformed, untrained, or over-eager often take risks that professionals don't. You imply that a person who is well-skilled in parkour won't "ever" get hurt jumping from a roof...as long as that person takes small steps and trains well. I counter that by saying that no amount of training or conservativism will always achieve an injury-free endeavor. Sh*t happens.
Wish it were a perfect world, but it's not. I applaud your condoning adequate training and carefulness...but think taking freediving out of the competitive arena wouldn't do a darn bit of good.
Ciao.

 

[Erik]

Very nice video. I run LD but heights are not my thing, but nice to watch these people enjoying themselves.

I believe that our opinion about what we like to do individually, is vastly different from saying what others' should consider doing.

Peace!

 

[Fondueset]

Deleted my stupid post - not enough sleep - plus I couldn't dive all weekend!!

 

[billieball]

Oh, Fondueset, I'm sure it wasn't really stupid!

 

[azapa]

even if it was I'd love to read it!

 

[Fondueset]

Nah, it was just the usual crap about combining naked skydiving,freediving and tantric sex. I took the video down.


"I am my own evil twin" -fondueset

 

[Erik]

Fondueset's posts are GOLD, baby, GOLD!

 

[Haydn]

The thing is, a freediving competition is the one safe place where you can push your limits, even exceed them and succeed because you are more fully prepared to dive, both physically after many weeks training specific to the competition and mentally. Increasing your PB by one metre in a competition is not being competitive, those increments are best left for training. A competition is where you allow yourself the luxury of going 5 metres beyond your best, because you endeavour to make the dive when you are having the best day of your life. Surrounded by the best safety divers, doctors and protocols. You simply have faith in the safety teams and let them (if needed) to do their job. This gives you the freedom to succesfully make your attempt, even if it ends in black out or disqualification.

So if you can do , say 55m in Dorothea in winter after rubbish prep, you certainly can do 60m in the warm blue, and who cares if its deeper than you have ever been? Nobody, not even you. And when you dont care whether you succeed or not, all you have to care about is making a perfect dive and turn around somewhere near the bottom, when you feel like it. Chances are it will be deeper than 55m, but even if its less, it will be a perfect dive.

Now, I would like to be able to jump off a building and somewhere on the way down, realise its a lousy jump and simply go back. But no, I will continue to fly through the air and break a leg or neck, regardless.

The two sports cannot be compared when freerunning requires instant action and reaction whilst freediving requires an almost zen like peacefulness.

A mistake in freediving does not hurt.

 

[serafino]

it will be one day. As a matter of fact, there are indeed competitions now. Check out:
American Parkour - Parkour and Freerunning

Some of the guys at APK are screwing over the image of Parkour. I have heard of this before. They are not true traceurs more like trickers.

There was a freerunning (similar movements to parkour a completely different philosophy) competition sponsored by Red Bull and someone ended up breaking their tibia and fibia and won't be able to train again for around 10 years because of the extent of their injury.

I strongly believe against competition. We should have all the safety measures that are associated with competition but not try to outdo someone else.

Also I do not freedive for depth. I freedive for self improvement. My asthma has improved and so has my stamina since I started freediving. Not only that but freediving is the major way I wish to study the behavior of elasmobranchs.

 

[chrismar]

Heh, 80% of that vid was shot within 100m of where I'm sitting right now at work

I, like several others, think that competition is good. I consider the two sides, recreational and competitive, to be seperate but linked endeavours. Besides, if I wasn't trying to beat Kathryn, I wouldn't train nearly as hard

 

[Mullins]

Competitive freediving doesn't impact on the ability of recreational divers to enjoy themselves or pursue their own varied agendas. If you're only interested in self-improvement then, by definition, you won't give a hoot about what might be happening in the competitive scene.

If your focus is purely introspective then it's very easy to kid yourself about how well you're doing, ignore your weaknesses etc. There are many things competition forces you to face up to.

"Competition only leads to unnecessary injury and death." Really? How many deaths have occurred in AIDA competitions? How many serious injuries?

 

[jay cluskey]

i do not know of many people that go too deep too quickly , competition leads to recognition , awareness and more intrest in this sport . well said mullins . accidents happen in isolated circumstances mostly when protocols are not followed. competitions are safe enviroments
be careful up on them walls though bud

 

[cdavis]

In all the justifiable heat over competitions, etc, arising from some poorly chosen words, I think we are missing the important thing in Serafino's post, slow progression and not getting too competitive. With all the amazing knowledge available on the web and elsewhere, it is awfully easy to learn enough to hugely extend a new diver's performance, and do it fast. That doesn't mean that new diver has enough experience to be fully in command of his diving. Too much competitiveness (and I don't mean in competition) can get that diver in real trouble and he may not have trained buddies around at the critical time. Slow progression and lots of repetition rounds out those new skills and makes a diver much safer. Case in point: After I discovered DB and read up on deep diving, my pb went from the 60s to 99 ft in a couple of days, but I sure wasn't safe at that depth (and knew it). Another: I train with a young diver who has lots of potential, but maybe a bit too much competitiveness. Today I showed him a simple trick and he jumped his practice dive pb from 2 to 2.5 minutes at one crack. He looks good, but that sure doesn't mean he is completely safe at 2.5 and now I watch him real close.

All you young guys, learning all the stuff you can find here, its a good thing to take it slow.

Connor

 

[hunlee]

Very interesting discussion. I've been freediving for ten years and have had serious hate/love feelings towards the competitive side.
More about that on a very personal story I wrote here:
iamwater.co.za - dolphin-blog
I'm also an instructor and judge, so the thoughts and ideas in this thread are my bread and butter. I think (as others have also mentioned) it's all just individual.
The fact that I almost stopped freediving cause competition stress killed it for me, doesn't mean I want competitions to be stopped, but I sure needed to reassess my own approach to competing. And I don't think competitions are dangerous, on the contrary, they are the safest place to dive. But to be honest, as a seasoned competition safety diver, man, some people push the whole 'there are good safety divers here, let me push my limits to the beyonds' a bit too far. And I've actually had to have a word with people after you've pulled them up from the depths to the point of tedium, BUT this is way unusual.
I love parkour, and I think it's great that it's not competitive, it's beautiful and it's beauty, I think, needn't be measured, freediving however, can be measured, metres, seconds... it's just up to each individual to hold onto freediving's beauty throgh competitions as well... I almost lost it once, won't do it again!
But dammit Serafino, now you got me wanting to start jumping off stuff beautifully too!!!!

Hanli

 

[DeepThought]

The thing is, a freediving competition is the one safe place where you can push your limits, even exceed them and succeed because you are more fully prepared to dive, both physically after many weeks training specific to the competition and mentally. Increasing your PB by one metre in a competition is not being competitive, those increments are best left for training. A competition is where you allow yourself the luxury of going 5 metres beyond your best, because you endeavour to make the dive when you are having the best day of your life. Surrounded by the best safety divers, doctors and protocols. You simply have faith in the safety teams and let them (if needed) to do their job. This gives you the freedom to succesfully make your attempt, even if it ends in black out or disqualification.

So if you can do , say 55m in Dorothea in winter after rubbish prep, you certainly can do 60m in the warm blue, and who cares if its deeper than you have ever been? Nobody, not even you. And when you dont care whether you succeed or not, all you have to care about is making a perfect dive and turn around somewhere near the bottom, when you feel like it. Chances are it will be deeper than 55m, but even if its less, it will be a perfect dive.

Now, I would like to be able to jump off a building and somewhere on the way down, realise its a lousy jump and simply go back. But no, I will continue to fly through the air and break a leg or neck, regardless.

The two sports cannot be compared when freerunning requires instant action and reaction whilst freediving requires an almost zen like peacefulness.

A mistake in freediving does not hurt.

I strongly disagree with your last sentence, and with the message of your post.

I think one's first objective should be to never LMC/BO or get squeezed. The best way to ensure that is slow progress.

If you're willing to risk a BO, how can you ensure it won't be a severe one? If you were already diving over your abilities and had to spend a few extra seconds to find the tag or release the lanyard (things that happen to atleast one diver in every depth competition, no?) you might BO at 15m, if you also got squeezed (not acclimatized to the depth+effort at depth+stress induced contractions) your BO could be 0.5-2minutes long... How can you say that this doesn't hurt? we just don't know that. Though I think the squeeze alone should be enough to deter anyone from advancing too fast.

If I was training with someone and he told me he is going to attempt breaking his PB by a large margin then I might've refused to be his safety diver.

PS: my second objective is to enjoy the dive.