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Advanced monofins
- Thread starterjome
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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my friend once had a Model 1 medium distance, and i thought it was very stiff. too stiff for freediving i thought. the designs are always changing so they one you have may well be softer and more suitable for long distance apnea.
i have a long distance model 2 and i think it's good for fresh water but i think it's too stiff for saltwater (red sea anyway). i really notice the difference the first few times i use it after arriving in Dahab, and again after arriving home.
i find i used to suffer more leg fatigue in Dahab than in fresh water at home. i think it's because i'm working harder against the dense water. i'll eventually get myself one fin for fresh and another for the red sea.
i have a long distance model 2 and i think it's good for fresh water but i think it's too stiff for saltwater (red sea anyway). i really notice the difference the first few times i use it after arriving in Dahab, and again after arriving home.
i find i used to suffer more leg fatigue in Dahab than in fresh water at home. i think it's because i'm working harder against the dense water. i'll eventually get myself one fin for fresh and another for the red sea.
Alun
is model 2 slightly narrower than model 1? Also does medium distance mean medium stiffness? I found that to get the full benefit of a stiff fin I had to 1) do some leg strength exercises like hill runs and gymwork on the quads and 2) learn to undulate properly, using the abs and back efficiently as well as the legs.
So I am moving onto a larger stiff fin. My thinking is that a wider longer fin would suit my height better. That's why I think the relatively small carbon dolphin from specialfins is ideal for shorter divers.
is model 2 slightly narrower than model 1? Also does medium distance mean medium stiffness? I found that to get the full benefit of a stiff fin I had to 1) do some leg strength exercises like hill runs and gymwork on the quads and 2) learn to undulate properly, using the abs and back efficiently as well as the legs.
So I am moving onto a larger stiff fin. My thinking is that a wider longer fin would suit my height better. That's why I think the relatively small carbon dolphin from specialfins is ideal for shorter divers.
yes, narrower and slightly shorter too i think. yes, medium distance is stiffer than long distance. BUT you often find that the stiffness varies a lot between the same type of fin. you might come across two model2 long distance fins and they may be totally different - if they were built at different times.
working on the muscles will help for sure. rather than pure strength i think a better exercise is hard anaerobic work that builds up lots of lactic acid over a period of about 60-90secs. also isometric exercises using a leg extension machine to work the VMOs. i think some fins are just too stiff for deep diving, no matter how fit your legs are - not saying that yours is too stiff. it's all relative anyway. what's fine for a 30m dive may not be fine for a 100m dive.
working on the muscles will help for sure. rather than pure strength i think a better exercise is hard anaerobic work that builds up lots of lactic acid over a period of about 60-90secs. also isometric exercises using a leg extension machine to work the VMOs. i think some fins are just too stiff for deep diving, no matter how fit your legs are - not saying that yours is too stiff. it's all relative anyway. what's fine for a 30m dive may not be fine for a 100m dive.
Indeed Tbird, taller divers need in general bigger fins, but I don't know the exact formula for that.
I have not noticed any difference in sweet and salt water, but I think it could be a valid influence and should be examined. Good point Alun!
The Model 1 is indeed wider, and a bit longer.
The fins indeed change and no delivery is exactly the same as the previous is a thing I heart from many different sources. My fin are from 2003. I see a waterway fin as a good entry fin, capeble of very impressive perfomances. Think about Carlos Coste's WR's. But the next level up is the wing design, and I love to get my hands on some of these. The best availe I think is the E 1000 tailor made fin, but euhm I will adept my style to the fin for a while, since I don't have the cash to do it the other way arround!
I'm still wondering where all the people are that have more experience with different monofins?
Love, Peace and Water!
Kars
I have not noticed any difference in sweet and salt water, but I think it could be a valid influence and should be examined. Good point Alun!
The Model 1 is indeed wider, and a bit longer.
The fins indeed change and no delivery is exactly the same as the previous is a thing I heart from many different sources. My fin are from 2003. I see a waterway fin as a good entry fin, capeble of very impressive perfomances. Think about Carlos Coste's WR's. But the next level up is the wing design, and I love to get my hands on some of these. The best availe I think is the E 1000 tailor made fin, but euhm I will adept my style to the fin for a while, since I don't have the cash to do it the other way arround!
I'm still wondering where all the people are that have more experience with different monofins?
Love, Peace and Water!
Kars
i have that finAlun said:
My mono is the first of its kind
i send my desgn to leaderfins and they built it for me, because i have no time ... Now it is in asortiment of leaderfins ... I wanted first to order perfect mono , desgned by myself and simulated in Nummeric, with different design than actual monofins, but it is very expencive to built a such mono. Also Materials that i wanted to use are very expencive ... at the end it isnt worth it ... because the is no need in such monofin. Thats why i went for dolphin design with angle wings and and and. .. because its payable and fits good to other equipment ...
I didnt tested it yet properly, because i have no time and have a lot to study
it is bit biger that standart mono. LF made the blade with one directed Carbon Roving fibre layer and many thin glasfibre layers on the back, so that it looks not as carbon. I dont realy like the angle on the blade, but i have to test first, before i change anything on it.
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I've had the Flyer for a couple of weeks now and wrote a small review of it:
http://www.freedivingfinland.net/nuke/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=206
Comments and questions are welcome. I still need more time with it to give an extensive opinnion, but so far it's pretty good (not as good as I hoped, but definately worth the price that I paid for it)
http://www.freedivingfinland.net/nuke/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=206
Comments and questions are welcome. I still need more time with it to give an extensive opinnion, but so far it's pretty good (not as good as I hoped, but definately worth the price that I paid for it)
Interesting article. Definatly good price!
I take it you are not wearing a sock with the mono?
I have had my carbon freediving mono made by special fins for about 2 weeks now as well.
I really like it. Although it is my first mono it is very comfortable to wear it for hours on end and the performances have definatly increaced by using a mono fin.
I take it you are not wearing a sock with the mono?
I have had my carbon freediving mono made by special fins for about 2 weeks now as well.
I really like it. Although it is my first mono it is very comfortable to wear it for hours on end and the performances have definatly increaced by using a mono fin.
Hi All,
interesting thread. I am also tempted to get one of the new generation mono's. I have briefly tried the leaderfin's Hyper from Ryuzo. He was using it just for dynamic, and normally uses a Breier Carbon monofin for constant. The Breier have pretty lousy footpockets, blade seems ok though. Anyway the Hyper fin seemed good but felt very wierd to me used to a waterway. The extreme angle would take quite some practise and technique change so I couldn't draw any conclusions from using it. Ryuzo definitely likes it and thinks it gives him a bit more distance. I personally have Water way monofins, although have ordered variations from standard fins. What most people don't know is that they make 3 different FOOTPOCKETS, soft medium and hard. Normally they put the soft on the LD, the Medium on the MD and stiff on the sprint fin.
My constant fin is halfway in stiffness between a LD1 and a MD1 with the stiffest footpockets. There is no give in the footpockets and I don't lose any power transfer. The footpockets are a 'normal' size for me, I don't recomend sizing down as you can only do damage to your foot, ie tendons etc. For me the Medium fin is way too stiff and the LD1 way too soft for constant. I just ordered the custom stiffness blade and they made it.
My dynamic fin is a 'stiff' LD1 with a medium footpocket. The Medium footpocket actually make the fin feel a little stiffer as there is no bending at the footpocket. It's not a custom stiffness as above, the people from waterway just found the stiffest LD1 they had. There are normal variations in the batches. I also ordered a Model 2 Long Distance but didn't like it much compared to the model 1. It doesn't seem like much difference in size but it felt a lot softer, ie had to do more kicks with it. Anyway I sold it.
I can see an advantage to the angled blades. I would consider a constant fin and a dynamic fin separately. ie Dynamic softer - +floatation, Constant harder Neutral bouyancy if possible. Would like an angled blade for both.
Other fins I have tried :-
I have tried a friends special fins and didn't like the blade or the omer footpockets. I know that a lot of people that have tried the special fins coloured blades ie white or blue, like the standard 'dolphin' don't like the power or lack their of it from the blade. The fibre glass is rubish, maybe they use the wrong resin or something, very poor reactivity, ie flex & return or 'snap'. The Special fins carbon blades fins are pretty good, as are the 'old school' yellow blades. I have also tried a NZ made 'Henk' fin, they are no where near as good as a water way. I don't think he makes them anymore which is good because he was very dodgy. I paid him for a fin that I never got. :naughty
Waterway sprint fins are very very stiff and no good for freediving at all. A Medium waterway is probably closer to an 'extra hard' in the special fins stiffness scale.
Cheers,
Wal
interesting thread. I am also tempted to get one of the new generation mono's. I have briefly tried the leaderfin's Hyper from Ryuzo. He was using it just for dynamic, and normally uses a Breier Carbon monofin for constant. The Breier have pretty lousy footpockets, blade seems ok though. Anyway the Hyper fin seemed good but felt very wierd to me used to a waterway. The extreme angle would take quite some practise and technique change so I couldn't draw any conclusions from using it. Ryuzo definitely likes it and thinks it gives him a bit more distance. I personally have Water way monofins, although have ordered variations from standard fins. What most people don't know is that they make 3 different FOOTPOCKETS, soft medium and hard. Normally they put the soft on the LD, the Medium on the MD and stiff on the sprint fin.
My constant fin is halfway in stiffness between a LD1 and a MD1 with the stiffest footpockets. There is no give in the footpockets and I don't lose any power transfer. The footpockets are a 'normal' size for me, I don't recomend sizing down as you can only do damage to your foot, ie tendons etc. For me the Medium fin is way too stiff and the LD1 way too soft for constant. I just ordered the custom stiffness blade and they made it.
My dynamic fin is a 'stiff' LD1 with a medium footpocket. The Medium footpocket actually make the fin feel a little stiffer as there is no bending at the footpocket. It's not a custom stiffness as above, the people from waterway just found the stiffest LD1 they had. There are normal variations in the batches. I also ordered a Model 2 Long Distance but didn't like it much compared to the model 1. It doesn't seem like much difference in size but it felt a lot softer, ie had to do more kicks with it. Anyway I sold it.
I can see an advantage to the angled blades. I would consider a constant fin and a dynamic fin separately. ie Dynamic softer - +floatation, Constant harder Neutral bouyancy if possible. Would like an angled blade for both.
Other fins I have tried :-
I have tried a friends special fins and didn't like the blade or the omer footpockets. I know that a lot of people that have tried the special fins coloured blades ie white or blue, like the standard 'dolphin' don't like the power or lack their of it from the blade. The fibre glass is rubish, maybe they use the wrong resin or something, very poor reactivity, ie flex & return or 'snap'. The Special fins carbon blades fins are pretty good, as are the 'old school' yellow blades. I have also tried a NZ made 'Henk' fin, they are no where near as good as a water way. I don't think he makes them anymore which is good because he was very dodgy. I paid him for a fin that I never got. :naughty
Waterway sprint fins are very very stiff and no good for freediving at all. A Medium waterway is probably closer to an 'extra hard' in the special fins stiffness scale.
Cheers,
Wal
Something I just remembered. Everyone does the 'fin hand test' to compare relative stiffness of the blades. My waterway always seemed very soft compared to other peoples fins. But something I only noticed last year was that the waterway blade is stiffer in one direction of flex then the other. Ie on the power phase it is much stiffer then the return phase. It's to do with the construction of the reinforcement 'pattern' on the underside, and also the slight curve in the blade. I don't know how all the other fins are but I know the special fins carbon feels totally the same in both directions of flex. Anyone else ever noticed this with their fins ?
Anyway be wary of this when just trying to determine stiffness by hand in that it may not be the same in both directions of flex.
Anyway be wary of this when just trying to determine stiffness by hand in that it may not be the same in both directions of flex.
Hi.
I love the Flyer,but it hurst a lot(only 15 min using it is my PB),so i modified the footpocket,and now i can use it forever with 2mm shocks,and is perfect fit...
Rafa
I love the Flyer,but it hurst a lot(only 15 min using it is my PB),so i modified the footpocket,and now i can use it forever with 2mm shocks,and is perfect fit...
Rafa
Rafacuatic it looks good. It looks like the neopren, but i guess it isnt. What is your PB in using it now? or the same? what about power transfer?
I have narrow feet, but even with my feet the footpockets are to narrow. 2 mm socks is the limit. 20min was my PB. Mostly because of area near to foot joint, the same area where Rafacuatic modified his footpockets
I have narrow feet, but even with my feet the footpockets are to narrow. 2 mm socks is the limit. 20min was my PB. Mostly because of area near to foot joint, the same area where Rafacuatic modified his footpockets
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Hi,
its not neopren,its hard rubber(no flexible).Now, i can use it for hours ,and the power transfer is better(i have narrow feet also).i think,you don't need a footpocket hurting to work good,the key is to have the right shape,like running shoes..
Rafa
its not neopren,its hard rubber(no flexible).Now, i can use it for hours ,and the power transfer is better(i have narrow feet also).i think,you don't need a footpocket hurting to work good,the key is to have the right shape,like running shoes..
Rafa
Hi Jome, can you put some side photo's of the fin on your website, I would love to compare the angle of the food to the blade of the fin. Perhabs shovle a strait messure stick in, to be paralel on the inside of the footpocked, fill it up with paper to keep it in place for the photo.
I feel like buying a hyper, but I wonder how the inside is formed, does it fit nicely etc. I quess I want to try first before I buy.
Is a heavy monofin not a disadvantage when one goes into the sinking phase? Tobbleing over because of the topweightedness?
Thanks for the nice review!
Kars.
I feel like buying a hyper, but I wonder how the inside is formed, does it fit nicely etc. I quess I want to try first before I buy.
Is a heavy monofin not a disadvantage when one goes into the sinking phase? Tobbleing over because of the topweightedness?
Thanks for the nice review!
Kars.
I don't have a hyper my self, but I'll ask if Kimmo can arrange such a photo. I can do the same with the flyer.
The sinking fin in freefall is a good question and I guess we'll know only when someone actually tries it I'm not too concerned though, I would think that the water flow will keep it straight, unless you're dropping really slow.
The sinking fin in freefall is a good question and I guess we'll know only when someone actually tries it
I'm not too concerned though, I would think that the water flow will keep it straight, unless you're dropping really slow.
Awesome thread!
So, which one of these could be used for long distance surface swimming- around 5km? It doesn't matter if the footpocket compresses at depth as the lake I'm thinking of using it in is only 15 meters deep. I can see where a more painful footpocket is fine for a quick dynamic, or constant, dive but having a fin that could be used for an all-morning swim outing, that doesn't sacrafice power, would be nice.
Also Wal,
Which of the footpocket models to you fins best from waterway? I think I must have the medium since I have a #2 LD. I wonder if a different sitffness of footpocket would make it any more comfortable? I also now realise that I may have too large a footpocket on my waterway and that may be causeing problems as well.:head
Jon
So, which one of these could be used for long distance surface swimming- around 5km? It doesn't matter if the footpocket compresses at depth as the lake I'm thinking of using it in is only 15 meters deep. I can see where a more painful footpocket is fine for a quick dynamic, or constant, dive but having a fin that could be used for an all-morning swim outing, that doesn't sacrafice power, would be nice.
Also Wal,
Which of the footpocket models to you fins best from waterway? I think I must have the medium since I have a #2 LD. I wonder if a different sitffness of footpocket would make it any more comfortable? I also now realise that I may have too large a footpocket on my waterway and that may be causeing problems as well.:head
Jon
Walrus said:
Walrus,
Very good post mate. I noticed one thing the other day while showing my special fins carbon to a friend of mine. The blade is made up of one layer of carbon fiberglass. I can tell this because if you hold the fin up to the sun you can actually see through the blade equally from leading edge to footpocket and there is no evidence of another layer of carbon fiberglass.
This has to be why these fins feel the same stiffness in both directions. My fin is a hard blade. The only way I can figure they call this a hard blade with only one layup is the ounce of glass used to make the fin and the stiffness of the wing that tapers down twards the edge.
I do like the way your waterway fin is stiff on the power stroke and soft on the return. Makes total sence to me. Does waterway ship directly to you in Australia and how long does shipping take? Just wondering because I am just a bit north. Guam.
Cheers,
Jay