Are there any fish you won't shoot?

[DivingNomad]

ratfish I never shoot at anymore. Very neat-looking fish, chimaera,

Both are under "ugly fish" category I won't shoot for me.

perch

I have never had freshwater fish that I liked.

 

[DiveHacker]

I get your point. You (in the general sense) are just a grain of sand in the desert. An ant in the giant nest. What possibly could you do that would impact the world? The actions of a single person are too insignificant to measure, unless of course we're talking about individuals like Trump or Thunberg. But you and me? We can only live our lives, preferably in the way society expects it from us. Drive your car, do your job, don't think and definitely don't try to change anything.

That it is stupide to outlaw something on micro level while it is legally done on industrial scale I wholeheartedly agree (still doesn't mean that you should do it too simply because they are). But on this we can have exactly this same discussion. Would you try to do anything to change that law? I mean, as a single person your voice won't be heard, so why not just give up?

You always have to factor in, if you don't shoot a fish, you (presumably) have to drive to the store, buy some hamburger meat that was grown on a chopped down piece of rainforest....

I find spearos to be extremely conscientious, as you all know. It is such a shame there is such a disconnect between the reality and what is perceived. I generally get the idea here in Thailand it is perfectly ok to eat a pork dinner produced by slamming a pig over the head with a hammer. But for some odd reason it is somehow violent to spear a fish. Anyway, in an ideal world I hope the perception comes closer to the reality.

 

[dcvf]

I 'shoot' nearly all the fishes…with my video camera …in freediving

 

[Johny Depth]

Death in a box! birds eye ,Man in a box !a funeral,Every sub has his Candy on Saturday or Sunday! a fish with out a prayer for always finding one of us their,.im glad im not a Fish

 

[rieses]

good discussion.
as a big game hunter first i understand the same dilema of shoot or not shoot.
sometimes choosing to eat a tag rather than harvest something that does not fit my goals for that hunt.
as a new spearo i find that i want to shoot plenty of fish as i learn to the hang of it and decide what i want to eat and pursue.
As i get more experience i will be more specific and target either certain species and or size or only shoot when i develop a specific method.
ultimately we all get to decide what is acceptable for us individually to shed blood for the food it provides and the challenge of the hunt.

 

[Mr. X]

I saw a documentary a while back which showed a new "trawler" being built, in Scotland or northern England. Didn't look that big. I was shocked to hear it would be capable of landing up to 4 tons of mackerel in a single net full - what on earth are theythinking! $$$$££££ Not sustainability for sure. By my reckoning, the entire catch for all the spearos in the UK put together will be but a fraction of that one net full in an entire year. Hard to feel sympathy for commercial fisherman when they have fished their quarry and themselves out of business several times in the past, both here in GB and abroad.

If that were not bad enough:

Trawler 14 times the size of UK fishing boats is plundering fish from British waters before Brexit

A super trawler 14 times the size of UK fishing boats is plundering thousands of tonnes of fish from British waters before Brexit, when the Government will be able to kick the vessel out.

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[DivingNomad]

I saw a documentary a while back which showed a new "trawler" being built, in Scotland or northern England. Didn't look that big. I was shocked to hear it would be capable of landing up to 4 tons of mackerel in a single net full - what on earth are theythinking! $$$$££££ Not sustainability for sure. By my reckoning, the entire catch for all the spearos in the UK put together will be but a fraction of that one net full in an entire year. Hard to feel sympathy for commercial fisherman when they have fished their quarry and themselves out of business several times in the past, both here in GB and abroad.

If that were not bad enough:

Trawler 14 times the size of UK fishing boats is plundering fish from British waters before Brexit

A super trawler 14 times the size of UK fishing boats is plundering thousands of tonnes of fish from British waters before Brexit, when the Government will be able to kick the vessel out.

www.telegraph.co.uk

And some locales worry about spearos spearing at night or using a flashlight while spearing, give me a break...

 

[snask]

Some off limits are octopus, cuttlefish, flying turbot, torpedo torpedo, boxfish, porcupine, Angel, rays, manta. Way to cool and beautiful species. I like to play with octopus, unfortunately far to easy to catch poor things. I feel they are far more intelligent than fish.

 

[Leander]

And some locales worry about spearos spearing at night or using a flashlight while spearing, give me a break...

I worry about anyone who doesn't put sustainability as a top priority.

 

[Kodama]

I worry about anyone who doesn't put sustainability as a top priority.

If sustainability is your top priority how can you spearfishing at all? Or eat meat for that matter?

I am all in favor of sustainability but we shouldn’t fool ourselves. The impact of spearos depends on the location you are hunting and the health of that eco system. Some places our impact will be significant in other places negligible.
Being aware of the vulnerability of large groupers and the potential impact on the reef i still harvest them! Yes indeed consciously and occasionally.

Let us unite and self regulate based on science not opinion.
You can make a difference by forming local interest groups and discuss, argue for proper regulations.

I certainly hope that industrial fishing will be restricted more. Imagine how much more fish there would be for all of us. Targeting spearos and making us look like villains is not doing anything for fish.

 

[DiveHacker]

I get the impression in the Mediterranean spearfishing is like what baseball is for Americans. It does seem like spearos do have a major impact.

I have gone ten years in the past in California shores without ever seeing a single spearo. Probably not common nowadays, but sometimes I wonder if people even know how unpopular spearfishing has been even just 10 years ago.

But anyway, I think even if you are "impacting" the environment, it is impactful in a positive way. There is a big difference between large commercial fishing operations, and a single guy coming home with two fish to feed his family twice a week in my opinion. One is just simply much more natural, eloquent and "buffered", while the other is the real culprit we should focus on. What governments should do if they really want sustainability is actually encourage people to catch their own fish through deregulation. You have to go buy an expensive license every time you want to catch a fish in California. It is absolutely insane. Even if we assume spearos are completely pillaging fish populations, I would argue it is a very good use of the resource.

What actually happens is the opposite of course. The corporations have money so they get the leniency. The individuals who would, without a doubt, only be helping the overall environment and sustainability are discouraged and regulated to a greater extent many times. It is almost exactly like the classic example in all the US textbooks of the American Indians hunting buffalo. It was only until the "corporations" showed up when the problems begin.

 

[Homerkp]

I saw a decent sized grouper the other day, a spotted one and I find them to be gorgeous. I did not take a shot probably because of the beauty.

I swam around and was not seeing much and started to really regret my decision. Does this happen to everyone?

Then I saw another spotted grouper later, smaller, and I shot it. I don't know what any of that means, but it was a good dinner.

I don’t feel that way. It might be because I’m a beginner and it’s still enough of a reward just to see a big, rare fish. I think I might shoot a grouper if I was with a group of friends, and to be able to add to the occasion. I feel the same about octopus.

You always have to factor in, if you don't shoot a fish, you (presumably) have to drive to the store, buy some hamburger meat that was grown on a chopped down piece of rainforest....

That’s exactly my reasoning. A friend will tell me “how can you shoot the animals”. Then I think, if you eat meat then an animal is suffering, but you’re outsourcing the burden to someone else. The least we can do is own some of the responsibility. Plus we can be quicker about it.

good discussion.
as a big game hunter first i understand the same dilema of shoot or not shoot.
sometimes choosing to eat a tag rather than harvest something that does not fit my goals for that hunt.
as a new spearo i find that i want to shoot plenty of fish as i learn to the hang of it and decide what i want to eat and pursue.
As i get more experience i will be more specific and target either certain species and or size or only shoot when i develop a specific method.
ultimately we all get to decide what is acceptable for us individually to shed blood for the food it provides and the challenge of the hunt.

That’s how I felt starting out too. I hit different small things to get the lay of the land and taste for myself. Good for the education I guess, target practice, getting a feel for the environment. It didn’t take long for me to set my goals.

 

[Leander]

target practice

That's what the Germanos are for. For those taking offense in that remark, it's the Greek common name for the Dusky- and Marbled Spinefoot.

I think I might shoot a grouper if I was with a group of friends

Can you explain me the reason for this obsession with groupers in Greece? It's not a fish that takes a lot of skill to catch. It tastes good and looks impressive, that's for sure, but seeing that people here put every fish, whatever the species, on the charcoal, I doubt that the taste would be the main reason.
* I'm still very new in Greece, so there's a lot of subcultural stuff I don't fully understand yet. Like smoking during dinner, for example (fork in one hand, cig in the other).

 

[DivingNomad]

It's not a fish that takes a lot of skill to catch.

It is probably the stupidest fish in the Med. in contrast to Dentex.

I'm still very new in Greece, so there's a lot of subcultural stuff I don't fully understand yet. Like smoking during dinner, for example (fork in one hand, cig in the other).

That is terrible indeed.

 

[Homerkp]

That's what the Germanos are for. For those taking offense in that remark, it's the Greek common name for the Dusky- and Marbled Spinefoot.


Can you explain me the reason for this obsession with groupers in Greece? It's not a fish that takes a lot of skill to catch. It tastes good and looks impressive, that's for sure, but seeing that people here put every fish, whatever the species, on the charcoal, I doubt that the taste would be the main reason.
* I'm still very new in Greece, so there's a lot of subcultural stuff I don't fully understand yet. Like smoking during dinner, for example (fork in one hand, cig in the other).

We don't have germanous here in the korinthiako just yet, at least not in my area. To think I thought those were all variations of the salpi when I first saw them.

No idea man. For me it's just a big impressive fish. I heard they're good for soup too, but I'm just trying to find fish I can filet. I said I think I'll avoid them, but if I had a group of friends and I could add to the occasion by providing a big fish, I would. I'd do the same if I saw a big octopus, which I always leave alone. I'd rather catch a dentex, or an amberjack but my hp is still too low.

 

[Homerkp]

It is probably the stupidest fish in the Med. in contrast to Dentex.


That is terrible indeed.

Everyone calls it a stupid fish. I like to think it's just too curious and trusting for its own good. Tiny fish dart away, does that mean they're smarter than the grouper?

 

[DivingNomad]

Everyone calls it a stupid fish. I like to think it's just too curious and trusting for its own good. Tiny fish dart away, does that mean they're smarter than the grouper?

If your curiosity and trustiness causes you to end up on the BBQ as somebody's dinner, then you are not so smart. The fish that dart away are certainly wiser and smarter.

 

[Homerkp]

I think for the small ones it comes down to instinct. I meant smart in terms of cognitive intelligence. I think it would make the grouper more curious, which ultimately bites him in the ass. It could also have to do with it being a top predator in some environments.
Cool video:

 

[snask]

If your curiosity and trustiness causes you to end up on the BBQ as somebody's dinner, then you are not so smart. The fish that dart away are certainly wiser and smarter.

Dolphins are considered smart right? But it's not their brains that decide if they end up dead or not, it's human law. In some areas they will not be killed, in some parts they are massacred seasonally. And this has nothing to do with smart or stupid on the dolphins part. Humans decide who ends up on the BBQ.

 

[Kodama]

I agree that the apex predator dictates it’s will.

There was at least one study that showed how fish behavior changes because of spearfishing pressure.
Putting things in perspective I would not call these fish to be stupid too quickly.