AIDA ** course changes

[rxcnc2]

that wasn't very professional, was it? (especially when their motto is "replacing luck"

Not sure you'll get sponsorship from Suunto, but I'll vote you for president.

Haydn, what is a sylabus? I know I should have taken a longer english**

Seriously, it seems to me that one should put the students' interest first. I mean the quality of the course, not their drive times. Perhaps one could define what they are supposed to know for a given certification, and leave the instructor free to teach under his/her RESPONSABILITY whether they can do it in 48 hours non stop or in five days. But it would be good that a certificate means same knowledge and same skills whether you got it in Dahab or in a cold dark quar.. I mean german lake.

 

[kelp princess]

kars and kp ,

i keep reading my reply and i keep not seeing anything rude about it.
i find quite strange that u expect that any organization would go writing and justifying their internal affairs in a public forum.

as for sam and ben, they did get an answer but they didn't like it, this is why they keep posting in this thread.

the fact that i'm short in my answers is because many people tend to skip reading long posts, and since i'd like to have my points understood by as many readers as possible i keep it clear and short.

linda

hi linda - i understand wanting to be to concise and to the point - but being short is completely different - it is about delivery.

and let's say for arguments' sake that ben and sam didn't like the answer they received - all i am saying, is any training organization worth their salt should have a process of transparency and adaptability - because perhaps what works in one location doesn't work in another?

and the other point is that it is not about their internal affairs - it is about COMMUNICATING with the body of membership they are responsible to.

this is certainly not the first, nor is it the last thread, on many different subject matters, where i have read, heard, seen, utter unhappiness with regards to AIDA's lack of communication and their lack of effectively or consistently responding or unifying (think about judging discrepancies/lack of timely rule posting/ etc.)

this is not an AIDA bash it is a simple 'reminder" that their outreach can and should be improved.

you may disagree, you may not think they have to do a better job of communicating with everyone (not just their instructors) - but that's what makes the world go around - our lovely differences and our ability to share them :duh

cheers,

kp

 

[jome]

Hi,

I'm going to go out on limb here.

What do you guys think, if we'd set up a "issue tracking" system for AIDA education. I quickly prototyped one here:

http://jome.homelinux.net/codetrack/

for login use instructor/feedback

Now the idea is simply that instructors would be able to create "issues" in education. Then the ec will pick them up and update the life cycle status as they process the issue.

It will save a history of changes and display the status of each issue.

It's actually an software used for tracking bugs in software projects, but I think with a little tweaking should work fine for things like:
-education system/material
-rules
-mistakes in AIDA web page (wrong name spelling etc)

Please consider this absolutely unofficial, but give it a try and comment?

I think something like this would offer some transparency.

Ie. all instructors would at least know that:
-the issue was raised
-it was or was not processed by the ec (if the status is unchanged for very long, they can kindly remind us to do something about it)
-what the outcome was and how the ec reached that conclusion
-and the whole thing would be stored and a history of issues maintained, so in 2 years for example we might face the same request so we can show directly that this was already processed - and if needed open it up again.

P.S - I thought it to be such a grand idea I created a similar bug tracking thingy on the AIDA ranking page. So if you have issues with it, please use that (link is on the bottom of the page).

 

[sanso]

Absolutely brilliant, jome.

Issue tracking is exactly what can help a lot here and is very often used in similar environments, not only for software projects. I have found issue tracking an invaluable tool when dealing with customers or internal projects in the jobs I have had so far.
A system like this, when used right, helps with transparency, which is an issue with AIDA and many of the points brought up in this thread.

While some of the issues here are politics, and I would very much like to stay away from those, some other questions raised can be resolved by simply using the right tools for the job.

Very good idea, that.

 

[Kars]

Hi everyone,

First, thank you Jome for your good idea, key is that it should be very easy and economical, both in terms of time and money.

Linda, thanks for your efforts. I want to let you know that I do read through long posts, I do appreciate people trying to help, putting in the energy to explain.

I have to disagree though with your comparison of AIDA and a company. I happen to think that as a member of an association or club I'm PART of that association and therefore I've got the right to be informed, in order to know what's going on, what decisions are have been made and why, in order to be able to influence my representative(s) to further every member's interest and or my personal liking.
When I buy a product from a company I agree with a different set of terms, I'm not becoming a shareholder.


2* AIDA course:

I understand that time is an influence on the percentage of graduating students.

But, like you said it's also dependent on the criteria.

What abilities are necessary for every level?*
How many levels are desirable?
What tests have to be passed?*

In essence I have to agree with Haydn's statement's that skill and knowledge should be determining factor, not time.


Stavros, I would sent most people to you for your AIDA freediving courses, I think you really care. Not just having the students making the 'numbers', but also about students becoming examples themselves of how safe and gracious of freediving can be. I like your approach.

While you and many other great instructors give so much more, I think AIDA has to consider there are students who are shorter on time and/or budget and just want the basics to get -safely- started with freediving, and on their own refine the details.


The education level 's abilities and criteria has to derive from the AIDA teaching philosophy.*

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars


* I've looked for information on the AIDA international website, but apart from the CWT, static and DYN numbers I don't read anything about the other -vital- abilities for each level, nor about AIDA's education philosophy. Has anyone more information?

 

[sanso]

Okay, so by now, many people must have written to the EC - has anyone gotten a reply that carried information across as to what is happening?
I got a reply from Lotta that sounds like something is happening in the EC - but there is no information anywhere.

Just as a reminder to the EC: One of the major issues that people have with the EC is communication. (hint, hint)

I cannot believe that there is a dicussion of this magnificence going on and there is no statement from the EC on their own forum!

 

[samdive]

post deleted

 

[hunlee]

There is some info in the monthly newsletter the EC sent out. They sent it to inactive members aswell. (I'm as of yet inactive and got the shorter version.)
May shed some light nevertheless.

Hanli

 

[adolphin]

Hi there everyone ..

I do understand that this topic is more of a professional nature and meant for the instructors, I just thought I would express my thoughts as I am intending to do the instructor course and also since I've attended several courses (or training side by side with the 2* students).

As I have decided enrolling into AIDA instructor course and started preparing my self for that (both skills and theory) about a month a go I've started visualising what would I be doing to my students (I've started calling them MY STUDENTS already .. :t ) .. I've difinately seen myself giving them at least one more OW session (the OW dives for 2* are usually done as two dives in one weekend day or even one loooong dive session here in UAE, so I thought of making it two long dive session over two days of the weekend or even better two shorter dive session each day with a lunch break in the middle) and so the theory will be given on several evenings during the weekdays (after work). I know that this will rise the costs, but this is an issue which I will be deciding on after learning the exact costing scheme which is part of the instructor course material, but this plan came from actually seeing the AIDA courses going on infront of my eyes, I personally have taken the courses (2 * through 4 *) with istructors among the best that I could get (including sanso .. thank you very much .. ) .. still I found that (specially for the 2*) that the course period is really short for me (specialy for the diving skills and more specially for the depth and yes, I might be a special case myself because of the equalising difficulty), I think the time frame was designed for candidates who are already freedivers who want to get it safer and better, or spearfishers who want to improve their skills, or basically someone who wants to climb the lader towards being professional freediving instructor. I've seen real newbie freedivers struggling with the skills and a high rate of failure (I would say 20%) and half of those are really deciding to quit it while the other half would need to take extra supervised dives (on their own cost of course) to try to catch up. There are ofcourse special talents who could make every thing perfectly from the first dive (I witnessed that as well and they are such a delight for the eyes indeed). Now after reading Stavros post, I have a stronger base for my thoughts and would surely take that road .. (thank you Stavros) ..

Now this being said, I can understand the otherside of the problem, after all most of the freediving instructors are teaching courses as means of making living (or supporting their main job) and so comes the costing issue, also the time frame limitations depending on the country, so yes, giving the instructors the freedom to manage the time as long as they would reach to a good final result (including the passing rate) would be better off for AIDA at this critical stage (freediving booming all around the world), I can't figure out how are they going to make sure this is the case, BUT I don't think that making the course 2 and a half day would ensure success either.

Sorry for the long post, I kind of can't make it short I'm afraid ..

The most important impression that I've got from all posts in this thread is that all have a genuine care for freediving sport .. I think things are already getting better since the post first came out .. don't you all think the same ! .. :inlove

 

[island_sands]

I just passed 2 out of 3 exams. I find it strange that we dont get to know what our mistakes where.. we just have to redo it!

 

[Kars]

"I find it strange that we don't get to know what our mistakes where.. we just have to redo it!"

Did you ask for it?

Being sarcastic:
Maybe you're supposed to know what your mistakes were or would be - why did you choose to make them during your exam?

Maybe it's a sort of 'hidden' way to make some extra money like the costly exams for car driving here in the Netherlands? Anyway I think it depends on your instructor and the way you ask, I suspect it's not AIDA's policy nor regulation NOT to tell students what their mistakes have been.

I don't like gambling, and guessing my mistakes after an exam would come close to that since I cannot remember pages of questions and possible answers.

My advice: politely ask again, stating you want to learn of your mistakes - what instructor can be against that attitude?

Let us know how it turned out Sara.

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

 

[island_sands]

I did ask.. and was told that no-one else was given that info, so no, basically.

I'll just redo the 2nd exam again blindly and hope for the best.

 

[sanso]

I did ask.. and was told that no-one else was given that info, so no, basically.

I'll just redo the 2nd exam again blindly and hope for the best.

Well, that's not a very smart way of improving a system, is it?
I don't know what it is, but AIDA 2009 is an, errr , very buggy experience so far...

 

[pehtran]

I think AIDA sprecificaly requests from their instructors to debate all the answers with the student. Your comment is very vague: what kind of exam was it?.... who denied you the right to review the exam? ... strange. I think it si funny to accuse AIDA as an organisation for every little thing. Maybe I should blame AIDA everytime I loose my mouthfill. Miha

 

[trullalla]

sara,
you are doing an open book exam. being an instructor, you have the access to all the material (course materials, instructors guidelines, manual and so on)that you need in order to give the answers.
so to me it makes sense that you are not told your mistakes; if they tell you the mistake, there's no point to redo the exam, since you will automatically know the right answer
just my opinion...

 

[trullalla]

I think AIDA sprecificaly requests from their instructors to debate all the answers with the student. Your comment is very vague: what kind of exam was it?.... who denied you the right to review the exam? ... strange. I think it si funny to accuse AIDA as an organisation for every little thing. Maybe I should blame AIDA everytime I loose my mouthfill. Miha

miha, you can blame me for every time you lose your mouthfill

linda

 

[island_sands]

sara,
you are doing an open book exam. being an instructor, you have the access to all the material (course materials, instructors guidelines, manual and so on)that you need in order to give the answers.
so to me it makes sense that you are not told your mistakes; if they tell you the mistake, there's no point to redo the exam, since you will automatically know the right answer
just my opinion...

fair enough... i just wanna know where i went wrong!

 

[island_sands]

Further to this, the thing is... we can direct all questions to ec@... and i have. but isn't this a democracy? Surely input from the instructors, when you get lots of similar input, isn't it valid?

Or do we just do as we're told?

Not getting aggressive here, but just believe that learning by your mistakes is valid. But if you don't know what your mistakes were, it makes it more difficult.

Best
SL

 

[pehtran]

Island Sands, I am sorry but I did not know the background of your complaint - my post was mostly directed to Sanso's reply anyway.

And:

miha, you can blame me for every time you lose your mouthfill

Yes, Linda, I will demand a refund - I bought a mouthfill at your freedive shop a while ago and it doesn't seems to work properly.

Miha

 

[adolphin]

sara,
you are doing an open book exam. being an instructor, you have the access to all the material (course materials, instructors guidelines, manual and so on)that you need in order to give the answers.
so to me it makes sense that you are not told your mistakes; if they tell you the mistake, there's no point to redo the exam, since you will automatically know the right answer
just my opinion...

I could understand this point, yes. On the other hand, we can't look at Instructors as "Masters of all answers" .. I saw many instructors upon correcting exams go to other instructors (usually more experienced) and consult with them before deciding if an answer is correct or not, there will always be a catch here or there and this is not because AIDA exams are not well built (although it's another thing to look at), but all exams has this inheriting factor, it's because humans are very intelligent that you can't control the possible right and wrong answers they can create .. .. concerning this, I would back up the idea that answers get disussed with the instructors been tested .. on the other hand, if AIDA will not accept me to become an AIDA instructor because of my opinion then I will pull out my back up and stop being naughty .. .. rofl