-
Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:
- Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
- Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
- Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
- Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
- All this and much more...
You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!
Advanced monofins
- Thread starterjome
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Hi,
I was wondering if anyone can tell me how leaderfins "soft" and "medium" stiffness compare to waterway ?
I am looking at getting a leaderfins hyper, but not sure what stiffness to get. I currently use a waterway LD1 for dynamics, and want a similar stiffness. I know a waterway medium is probably closer to a "hard" or "extra hard" in sebak/special fins stifness so very different grading systems.
Thanks,
Wal
I was wondering if anyone can tell me how leaderfins "soft" and "medium" stiffness compare to waterway ?
I am looking at getting a leaderfins hyper, but not sure what stiffness to get. I currently use a waterway LD1 for dynamics, and want a similar stiffness. I know a waterway medium is probably closer to a "hard" or "extra hard" in sebak/special fins stifness so very different grading systems.
Thanks,
Wal
Walrus,
I've never tried a waterway, but as far as the "medium" flyer I got, I'm starting to wish I'd maybe gone with soft. At least for dyn...It's not a disaster, in fact it works pretty good, but at least I would not get a harder one.
Having had the fin for a few months now I must warn you, that the footpockets are very, very uncomfortable. They are obviously designed for relatively short sessions in finswimming, and not for wearing a couple of hours in open water. The performance is great, but comfort was not the first priority...So if you go with hyper or flyer, I'd say get a fin that is at least one size "too large".
I still cannot wear mine for more than 10 min tops, and same with the other guy that ordered with me. That does not mean it's comfortable for 10 minutes, but after that, the pain is just so intense, you cannot ignore it no matter what...
I must say it has pertty much killed my motivation to train with the monofin intensly...I'll have to modify the pockets when I have time somehow...
I've never tried a waterway, but as far as the "medium" flyer I got, I'm starting to wish I'd maybe gone with soft. At least for dyn...It's not a disaster, in fact it works pretty good, but at least I would not get a harder one.
Having had the fin for a few months now I must warn you, that the footpockets are very, very uncomfortable. They are obviously designed for relatively short sessions in finswimming, and not for wearing a couple of hours in open water. The performance is great, but comfort was not the first priority...So if you go with hyper or flyer, I'd say get a fin that is at least one size "too large".
I still cannot wear mine for more than 10 min tops, and same with the other guy that ordered with me. That does not mean it's comfortable for 10 minutes, but after that, the pain is just so intense, you cannot ignore it no matter what...
I must say it has pertty much killed my motivation to train with the monofin intensly...I'll have to modify the pockets when I have time somehow...
Has anyone experience with the newest Waterway Glide fins, or do you know someone with the experiance?
I have some questions:
1) is it nutral under water? - If it isn't how much positive/negative?
2) is it nutral at the depth of 40m? - If it isn't how much positive/negative? In other words, is the rubber used much compresseble? because I want to use it for depth too.
3) how much does it weight above water?
4) is the inside of the footpocked anatomical shaped? (this is what I sort of miss in the model 1 I currently have.)
5) do you have more choice of color than the brown model on your side? (silver blade and black footpocked would look cool in my view)
6) can you point me to some reviews or users of the Glide fin?
Thanks
Kars
I have some questions:
1) is it nutral under water? - If it isn't how much positive/negative?
2) is it nutral at the depth of 40m? - If it isn't how much positive/negative? In other words, is the rubber used much compresseble? because I want to use it for depth too.
3) how much does it weight above water?
4) is the inside of the footpocked anatomical shaped? (this is what I sort of miss in the model 1 I currently have.)
5) do you have more choice of color than the brown model on your side? (silver blade and black footpocked would look cool in my view)
6) can you point me to some reviews or users of the Glide fin?
Thanks
Kars
Hi.
I used WW LD1 for DYN,and now i have Leaderfins Flyer Medium Freediving and the blade is softer , no too much ,but the mono is more efective, hydrodinamic and easy to use.I modifyed the footpockets for comfort.
I am in Azores for a comp with Herbert Nistch.He tryed my mono and he was very impresed with it and used it for the comp.there are some photos in freedivecentral.com
Adios
I used WW LD1 for DYN,and now i have Leaderfins Flyer Medium Freediving and the blade is softer , no too much ,but the mono is more efective, hydrodinamic and easy to use.I modifyed the footpockets for comfort.
I am in Azores for a comp with Herbert Nistch.He tryed my mono and he was very impresed with it and used it for the comp.there are some photos in freedivecentral.com
Adios
Hi,
Whether somebody can help in such question: Is monos with smooth blades and with blades on which in a front part a crescent rubber strengthening. What essential differences and advantages of one before others. What variant is more preferable to pool and the open water?
Whether somebody can help in such question: Is monos with smooth blades and with blades on which in a front part a crescent rubber strengthening. What essential differences and advantages of one before others. What variant is more preferable to pool and the open water?
Just want to bump this thread up again. Has anyone had any more experience with the advanced monos? A training buddy recently came back from Russia having trained for a couple of days with Natalia M and bought a mono recommended by her. It was hand made in the same style as the Andronov types (probably the same as Trulalla wrote about earlier) and I think it was around the UDS$350 mark. The footpockets were a little small for me (they have a closed heel/open heel hybrid pocket with a piece of rubber covering the heel as well as the open heel strap around the achilles) as my foot was too long for the bottom piece of rubber covering my heel, but even so it felt far superior to the WW M1 I currently use. The arch support in the packet is fantastic, changes the whole structure of the pocket. The blade is much further back (the blade starts around the middle of the foot on the WW's) and as a result has more thrust out of each undulation. The blade itself I wasn't sure of the stiffness, seemed to be similar to my WW hybrid long/middle distance blade, but hard to tell as the wing on the blade added to the stiffness.
The first sensation I felt on my first lap was that my cheeks were wobbling with the speed rofl . Using my usual technique meant that I was going a hell of a lot quicker for the same amount of energy. The additional weight in the fin made my speed more consistent, without the speeding up and slowing down I get with the WW's. It didn't look like a bigger fin but it certainly felt like one.
This fin is amazing! Having spent the rest of the weekend dreaming about it I have to get one. I'm curious about constant weight as although my training buddy said he was told it's fine for constant, I have my doubts with the amount of compressible rubber on it.
Don't get me wrong, I love my WW's fin but these advanced fins are another thing entirely. I always thought i'd work on technique until I maxed out my dynamics, then buy an advanced mono to give me the additional edge, but I don't think I can wait that long (have a birthday coming too...
).
So 'fess up people... anyone else have experience with these fins?
Cheers,
Ben
The first sensation I felt on my first lap was that my cheeks were wobbling with the speed rofl . Using my usual technique meant that I was going a hell of a lot quicker for the same amount of energy. The additional weight in the fin made my speed more consistent, without the speeding up and slowing down I get with the WW's. It didn't look like a bigger fin but it certainly felt like one.
This fin is amazing! Having spent the rest of the weekend dreaming about it I have to get one. I'm curious about constant weight as although my training buddy said he was told it's fine for constant, I have my doubts with the amount of compressible rubber on it.
Don't get me wrong, I love my WW's fin but these advanced fins are another thing entirely. I always thought i'd work on technique until I maxed out my dynamics, then buy an advanced mono to give me the additional edge, but I don't think I can wait that long (have a birthday coming too...
).So 'fess up people... anyone else have experience with these fins?
Cheers,
Ben
OceanMan said:
I have an Armenian middle man... he speaks a little Russian. Failing that, I have an old girlfriend in Australia who speaks Russian. Failing that, there's http://babelfish.altavista.com/ .
Might be safer to try the bablefish option before the ex-girlfriend
Well all I can say is that a similar experience prompted me to start this thread
Haven't been able to get my hands on one though. I consider the flyer a good fin, but it's not the "holy grail" of fins that I once tried...Which sounds pretty much like you describe it. I guess there is a lot of different types of the "russian wing"-type floating around, clones or relatives of the Andronov. If you can find one that has the right size pockets and the right stiffness, you'll want to hold on to it
Haven't been able to get my hands on one though. I consider the flyer a good fin, but it's not the "holy grail" of fins that I once tried...Which sounds pretty much like you describe it. I guess there is a lot of different types of the "russian wing"-type floating around, clones or relatives of the Andronov. If you can find one that has the right size pockets and the right stiffness, you'll want to hold on to it
Hi All,
I am also in the market for an 'Andronov' type fin. I have tried my friend Ryuzo's Leaderfins "Hyper Proffesional" and it is excellent, I'd guess it is about on par with the Andronov copy that Ben tried. It's a bit hard to know for sure unless you had both fins side by side. I've seen Ant Williams's fin and he also got it from Natalia so should be the same fin as the one Ben tried. As far as I can tell the Hyper Proffesional looks exactly the same. It isn't the same as the normal Hyper model and has much more positive bouyancy. Unfortunately there is a longer turnaround in getting the "Proffesional" model as the footpockets are handmade, hence the bigger price tag. I was also told they are working on current orders for these so expect 2-3 month turnaround. For those interested I have cut & pasted my questions and a response from Leaderfins regarding the 4 different models of Hyper, Flyer and the Professional versions.
I am also in the market for an 'Andronov' type fin. I have tried my friend Ryuzo's Leaderfins "Hyper Proffesional" and it is excellent, I'd guess it is about on par with the Andronov copy that Ben tried. It's a bit hard to know for sure unless you had both fins side by side. I've seen Ant Williams's fin and he also got it from Natalia so should be the same fin as the one Ben tried. As far as I can tell the Hyper Proffesional looks exactly the same. It isn't the same as the normal Hyper model and has much more positive bouyancy. Unfortunately there is a longer turnaround in getting the "Proffesional" model as the footpockets are handmade, hence the bigger price tag. I was also told they are working on current orders for these so expect 2-3 month turnaround. For those interested I have cut & pasted my questions and a response from Leaderfins regarding the 4 different models of Hyper, Flyer and the Professional versions.
Last edited:
Wal, thanks for sharing the information on your Leaderfins detective work (Guy here from NZ btw, who had the static BO in the Taupo comp).
I was leaning this way already, but with your info I've decided to invest in a Hyper Pro as my first mono. Will put the order in shortly. God knows I need some help with my dynamics...
Although my wallet would prefer to go with a "generalist" mono for both CW and dynamics, 90% of our practice is pool based here, and I can buy a mono for CW further down the track, assuming I win the national lottery
I was leaning this way already, but with your info I've decided to invest in a Hyper Pro as my first mono. Will put the order in shortly. God knows I need some help with my dynamics...
Although my wallet would prefer to go with a "generalist" mono for both CW and dynamics, 90% of our practice is pool based here, and I can buy a mono for CW further down the track, assuming I win the national lottery
Hi Oceanman - I can't see it on that website, but it is very similar to most of the winged designs there, probably closest to the Gipper (second one with the yellow/black footpockets) and the Hyperfin. The one I tried had a small piece of foam trimming going down the sides too.
Cheers,
Ben
Cheers,
Ben
I should qualify my statement a bit - they all look relatively the same, I can't say how they'll perform though.
My impression is that the new "advanced" monos are (mostly) all based off the Andronov design which which I guess you could refer to as "next generation" design. Each of these other monos embraces aspects of the next gen design and I suspect they are not all that different from each other. Each will differ with things such as blade stiffness, footpocket design, bouyancy and quality, but overall they're pretty similar looking and would all probably perform better in the pool than the more traditional waterways, specialfins etc.
But without being able to try them all it's hard to compare against each other, as everyone on this forum providing advice all have personal opinions on what works best for them, which is not necessarily the best for yourself. It's still a good indicator though to weigh up everyone's pro's and con's and compare them.
Cheers,
Ben
My impression is that the new "advanced" monos are (mostly) all based off the Andronov design which which I guess you could refer to as "next generation" design. Each of these other monos embraces aspects of the next gen design and I suspect they are not all that different from each other. Each will differ with things such as blade stiffness, footpocket design, bouyancy and quality, but overall they're pretty similar looking and would all probably perform better in the pool than the more traditional waterways, specialfins etc.
But without being able to try them all it's hard to compare against each other, as everyone on this forum providing advice all have personal opinions on what works best for them, which is not necessarily the best for yourself. It's still a good indicator though to weigh up everyone's pro's and con's and compare them.
Cheers,
Ben
I received my Leaderfins Freediving Hyper yesterday and I thought I'd offer my opinions on it, given not many people seem to have tried them yet. My current (well, previous) fin is a WW MD1 and I have also used a Mat Mas carbon/kevlar for a few months (kindly loaned to me by John Wright).
I've only had a chance to do one pool session with the Hyper so this is very much my first impressions. Anyway, it's a heavy beast out of the water - there seem to be several kilos worth of rubber in the wings and footpockets. The rubber must displace a fair bit though, because underwater that weight drops to maybe 500g. I didn't feel a sensation of weight when swimming and was able to glide ok with it without my legs dropping. I'm not sure how a 'floating' mono would be an improvement, but then again I haven't tried one.
The blade angle and distance between footpocket and blade are two features of the new generation monos that have been mentioned a few times on this thread and others. I found the angle to be a great improvement over my Waterway MD1 - I was able to bend less at the knees and glide much more easily between strokes (on the glide phase of a deep dive with the flat-bladed waterway I need to have my knees bent a fair bit, not particularly hydrodynamic). The angle on the Hyper is about right for me, I am only a couple of degrees off being streamlined with my legs dead straight.
While the blade is significantly softer than the MD waterway when flexed by hand(it is 'Medium' stiffness, their second softest blade), underwater it feels almost identical in terms of stiffness. This is probably because the fin tip is several inches further from my feet and so is moved further by each kick. I'd hazard a guess this is a good thing (because you can have a lower amplitude kick for a given stroke width at the blade, lower amplitude = less resistance) but difficult to quantify, especially as I'm a freediver not a finswimmer - I have to go by subjective measures like how many metres I cover before getting contractions.
Speaking of which, I was getting contractions at about 65m on average with the new fin. Normally I get them around 50-55m, however this does vary between training sessions so I can't yet say the change has given me an extra 10m :martial it would be nice if it does though, 10m is pretty hard to come by these days...
Over medium distances I was feeling about average, slight leg burn setting in coming up to 100m which is normal for me. Again however, one training session is not enough to say anything for certain.
One downside of the fin is the footpockets - despite deliberately ordering a size on the small side of what I thought I'd need, they are quite loose. My toes are butting up against the end, but the tops of my feet are free to move a bit and this means that all the load goes on my toes - definitely not comfortable! I will have to look at gluing some rubber strips under the tops of the footpockets or wearing booties with thick rubber uppers to pack out the space and distribute some of the load to the arches of my feet. I'll talk to Leaderfins anyway, see what they recommend. They may have a quick solution so no point criticising the mono without looking into this first.
This fin is really for Constant Weight - otherwise I would have got the standard Hyper based on what people had said about the advantages of floating fins. I'm hoping to try it out in Lake Taupo this weekend. Hoisting all that weight out of the water on a duck dive should make it easier for me to get under without an arm-stroke, anyway
Oh, and the build quality is pretty decent. It's clear that most of the work was done by hand - the footpockets are made of several components that have been cut into shape and glued together, then ground down to the finished shape. It's not a fine work of art, but it's solidly built and the workmanship is more than good enough for its purpose. There are several spaces in the footpockets that fill with water and leak afterwards, hopefully there aren't any trapped air spaces that will compress at depth. However I suspect the volume of these, if they do exist, will be pretty negligible.
Pretty happy with the fin, I just hope I can get the footpocket issue sorted. every other aspect is fine, but that's not much help if I'm losing all my power through my feet sliding around. I reckon some sort of packing material will do the job.
I've only had a chance to do one pool session with the Hyper so this is very much my first impressions. Anyway, it's a heavy beast out of the water - there seem to be several kilos worth of rubber in the wings and footpockets. The rubber must displace a fair bit though, because underwater that weight drops to maybe 500g. I didn't feel a sensation of weight when swimming and was able to glide ok with it without my legs dropping. I'm not sure how a 'floating' mono would be an improvement, but then again I haven't tried one.
The blade angle and distance between footpocket and blade are two features of the new generation monos that have been mentioned a few times on this thread and others. I found the angle to be a great improvement over my Waterway MD1 - I was able to bend less at the knees and glide much more easily between strokes (on the glide phase of a deep dive with the flat-bladed waterway I need to have my knees bent a fair bit, not particularly hydrodynamic). The angle on the Hyper is about right for me, I am only a couple of degrees off being streamlined with my legs dead straight.
While the blade is significantly softer than the MD waterway when flexed by hand(it is 'Medium' stiffness, their second softest blade), underwater it feels almost identical in terms of stiffness. This is probably because the fin tip is several inches further from my feet and so is moved further by each kick. I'd hazard a guess this is a good thing (because you can have a lower amplitude kick for a given stroke width at the blade, lower amplitude = less resistance) but difficult to quantify, especially as I'm a freediver not a finswimmer - I have to go by subjective measures like how many metres I cover before getting contractions.
Speaking of which, I was getting contractions at about 65m on average with the new fin. Normally I get them around 50-55m, however this does vary between training sessions so I can't yet say the change has given me an extra 10m :martial it would be nice if it does though, 10m is pretty hard to come by these days...
Over medium distances I was feeling about average, slight leg burn setting in coming up to 100m which is normal for me. Again however, one training session is not enough to say anything for certain.
One downside of the fin is the footpockets - despite deliberately ordering a size on the small side of what I thought I'd need, they are quite loose. My toes are butting up against the end, but the tops of my feet are free to move a bit and this means that all the load goes on my toes - definitely not comfortable! I will have to look at gluing some rubber strips under the tops of the footpockets or wearing booties with thick rubber uppers to pack out the space and distribute some of the load to the arches of my feet. I'll talk to Leaderfins anyway, see what they recommend. They may have a quick solution so no point criticising the mono without looking into this first.
This fin is really for Constant Weight - otherwise I would have got the standard Hyper based on what people had said about the advantages of floating fins. I'm hoping to try it out in Lake Taupo this weekend. Hoisting all that weight out of the water on a duck dive should make it easier for me to get under without an arm-stroke, anyway
Oh, and the build quality is pretty decent. It's clear that most of the work was done by hand - the footpockets are made of several components that have been cut into shape and glued together, then ground down to the finished shape. It's not a fine work of art, but it's solidly built and the workmanship is more than good enough for its purpose. There are several spaces in the footpockets that fill with water and leak afterwards, hopefully there aren't any trapped air spaces that will compress at depth. However I suspect the volume of these, if they do exist, will be pretty negligible.
Pretty happy with the fin, I just hope I can get the footpocket issue sorted. every other aspect is fine, but that's not much help if I'm losing all my power through my feet sliding around. I reckon some sort of packing material will do the job.
Hi David,
thanks for sharing the info on the Hyper fin. It's Wal here, I was the one in the other lane in the same dynamic heat as you in the Taupo comp. ( I still don't know how you managed a dynamic in that very shallow 1.2m pool, given you are way taller then me. I struggled between not banging my knees on the bottom, and breaking the surface. :t )
Bit of a bummer about the footpockets, was hoping it would be a big step up from the waterway ones. Can please you please tell me what size footpockets you got and what normal shoe size you have ?
I've just put an order in but might still be able to change the footpocket size.
Cheers,
Wal
thanks for sharing the info on the Hyper fin. It's Wal here, I was the one in the other lane in the same dynamic heat as you in the Taupo comp. ( I still don't know how you managed a dynamic in that very shallow 1.2m pool, given you are way taller then me. I struggled between not banging my knees on the bottom, and breaking the surface. :t )
Bit of a bummer about the footpockets, was hoping it would be a big step up from the waterway ones. Can please you please tell me what size footpockets you got and what normal shoe size you have ?
I've just put an order in but might still be able to change the footpocket size.
Cheers,
Wal